RB Fines

Whispered

I've never been approached, and I don't look very hard :P, although I do live in a country-ish area. Actually I was speaking to a guard 2 days ago with the dogs, he pulled in and I thought "oh here we go" but he was asking about something else and said they were "grand fellas". I wonder if it was because I'm a girl on her own and they were walking/sitting like little gentlemen?.

Do you manage to get out and about with Brook without a lead for some exploring time? Does she enjoy it a lot more than a normal walk?

Interested to see if owners believe a dog can be totally happy spending their entire life on lead. I do think they can be, but I think it's a lot harder for their human to ensure they are. I also think that laws like the ones we have create a lot of problems, you end up with people going around with dogs who simply cannot, legally, be correctly socialised.

lrushe

I try to get her 'off the beaten track' as much as possible but I have a 15month old little boy now so alot of times I have to stick to places I can push a buggy so that's been limiting me lately.

Brook also has epilepsy so I find a good run helps keep her fits to a minium as it acts as a de-stressers. I'm hoping this walking with the Dogmatic doesn't stress her out enough to increase her fitting.

FoxyVixen

I'm lucky that my girl has no inhibitions a all wearing the dogmatic. She took to it like a duck to water, only 20mins to adjust when she realised she was out walking with it on and passed no heed.

However with it and her having a double coat, it is difficult to ensure she doesn't overheat too much on walks. Again I'm lucky living in the country having lakes/rivers for her to lie in if she cools down. I can tell if she needs a dip as she's learnt to inform me when she needs it. However on warmer days where I shorten the walk, I get a "ah come on" face She doesn't know what's right for her

My girl spends most her time on lead out of the house though I do have an open shed for her to explore as well as following her on lead around certain trails. That way I feel she's satisfied her desires as well as mental stimulation.

HOWEVER!!!

Even with a head collar people respond to her differently as well as her being incapable of fully communicating with her own kind. This further imposes my responsibility as an RB owner to ensure these interactions don't affect her view on her environment and interactions. Much like re-training of guide dogs in this country!

A lot of unnecessary responsibilities imposed on RB owners

DBB

Brook also has epilepsy so I find a good run helps keep her fits to a minium as it acts as a de-stressers. I'm hoping this walking with the Dogmatic doesn't stress her out enough to increase her fitting.

This brings up a potential point lrushe.... I know there's no mention of it in the legislation, and it probably has never been tested, but what if... And I'm warning you that I'm thinking aloud here!... What if an RB has a condition which its vet will attest to being put at risk by wearing a muzzle?
For instance, a dog with cardiac or respiratory problems would be seriously compromised by having to wear one.
It'd be interesting to see what'd happen, wouldn't it? Any takers? :-D

miller50841

I find this funny why aren't they showing force in the city there are drug dealers and addicts now out with bull dog's, German shepards and so on.
Dublin city and as usual no Garda presence so no change there.

lrushe

DBB wrote: »

This brings up a potential point lrushe.... I know there's no mention of it in the legislation, and it probably has never been tested, but what if... And I'm warning you that I'm thinking aloud here!... What if an RB has a condition which its vet will attest to being put at risk by wearing a muzzle?
For instance, a dog with cardiac or respiratory problems would be seriously compromised by having to wear one.
It'd be interesting to see what'd happen, wouldn't it? Any takers? :-D

It is a v.reasonable point, however if reasonable points were taken into account there wouldn't be this legislation in the first place.
Unfortunately dogs like this just aren't seen as important enough to create any grey areas for.

are you serious

miller50841 wrote: »

I find this funny why aren't they showing force in the city there are drug dealers and addicts now out with bull dog's, German shepards and so on.
Dublin city and as usual no Garda presence so no change there.

Miller, not all Gardaí would be aware of what breed is what. I can guarantee if you were to get 100 Gardaí and you then put in front of them a Dogue de Bordeaux and a Bull Mastiff you would be lucky if you could get 5 that could tell you which is which.
Then if even 5 had ever seen a Rhodesian Ridgeback i'd also be shocked, never mind getting one to tell you the difference between a Japanese Akita and an American Akita the later of which is not on the list...

Your comment says German Shepherd, fair enough they are easy to distinguish, but ya get my point.
Bull dogs are another tough one, so many bull breeds look alike when not familiar with or if you do not like dogs.

As for Gardaí not being there to stop drug dealing going on, out of interest do you report this when you see it?
Its not just the city centre that has drug issues or drug dealers with dogs...


DBB,
I would say in relation to your dog with the potential health issue, you would be told muzzle the dog or don't bring it out! Unless of course you were up before an understanding judge, then ya might get some kind of warning at best!

miller50841

are you serious wrote: »

Miller, not all Gardaí would be aware of what breed is what. I can guarantee if you were to get 100 Gardaí and you then put in front of them a Dogue de Bordeaux and a Bull Mastiff you would be lucky if you could get 5 that could tell you which is which.
Then if even 5 had ever seen a Rhodesian Ridgeback i'd also be shocked, never mind getting one to tell you the difference between a Japanese Akita and an American Akita the later of which is not on the list...

Your comment says German Shepherd, fair enough they are easy to distinguish, but ya get my point.
Bull dogs are another tough one, so many bull breeds look alike when not familiar with or if you do not like dogs.

As for Gardaí not being there to stop drug dealing going on, out of interest do you report this when you see it?
Its not just the city centre that has drug issues or drug dealers with dogs...


DBB,
I would say in relation to your dog with the potential health issue, you would be told muzzle the dog or don't bring it out! Unless of course you were up before an understanding judge, then ya might get some kind of warning at best!

I was standing beside where they were dealing on Eden Quay and yes reported it as I walked away from the dealers and the cops just smiled and drove off up the road.

mitosis

DBB wrote: »

This brings up a potential point lrushe.... I know there's no mention of it in the legislation, and it probably has never been tested, but what if... And I'm warning you that I'm thinking aloud here!... What if an RB has a condition which its vet will attest to being put at risk by wearing a muzzle?
For instance, a dog with cardiac or respiratory problems would be seriously compromised by having to wear one.
It'd be interesting to see what'd happen, wouldn't it? Any takers? :-D

If you can't comply with the law don't take it out in public?

Nody

DBB wrote: »

This brings up a potential point lrushe.... I know there's no mention of it in the legislation, and it probably has never been tested, but what if... And I'm warning you that I'm thinking aloud here!... What if an RB has a condition which its vet will attest to being put at risk by wearing a muzzle?
For instance, a dog with cardiac or respiratory problems would be seriously compromised by having to wear one.
It'd be interesting to see what'd happen, wouldn't it? Any takers? :-D

Told to muzzle it anyway or don't take it out; lets be honest here that dog care etc. is not exactly a top priority of the country administrators (as seen in the legislation passed and general lack of knowledge and/or care in general).

DBB

I think ye may be missing the point. It's hardly feasible not to bring the dog out... If anyone posted that here they'd be lynched for being cruel!
What I wondered was, and to be honest the question is somewhat rhetorical because nobody can answer it definitively, nor has it been tested in court that I know of, would it be possible for a dog to obtain a medical exemption from wearing a muzzle... When I say exemption, that means that the dog can go out in public unmuzzled.
There are some categories of RBs that are exempt, so there is, I'd suggest, a certain potential scope for medical exemption too. The owner would have to carry documentation to that effect obviously, but I don't necessarily think it's an idea that's dead in the water for some owners.

IvySlayer

I hate these laws to satisfy dogooders.

I own a Westie right now and would love a GSD one day, but what's the point considering the taboo

Aru

DBB wrote: »

This brings up a potential point lrushe.... I know there's no mention of it in the legislation, and it probably has never been tested, but what if... And I'm warning you that I'm thinking aloud here!... What if an RB has a condition which its vet will attest to being put at risk by wearing a muzzle?
For instance, a dog with cardiac or respiratory problems would be seriously compromised by having to wear one.
It'd be interesting to see what'd happen, wouldn't it? Any takers? :-D

A dog with serious heart or respiratory illness can still wear a well fitted basket muzzle as they allow them to pant so its a moot point....and I Have seen seriously compromised dogs in vets having to wear the tighter muzzles due to temperment so its hard to argue that point. if its a behavioural problem ie dog stresses with the muzzle on then training would be the solution not ignoring the law....so it would be very difficult to argue that case of some restricted breeds being exempted on medical grounds....especially as there are very few scenarios where a muzzle should not be used in the vets and these are near death scenarios..ie severe respiratory distress but that level of ill dog will not be out in public anyway....

DBB

I'm not saying to ignore the law! I saying that the owner could, possibly, get exemption from the law. I wish people would read what I'm saying, and not post stuff I have not said!
Whilst a dog who is compromised re respiratory problems, you might get away with short-term muzzling to stop the dog biting in a vet surgery. But let me assure you, I have lived with a dog with chronic respiratory problems, and muzzling would have caused major problems for him... Yet he could still go out for short walks, which he thoroughly enjoyed, for his last year of life.
I asked my vet would it be appropriate to muzzle a dog like this during exercise, and she utterly rejected the idea.
It was just an idea, as I said, but nobody here has convinced me that it would not be potentially acceptable in court if the vet went as expert witness. I don't suppose we'll ever find out.

are you serious

DBB,
Maybe it's that people are just not answering your situation the way you want the question answered...?

We can all only speculate in what may happen in court if an incident like this were to come up, the law is the law you've pointed this out many times in many different posts yet now your questioning it with a potential situation that hasn't been tested and your backing yourself as your saying its a rhetorical question and that nobody has given an answer that has you convinced..

if the dog is on the RB list it has to wear the muzzle health issues or not. Most people in this country are anti RB list dog

To these people these are horrible dogs and the judges of this country have to and can only act within the law, if your caught in a public place where the RB list law applies then plain and simple your playing with fire, vets letter or not.

There is a category that is exempt??
What category in the RB list are exempt, and what are they exempt from?

are you serious

I'll give you an example of something that could happen..

RB dog with respiratory problems gets all clear from vet to walk with no muzzle.

RB out on walk badly bites member of public.

Owner taken to court..

Owner gives medical report in to court judge on the day..

Plain and simple this RB dog/owner will be found at fault and I would bet everything I owned on that.

RB gets put down, owner then sues vet for stupid letter that contradicted RB list law, vet then has to pay compensation to dog owner, no vet ever again gives out a silly letter to an owner of a dog on the RB list ðŸ‘

borderlinemeath

are you serious wrote: »

DBB,
Maybe it's that people are just not answering your situation the way you want the question answered...?

We can all only speculate in what may happen in court if an incident like this were to come up, the law is the law you've pointed this out many times in many different posts yet now your questioning it with a potential situation that hasn't been tested and your backing yourself as your saying its a rhetorical question and that nobody has given an answer that has you convinced..

if the dog is on the RB list it has to wear the muzzle health issues or not. Most people in this country are anti RB list dog

To these people these are horrible dogs and the judges of this country have to and can only act within the law, if your caught in a public place where the RB list law applies then plain and simple your playing with fire, vets letter or not.

There is a category that is exempt??
What category in the RB list are exempt, and what are they exempt from?

Working/police/search and rescue dogs? Usually German Shepherds I would imagine. Sure the law is always above the law!

DBB

are you serious wrote: »

There is a category that is exempt??
What category in the RB list are exempt, and what are they exempt from?

If you read down to the bottom of the 1998 Regulations, you'll see the exempted dogs. Customs, guards, army, fisheries, search and rescue etc.

As for the owner of an RB waving a letter at court, I hadn't intended for my 'what if', thinking aloud theory to be interpreted as a sub-legal, private arrangement between a vet and an owner. There would, of course, have to be precedence set, in the form of case law. In the uk, their equivalent of RBs can be exempted from their ban under a number of circumstances, though in their case it is the difference between life and death for the dog. But it's the same idea, and I'm not aware of any owner running to sue the qualified behaviourist who assessed their dog for the exemption in cases where the dog ends up biting somebody post-assessment.
I think people seem to have taken up my theory as if it was a hard and fast suggestion, despite my initial post making it clear that it was just an idea, just a what if. But it was a what if based loosely on what happens in the uk.
Perhaps I just didn't make that clear enough.

FoxyVixen

Sorry if I'm throwing this off topic, but what is the job of a dog regarding the fisheries industry? I assume it's guarding the stocks in the warehouse? Can't really envisage a German Shephard or Ridgeback catching fish in its jaws for the fishermen :pac:

DBB

FoxyVixen wrote: »

Sorry if I'm throwing this off topic, but what is the job of a dog regarding the fisheries industry? I assume it's guarding the stocks in the warehouse? Can't really envisage a German Shephard or Ridgeback catching fish in its jaws for the fishermen :pac:

Lol, no, it's specifically the State fisheries service! Fisheries protection work on rivers, lakes, coast etc.

FoxyVixen

:pac::pac: LMAO :pac::pac:

Yes that would make much more sense :rolleyes:, shows how much I know of that part of the countrys initiatives :pac:

Still though, a fishing German Shepherd!! I reckon I'm on to a great childrens book idea :pac:

are you serious

borderlinemeath wrote: »

[/B]

Working/police/search and rescue dogs? Usually German Shepherds I would imagine. Sure the law is always above the law!

I'll get my coat and leave

(I knew this but just wasnt thinking straight at all, I blame the heat)

tk123

Guys as a civil servant does the dog warden only work business hours? A friend saw him booking people coming out of the dunes in Dollymount with their dogs off lead but can't remember if it was a weekday or weekend morning?

DBB

I'd imagine each set of staff within the public service have different ways of working. Some work weekends and unsocial hours (8pm to 8am), whilst others have flexitime, and others are 9 to 5ers. It all depends upon what job they have within the public service.
But I don't know which applies to dog wardens! Aren't the Dublin pounds open on Saturday mornings? Maybe the wardens do a half day on Saturdays?

Kukey

Where my Sister lives,she has seen a security firm acting as Dog Wardens in the evening times.They were going over to anyone with a RB off lead.I also heard of someone being fined for walking a RB off lead and unmuzzled at night time.I think when Wardens clock out at 5 o clock,the security firm takes over patrolling different areas.

FoxyVixen

Why is a security firm acting as dog wardens?

tk123

FoxyVixen wrote: »

Why is a security firm acting as dog wardens?

Well in Dublin CC parks anyways the park warden job has been outsourced to Manguard so they have part time park wardens who are based in the park who would empty the bins and open/lock the gates and then 2 guys in a van who drive around each park for a few mins a few times a day. They might tell you to put the dog back on the lead but they're not the dog warden (his van says dog warden on it and has a fan on top. )
Some of them will say ignore a group of kids drinking and causing trouble and head to the dogs...some will ignore the dogs and play a siren at the troublemakers and run them out of the bushes etc so it depends whos on. They're usually in the park around the same times each day so you can time your walks if you need to.
I could have used a dog warden last night when a group of kids were beating the crap out of a young husky mix. :mad:

FoxyVixen

Oh right, I wasn't aware of that set up. Sounds a little inconsistent in how they operate. You'd think they'd have a code of ethics or protocol structure in place.

Poor husky The things people do to animals. Cowards wouldn't try it with someone their own size.

tk123

FoxyVixen wrote: »

Poor husky The things people do to animals. Cowards wouldn't try it with someone their own size.

'he doesn't listen' was their excuse! :mad: One of the people with us tore strips off them and rightly so! I'll never let the little sh1ts touch my dogs* again after that.


* :P lol that's the first time I've written that - 'my dogs' :pac: (puppy coming home on fri)

FoxyVixen

Oh stop, came across an idiot once who kept slapping his PUPPY about the head because he wasn't paying attention. It was a puppy and incredibly excited on seeing another dog was all. Everything was new to it. Told him to cop himself on and teach the dog how to behave, not slap it about the head as if it was a boxing toy. Poor thing didn't know why it was getting smacks!!

Ohh new puppy What ya getting