Praveen Halappanavar says he has received abusive letters

Gatling

As much as his wife died from complications of a miscarriage ,
Where was all the other investigation's into deaths due to pregnancy complications ,
As for his TV interview "I'm not Irish so Irish laws don't apply to me " turned me off the whole situation

Someone I know well works with Praveen and he is supposed to be a nice decent guy.

Some of the posts on this thread are disgusting. The man has lost his wife and his child. I can't even comprehend either, never mind both.

Imo, he's handled the whole thing with unbelievable dignity and should be commended for it. Instead you have internet tough guys/racists on here posting rubbish.

I'd bundle those posters in with the scum who has been sending him hate mail tbh.

Sarky

The loonier elements of the anti-choice groups were calling him a liar as soon as the original Savita story broke. Not surprised there were a few people who thought nothing of lowering themselves to this muck.

Poor guy, can't imagine what this has been like for him. I'm glad he's been strong enough to keep fighting his corner though. Ireland is long overdue for someone like that.

Gatling

kylith wrote: »

The legal position was unclear, and the midwife admitted that she had told him 'there's nothing we can do, this is a Catholic country'. That is a denial on religious grounds.

In the context of a discussion where it was stated in India you could get an abortion ,people have an awful habit of leaving that part out only shouting its a Catholic country

Lady Chatterton

Gatling wrote: »

As much as his wife died from complications of a miscarriage ,
Where was all the other investigation's into deaths due to pregnancy complications ,
As for his TV interview "I'm not Irish so Irish laws don't apply to me " turned me off the whole situation

I'm sure he was too impressed with the midwife's - 'Ireland is a Catholic country' remark either.

Gatling

MrsD007 wrote: »

I'm sure he was too impressed with midwife's - 'Ireland is a Catholic country' remark either.

In the context of a discussion where savita said in India her religion allowed abortion

Koptain Liverpool

wretcheddomain wrote: »

I'm actually pro-choice. But anyway, I don't wish to divert the thread any further concerning my views given as the OP suggested, it was about the hate mail, which I'm fervently against in all its forms by the way, and I reject the comments made from some other posters that I may have sent a hate mail. That's something I'd never do and completely against given the circumstances.



I completely understand that and think there's truth to it. The problem I have is that while there's a chance you're right, nobody is even willing to contemplate that there's a chance, however small, that it's not right. Instead, accusations of 's***' and other derogatory comments get thrown around. People should be open to the possibility however disturbing it may be. Going back to the Joe O'Reilly case, I'm sure many people would have been accused of being sick and twisted for suggesting he could have killed his wife, but alas, they were vindicated. All I'm saying is be open to the possibility instead of shooting down everyone who offers an alternative perspective to this tragedy.

Go and fukc yourself you absolute cretin.

Lady Chatterton

Gatling wrote: »

In the context of a discussion where savita said in India her religion allowed abortion

The midwife felt the need to profusely apologise for the remark all the same.

Corkfeen

wretcheddomain wrote: »

But everyone else's view is also based on a hunch, only it's the 'correct' view to take regardless, 'Bandwagon Effect', and all that. People will always gravitate for the consensus view without considering the alternative given its unpopularity. I didn't deliberately arrive at an unpopular perspective but that's the view I arrived at upon watching the interview and several other appearances before that.

You described his actions as morally reprehensible that in itself is not a reasonable point. Why is it any of your business to assess his level of grief? Your alternate view seems to be solely for the purpose of having an alternate view based on some racist assumptions by the way.

kylith

Gatling wrote: »

In the context of a discussion where it was stated in India you could get an abortion ,people have an awful habit of leaving that part out only shouting its a Catholic country

Does that matter? She was still denied an abortion which may have saved her life because of a religious edict.

Sarky

To be fair, the midwife did apologise and explain the intent behind her comment, which was benign, just poorly phrased. It's not fair to bring her back in to this.

Lady Chatterton

Sarky wrote: »

To be fair, the midwife did apologise and explain the intent behind her comment, which was benign, just poorly phrased. It's not fair to bring her back in to this.

Praveen and Savita's parents have singled that midwife out for praise. Her testimony at the inquest was a source of comfort to them apparently. If she hadn't admitted that she made the 'Catholic Country' remark they wouldn't have been able to prove it was said.

kylith

Sarky wrote: »

To be fair, the midwife did apologise and explain the intent behind her comment, which was benign, just poorly phrased. It's not fair to bring her back in to this.

I would like to make it clear that I don't assign any blame to the midwife. Her hands were tied by law.

MrsD007

MrsD007 wrote: »

Praveen and Savita's parents have singled that midwife out for praise. Her testimony at the inquest was a source of comfort to them apparently. If she hadn't admitted that she made the 'Catholic Country' remark they wouldn't have been able to prove it was said.

People with agenda's won't mention this though.

KKkitty

This country will be divided as far as abortion is concerned for many years to come. In Savita's case she shouldn't have been left as long as she was before she died simple as. Nutters will do what they do no matter what sadly but when you have a highly emotive case like this it's awful to think people would stoop so low.

Cody Pomeray

MrsD007 wrote: »

Praveen and Savita's parents have singled that midwife out for praise. Her testimony at the inquest was a source of comfort to them apparently. If she hadn't admitted that she made the 'Catholic Country' remark they wouldn't have been able to prove it was said.

Also worth bearing in mind that Praveen Halappanavar has said, in relation to his legal case, that if people just agreed to come forward and tell the truth, there will be no need for a court hearing. This sort of debunks the idea that he's in this for the money. He also pointed out that there are Hospital staff who have never come forward.

seligehgit

I was really impressed with the interview he did with Miriam o Callaghan today,he showed quite a lot of sympathy towards the staff of UCHG.

Dostoevsky

Sarky wrote: »

To be fair, the midwife did apologise and explain the intent behind her comment, which was benign, just poorly phrased. It's not fair to bring her back in to this.

100% agree with this. It's so rare that people come out with their hands up admitting guilt for mistakes, it was refreshing to see that midwife be honest and humble about it. I actually felt sorry for her.

LuciusPax

I think whoopsadaisydoodles hit the nail on the head with his post. Praveen Halappanaver has lost a wife and a child in tragic circumstances and should quite rightly have his opinion heard. What I find bizarre is that people have sent letters to the man! What is going through the heads of those people, to sit down and produce a hand-written letter filled with such bile. It takes a worrying strain of dedication and hatred to sit down and construct a letter such as that.

the immortals

wretcheddomain wrote: »

While I'm fully against those abusive letters he has received, I do think there's something suspicious about him. When I watched the interview with Miriam O'Callaghan, I got the distinct impression he didn't really 'care' as much as a husband should do. He didn't even appear despondent. I'm aware that organised marriages occur within their faith and so it wouldn't surprise me if this is how it happened and would explain his lack of emotion for the situation. I knew he would eventually sue the HSE for cash and this fits perfectly within my model that he is merely thinking of his own pockets to capitalise on her death. I know that sounds bad given the tragic circumstances in which she died but if I had a wife that died in such circumstances, I personally would not want to gain a cent from it. I think there's something morally reprehensible, as well as suspicious, to gain cash at the expense of a death.

Having read through this thread and your replys in particular, I am convinced there is something wrong with you, my friends wife is dying of cancer, she is in her early thirties, gorgeous and a college lecturer, I had a drink with him the other night, he seemed fine, we had a laugh even, the man is broken hearted but for a few hours the other night by your twisted, wierd, scary, logic he perhaps is not broken hearted at all, you should be ashamed of yourself,

Nodin

Gatling wrote: »

As much as his wife died from complications of a miscarriage ,
Where was all the other investigation's into deaths due to pregnancy complications ,
As for his TV interview "I'm not Irish so Irish laws don't apply to me " turned me off the whole situation

You've a link to some source for that?

Gatling

Nodin do a search on YouTube for the interview with Miriam O'Callaghan he clearly states it himself ,

Cavehill Red

General General wrote: »

Do we now? & what are you basing that opinion on?

On standard medical practice in this country. Let me reverse the question: on what grounds do you believe we do not have a thorough investigatory methodology in place for complaints about medical malpractice in Ireland?
Feel free to rubbish the various complaints and investigatory procedures of the IMO, ICGP, HSE and the courts while doing so, if you care to.

Bannasidhe

Cavehill Red wrote: »

This is what concerns me about this from the very start. I fully think that Ireland ought to have worked out its legal position on abortion decades ago, and I also think that any death of a healthy young woman in an Irish hospital warrants a significant and conclusive investigation.
What I find a bit off about this particular case is how the husband is conducting his affairs via the media. I suspect he would have much more support and credibility if he did not seek to blacken the names of medical professionals, and now the Irish people, via the press but instead took his concerns firstly to the relevant authorities.

How exactly is he blackening the names of the medical profession by insisting they account for their failures?

How is he blackening the name of the Irish people by insisting that those same 'relevant authorities' be seen to be accountable?

I assume by 'relevant authorities' you mean that same HSE who caused his wife's death, who couldn't even say how many young people in their care committed suicide and are generally acknowledged as being not fit for purpose?

If my OH died because of HSE negligence I would use every resource available to force them into explaining what happened and ensuring those who were at fault were sanctioned.

I am an Irish person and I applaud Praveen Halappanavar.

He is a hero imho.

Femme_Fatale

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If my OH died because of HSE negligence I would use every resource available to force them into explaining what happened and ensuring those who were at fault were sanctioned.

That means you'd be looking for money to live it up in Vegas! (Rather than counselling expenses, travel expenses for you and family overseas to visit one another, savings for the future - one less thing to worry about when you're already under massive emotional strain). I'm on to you... :mad:

Bannasidhe

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

That means you'd be looking for money to live it up in Vegas! I'm on to you... :mad:

No amount of money would persuade me to ever go to Vegas.

wp_rathead

Bannasidhe wrote: »

No amount of money would persuade me to ever go to Vegas.

I dunno I quite like this law:

venere.com wrote:

If your neighbor’s dog is keeping you awake at night and annoys you no end, you better not shoot him if he is in his own yard, and you are living in Las Vegas. (Wait till he comes out before you take your revenge.) This precaution is necessary, because in that state, your neighbor can legally hang you if you have made the mistake of shooting the dog when he is in his owner’s yard. So better buy those ear muffs, or change your house. You will escape the temptation of shooting the dog and risking your own life.

Ghost Buster

wretcheddomain wrote: »

How would you feel if you lost a very young successful wife along with your baby?

That's an awful lot to lose.

I don't believe anyone can be so calm and reserved, especially so soon after it happened. Not even an apathetic person could be so calm and almost indifferent. It just doesn't look sincere, sorry, but it really doesn't.

I take it you make these observations from your experiences on how you reacted the last time you lost a loved one in a high profile manner which lead to national debate, governmental action and national tv appearances. Good for you. Personally I have not a clue how I or anyone I know would react.

endacl

Ghost Buster wrote: »

I take it you make these observations from your experiences on how you reacted the last time you lost a loved one in a high profile manner which lead to national debate, governmental action and national tv appearances. Good for you. Personally I have not a clue how I or anyone I know would react.

Well, in fairness, he did offer the O'Reilly case to ....

....to ......


No. Sorry. It was a stupid comparison.

Cavehill Red

Bannasidhe wrote: »

How exactly is he blackening the names of the medical profession by insisting they account for their failures?

He made a series of allegations via the media that subsequently proved on investigation to be untrue. Some of them remain propagated even on this thread. He could have awaited the outcome of the series of investigations immediately convened before commenting, but chose not to, and got some of his facts inevitably wrong.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

How is he blackening the name of the Irish people by insisting that those same 'relevant authorities' be seen to be accountable?

He is blackening the name of the Irish people in a number of ways, the latest of which is his new allegation of receiving threats via the mail. Again, there is a standard procedure for investigation which he has decided to ignore in favour of garnering media coverage for as yet unsupported allegations. My concern is this: if he is genuinely receiving letters and is genuinely upset about them, why take them to the Irish Times instead of An Garda Siochana? There's nothing Kitty Holland can do about such letter writers after all.

wretcheddomain

Cavehill Red wrote: »

He is blackening the name of the Irish people in a number of ways, the latest of which is his new allegation of receiving threats via the mail. Again, there is a standard procedure for investigation which he has decided to ignore in favour of garnering media coverage for as yet unsupported allegations. My concern is this: if he is genuinely receiving letters and is genuinely upset about them, why take them to the Irish Times instead of An Garda Siochana? There's nothing Kitty Holland can do about such letter writers after all.

Even I wouldn't say this.

Your post reeks of paranoia OP.

Nermal

Cavehill Red wrote: »

He is blackening the name of the Irish people

No, just the name of religious fundamentalists. Keep it up Praveen, they're a rapidly dying force and your wife's death was not in vain.

Femme_Fatale

Well I don't see how there's reason to believe he didn't alert the gardai... unless you want to believe it (which I strongly suspect you do).

And his thinking is not going to be as rational as that of someone whose wife hasn't needlessly died less than a year ago.

Plus I wouldn't blame him for publicly calling out those bullies - not as if he isn't under enough strain already.

But again, his wife only died and he's just looking for money. Cavehill, do you ever have compassion?

Cavehill Red

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Even I wouldn't say this.

Your post reeks of paranoia OP.

I'm not the OP, and I fail to see any paranoia in what I wrote. It's a simple point, fundamentally. If you receive abusive or threatening correspondence, you can ignore it or take action. If you are so disturbed that you choose to act, you ought to take it to those who are empowered to investigate, which is the police. I don't see what purpose is served by taking this to the press other than to attempt to widen the sphere of blame outwards to encompass the Irish people in general. If there is a productive purpose for making such unsupported allegations in the press, then I'm open to hearing what that might be.

endacl

Unfortunately it was. The legislation currently under discussion was recommended, and has been avoided by successive governments since the 1990s. We never should have heard about that poor couple and what our national cowardice has forced them to endure. This thread should not exist.

End of.

Edit: response to Nernal. Forgot to quote...

Cody Pomeray

Cavehill Red wrote: »

if he is genuinely receiving letters and is genuinely upset about them, why take them to the Irish Times instead of An Garda Siochana?

He publicly raised the matter in one media interview, but I don't know why you're assuming that he didn't inform the Gardaí.

This is the first time I have seen the victim of hate mail being criticised in this manner, despite other public figures having been subject to hate mail, and I think it's appropriate to wonder why criticism is felt to apply in this case.

He is blackening the name of the Irish people in a number of ways

Can you explicitly name the ways, in the interests of clarity?

He expressed nothing but affection for Ireland and Irish people in his interview this morning, noting that the majority of Irish people have been very supportive.

wretcheddomain

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I'm not the OP, and I fail to see any paranoia in what I wrote. It's a simple point, fundamentally. If you receive abusive or threatening correspondence, you can ignore it or take action. If you are so disturbed that you choose to act, you ought to take it to those who are empowered to investigate, which is the police. I don't see what purpose is served by taking this to the press other than to attempt to widen the sphere of blame outwards to encompass the Irish people in general. If there is a productive purpose for making such unsupported allegations in the press, then I'm open to hearing what that might be.

I always take OP to mean 'other poster', silly error.

Anyway, I'd like to know what logic you employ to move from specific instances of individual lunatic-fringe extremists, which all Irish people recognise, to Praveen trying to paint all Irish people 'in general'? Where is your evidence to show Praveen is actively trying to tar all Irish people 'in general' and how can you possibly derive this from his action or lack thereof in going to the Gardaí.

I'm sorry to say your logic is faulty and needs to be rapidly repaired.

Cavehill Red

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Well I don't see how there's reason to believe he didn't alert the gardai... unless you want to believe it (which I strongly suspect you do).

If he alerted the Gardai, the first thing they'd do is ask him not to alert those who had sent the abusive mail to the fact they were under AGS investigation, by informing the entire nation about it via the press.

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

And his thinking is not going to be as rational as that of someone whose wife hasn't needlessly died less than a year ago.

Likely true. In this regard, I think his case is not dissimilar to other high profile media cases like that of Madeleine McCann. There clearly came a point in both incidents where the grieving relatives seem to have irrationally conflated media attention with productive activity that can ameliorate their situation.

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Plus I wouldn't blame him for publicly calling out those bullies - not as if he isn't under enough strain already.
But again, his wife only died and he's just looking for money. Cavehill, do you ever have compassion?

I have plenty of compassion. My compassion extends to the hardworking people in the Irish medical system who have been tried by media before a full investigation had been conducted. My compassion is also subordinated to a desire that the facts of the case be fully known, and not distorted via trial by media. I think that battle lines (on the long-entrenched form of pro and anti-abortion) were drawn on this case from the outset, and that may have misdirected many people who would normally be utterly resistant to the idea of trial by media.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Cavehill Red wrote: »

He made a series of allegations via the media that subsequently proved on investigation to be untrue. Some of them remain propagated even on this thread. He could have awaited the outcome of the series of investigations immediately convened before commenting, but chose not to, and got some of his facts inevitably wrong.



He is blackening the name of the Irish people in a number of ways, the latest of which is his new allegation of receiving threats via the mail. Again, there is a standard procedure for investigation which he has decided to ignore in favour of garnering media coverage for as yet unsupported allegations. My concern is this: if he is genuinely receiving letters and is genuinely upset about them, why take them to the Irish Times instead of An Garda Siochana? There's nothing Kitty Holland can do about such letter writers after all.

If you bothered to do the most basic checking then you would know that Praveens solictor passed the threatening letters to Gardai weeks ago.
Still dont let the facts get in the way of your personal hatefest for the poor man.

Cavehill Red

wretcheddomain wrote: »

I'm sorry to say your logic is faulty and needs to be rapidly repaired.

Says the poster who reckons the poor man didn't grieve in the right way?
I think that deserves a :rolleyes:

Legs.Eleven

wretcheddomain wrote: »

While I'm fully against those abusive letters he has received, I do think there's something suspicious about him. When I watched the interview with Miriam O'Callaghan, I got the distinct impression he didn't really 'care' as much as a husband should do. He didn't even appear despondent. I'm aware that organised marriages occur within their faith and so it wouldn't surprise me if this is how it happened and would explain his lack of emotion for the situation. I knew he would eventually sue the HSE for cash and this fits perfectly within my model that he is merely thinking of his own pockets to capitalise on her death. I know that sounds bad given the tragic circumstances in which she died but if I had a wife that died in such circumstances, I personally would not want to gain a cent from it. I think there's something morally reprehensible, as well as suspicious, to gain cash at the expense of a death.

This is the worst thing I've ever read on Boards. Disgusting.

endacl

In fairness, there are many defending the man in this thread from both sides of the fence. The discussion if how he has been treated is not a pro- or anti- choice one.

wretcheddomain

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Says the poster who reckons the poor man didn't grieve in the right way?
I think that deserves a :rolleyes:

Even if that were true, doesn't make my analysis of your posts false.

I think that deserves a :cool:

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

This is the worst thing I've ever read on Boards. Disgusting.

I second that!

Cavehill Red

Old and grey wrote: »

If you bothered to do the most basic checking then you would know that Praveens solictor passed the threatening letters to Gardai weeks ago.
Still dont let the facts get in the way of your personal hatefest for the poor man.

Oh, grow up. Is this seriously the level of debate?
If he handed in the letters to AGS, then why has he not permitted them the opportunity to do their job and investigate them? All I have asked is what possible benefit or purpose is achieved by airing this in the media? No one seems to have an answer for that. My suspicion is that he has come to believe that media attention is itself somehow beneficial, in the same way that the McCanns and other people often do. The reality is that in itself, it isn't, of course. Complaining about this in the Irish Times gets AGS no closer to identifying those who wrote such letters. So what does it achieve, other than to extend the penumbra of blame outwards?

General General

Cavehill Red wrote: »

On standard medical practice in this country. Let me reverse the question: on what grounds do you believe we do not have a thorough investigatory methodology in place for complaints about medical malpractice in Ireland?
Feel free to rubbish the various complaints and investigatory procedures of the IMO, ICGP, HSE and the courts while doing so, if you care to.

So, your opinion that "we have well-established methodologies for investigating cases of alleged medical negligence that deal perfectly adequately with many other similar issues" is based on "standard medical practice in this country"?????????????

What?

Let me repeat that: your opinion that "we have well-established methodologies for investigating cases of alleged medical negligence that deal perfectly adequately with many other similar issues", you state when questioned on what the foundations for such an opinion are, is based on "standard medical practice in this country".

& you tell others in your posts that they are speaking nonsense?

Your request that I provide you with grounds that "we do not have a thorough investigatory methodology in place for complaints about medical malpractice in Ireland" suggests that you have no real foundation for your claims at all... which would not surprise, given the display of frankly bizarre thought process above & an apparent love of writing quango-speak.

Cody Pomeray

Cavehill Red wrote: »

If he handed in the letters to AGS, then why has he not permitted them the opportunity to do their job and investigate them?

He has, there is nothing preventing the Gardaí from investigating these letters.

Seriously, are you aware that crime reporting exists in this country? A huge amount of newspaper and air space are given over to reporting crimes under investigation. You'd better find an alternative point soon if you want to save any credibility.

Cavehill Red

General General wrote: »

Your request that I provide you with grounds that "we do not have a thorough investigatory methodology in place for complaints about medical malpractice in Ireland" suggests that you have no real foundation for your claims at all... which would not surprise, given the display of frankly bizarre thought process above & an apparent love of writing quango-speak.

Not at all. It simply proved that you were unaware of the existence of any of the following:
http://www.medicalcouncil.ie/Information-for-Doctors/Complaints-FAQ/
http://www.nursingboard.ie/en/complaints_process.aspx
http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/yourhealthservice/feedback/Complaints/
nor the significant body of law relating to medical negligence court actions in Ireland.

endacl

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

This is the worst thing I've ever read on Boards. Disgusting.

Worse than 'facekicker'?!?

vitani

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Oh, grow up. Is this seriously the level of debate?
If he handed in the letters to AGS, then why has he not permitted them the opportunity to do their job and investigate them? All I have asked is what possible benefit or purpose is achieved by airing this in the media? No one seems to have an answer for that. My suspicion is that he has come to believe that media attention is itself somehow beneficial, in the same way that the McCanns and other people often do. The reality is that in itself, it isn't, of course. Complaining about this in the Irish Times gets AGS no closer to identifying those who wrote such letters. So what does it achieve, other than to extend the penumbra of blame outwards?

Didn't Enda Kenny and a number of TDs recently come out and say that they'd been receiving hate mail because of their stance on the abortion bill? I presume you criticised them at the time for this.