Praveen Halappanavar says he has received abusive letters

Lingua Franca

Cavehill Red wrote: »

On standard medical practice in this country. Let me reverse the question: on what grounds do you believe we do not have a thorough investigatory methodology in place for complaints about medical malpractice in Ireland?
Feel free to rubbish the various complaints and investigatory procedures of the IMO, ICGP, HSE and the courts while doing so, if you care to.

Does anyone else remember that the internal inquiry was going to be conducted by Savita's consultants themselves until Praveen's solicitor objected?

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2012-11-20/news/35226038_1_indian-dentist-savita-halappanavar-inquiry-health-service-executive

Cavehill Red

vitani wrote: »

Didn't Enda Kenny and a number of TDs recently come out and say that they'd been receiving hate mail because of their stance on the abortion bill? I presume you criticised them at the time for this.

It's similarly risible in my opinion if that's what you're asking. I don't recall a boards thread about it, otherwise I might well have commented to that effect.
I think that if people seriously were concerned about abusive communication, they'd be dealing solely with the Gardai about it, and that goes for everyone who seeks to curry favour and sympathy via the press in this manner, be they Taoiseach or otherwise.

Czarcasm

Nermal wrote: »

No, just the name of religious vindictive validation seeking fundamentalists. Keep it up Praveen, they're a rapidly dying force and your wife's death was not in vain.

Nothing religious about them, they only use religion as an excuse to further their bitterness. Not all religious fundamentalists are hate-perpetrating bastards like YD, they were hate-perpetrating bastards before they were ever able to use religion as an excuse to justify their behaviour.

GT_TDI_150

So what if he was seeking compensation?!?

He lost his wife due the lack of care she received at the hands of staff of the HSE while she was loosing their unborn child ...

I dont care how he appears to behave in public, the man deserves a propper inquiry and to be compensated for loosing his wife/friend in the way he did.

Cavehill Red

Lingua Franca wrote: »

Does anyone else remember that the internal inquiry was going to be conducted by Savita's consultants themselves until Praveen's solicitor objected?

Not quite. The investigatory panel included them to provide information on their practices so that they could be compared to standard international best practices.

wretcheddomain

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

This is the worst thing I've ever read on Boards. Disgusting.

Old and grey wrote: »

I second that!

Well the bad news for you is that I stand by my views with the same conviction that you have yours.

The good news is that I've modified my view to take into account Whoopsadaisydoodle's perspective.

my my my

so his plan is to sue the irish health system, does he think were made of money or what, bad luck to him if he does

endacl

my my my wrote: »

so his plan is to sue the irish health system, does he think were made of money or what, bad luck to him if he does

He's more than welcome to the insignificant proportion of my taxes that it'll take, and best of luck to him with it.

You don't sound very nice.

Lingua Franca

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Not quite. The investigatory panel included them to provide information on their practices so that they could be compared to standard international best practices.

No, quite. They were to conduct the internal investigation themselves until Praveen's solictor objected to the obscene conflict of interest. It was quite a big story at the time and everyone outside of the HSE was appalled.

I provided a link to back up my assertion, perhaps you could extend the same courtesy?

lazygal

This should be in the conspiracy theory section. I'm embarrassed for some of the posters.

This thread is good for a filtering system anyway

endacl

lazygal wrote: »

This should be in the conspiracy theory section. I'm embarrassed for some of the posters.

Nah. I've tried arguing rationally over there. You get carded.

Corkfeen

Cavehill Red wrote: »

It's similarly risible in my opinion if that's what you're asking. I don't recall a boards thread about it, otherwise I might well have commented to that effect.
I think that if people seriously were concerned about abusive communication, they'd be dealing solely with the Gardai about it, and that goes for everyone who seeks to curry favour and sympathy via the press in this manner, be they Taoiseach or otherwise.

Whether they're concerned about the threats or not. It is shameful for people to send abusive messages to a person for any reason. Personally, I'm of the opinion that these events should be publicised and the individuals who are responsible should be publicly shamed. Praveen and even Enda are technically victims of unfair abuse, stop treating them as if they're instigators.

I mightn't like many things Kenny does but he isn't deserving of threats of any kind while what exactly has Praveen done wrong? You don't like that he drew attention to the atrocious treatment which he received in an Irish hospital? The public should be aware of what occurred rather than have the event brushed under the carpet which is what I suspect would have happened.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Oh, grow up. Is this seriously the level of debate?

No. you have brought the level of the debate to low I could never dare to reach!

my my my

endacl wrote: »

He's more than welcome to the insignificant proportion of my taxes that it'll take, and best of luck to him with it.

You don't sound very nice.

actually i take it all back, he's welcome to it

Nodin

Gatling wrote: »

Nodin do a search on YouTube for the interview with Miriam O'Callaghan he clearly states it himself ,

You stated it, you source it. That's how it works.

General General

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Not at all. It simply proved that you were unaware of the existence of any of the following:
http://www.medicalcouncil.ie/Information-for-Doctors/Complaints-FAQ/
http://www.nursingboard.ie/en/complaints_process.aspx
http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/yourhealthservice/feedback/Complaints/
nor the significant body of law relating to medical negligence court actions in Ireland.

Complaints FAQ

What type of doctors can complaints be made against?

The Medical Council can consider a complaint about any doctor practising in Ireland. This includes doctors working in all branches of medicine, including hospital and general practice.

Do I need to instruct a solicitor if I wish to make a complaint?

It is not necessary to instruct a Solicitor. However, the Medical Council will accept a complaint made on your behalf from a Solicitor.

Will the doctor be aware that I have made a complaint about him/her?

If a complaint is received a copy of it is sent to the doctor in question.

source: http://www.medicalcouncil.ie/Information-for-Doctors/Complaints-FAQ/

Second document cited is merely an outline of the complaints process for the Nursing Board.

Third document cited is merely a blurby outline of how the HSE wishes to effect or bring about implementation of a part of a Health Act (2004), along with some links to documents similar to the first above.

So... so that this doesn't get ridiculous, can you please finally provide some form of study or report that in some way backs your claim that "we have well-established methodologies for investigating cases of alleged medical negligence that deal perfectly adequately with many other similar issues" versus, say, "some methods for investigating cases of alleged medical negligence, the adequacy of which is open for debate"? Can you please finally back up your claim in some meaningful way that what we have in this country is an "investigatory methodology" or "methodologies for investigating" or whatever you'd like to call it, for alleged medical malpractice that is/are "thorough" & "perfectly adequate", as you've insisted it is..

Please give us a couple of sources if you can, I'd imagine you can, as you seem so sure, so we can begin a proper examination of your claims... finally, after all this, can you do that? & not be fobbing us off with FAQs & blurbs written by those against whom claims of malpractice would be made..

Cavehill Red

Lingua Franca wrote: »

No, quite. They were to conduct the internal investigation themselves until Praveen's solictor objected to the obscene conflict of interest. It was quite a big story at the time and everyone outside of the HSE was appalled.

I provided a link to back up my assertion, perhaps you could extend the same courtesy?

The final lines of your own link. Perhaps you didn't read that far?

Legs.Eleven

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Well the bad news for you is that I stand by my views with the same conviction that you have yours.

The good news is that I've modified my view to take into account Whoopsadaisydoodle's perspective.

How is that bad news for me? You can believe what you want or say what you want but it's disgusting and if I were you, I'd be mortified. It was a tasteless, heartless comment that shocked me.


Listen man, my mother died when I was 11. The same day as her funeral I went on my school tour to the Coca Cola factory and a week later I was back at school. I don't think I cried once in public, not even at her funeral but I cried every night with the duvet over my head for months after. Everyone treated me like I was over it because that's how I acted - that's how we all acted. We didn't discuss what happened among ourselves. We grieved in our own private ways. 22 years later I miss her more than I ever did and I'm still mourning her but always privately.

People who've lost someone don't mourn like actors in a Hollywood film or walk around the street shouting and wailing in public. Your comment struck me because it showed such a lack of understanding of the grieving process and how it differs from person to person.

Cavehill Red

Old and grey wrote: »

No. you have brought the level of the debate to low I could never dare to reach!

How did I manage that in your opinion exactly?
The battle lines on this issue have been drawn so ludicrously black and white that it appears any attempt to nuance the discussion leads to accusations such as the nonsense you levelled at me of hatred.
I don't know the man and I feel extremely sorry for his loss which should never have occurred, and I have consistently supported a full inquiry. For what it is worth, I am an atheist buddhist and pro-legislating for the X case.
However, I don't see why I should have to present these cards of identity on the table simply to avoid ridiculous abusive allegations of hatred from unthinking posters who insist on seeing everything to do with this case, or indeed abortion legislation, in black and white only.
Praveen can be wronged utterly by the circumstances of his wife's death and yet not be impeccable in his every action. The Irish health service can be underfunded, poorly staffed, and prone to occasional negligent actions that cause death without being some sort of murder machine. I can be uneasy about his profligate use of the press, and their printing of untruths, without conducting a hate campaign against anyone.

endacl

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

How is that bad news for me? You can believe what you want or say what you want but it's disgusting and if I were you, I'd be mortified. It was a tasteless, heartless comment that shocked me.


Listen man, my mother died when I was 11. The same day as her funeral I went on my school tour to the Coca Cola factory and a week later I was back at school. I don't think I cried once in public, not even at her funeral but I cried every night with the duvet over my head for months after. Everyone treated me like I was over it because that's how I acted - that's how we all acted. We didn't discuss what happened among ourselves. We grieved in our own private ways. 22 years later I miss her more than I ever did and I'm still mourning her but always privately.

People who've lost someone don't mourn like actors in a Hollywood film or walk around the street shouting and wailing in public. Your comment struck me because it showed such a lack of understanding of the grieving process and how it differs from person to person.

Sorry for your loss.

Cavehill Red

General General wrote: »

Please give us a couple of sources if you can, I'd imagine you can, as you seem so sure, so we can begin a proper examination of your claims... finally, after all this, can you do that? & not be fobbing us off with FAQs & blurbs written by those against whom claims of malpractice would be made..

This is entering facepalm territory.
Those are the sources. There is a triple-lock complaints system in Ireland as those sources indicate. One can complain to the relevant medical authority (Medical Council or An Bord Altranais); one can complain to the HSE; one can utilise the courts system of redress. So we have technical, systemic and litigatory methodologies all in place. That's as comprehensive as it gets, and I reiterate my challenge to you to demonstrate otherwise.

Lingua Franca

Cavehill Red wrote: »

The final lines of your own link. Perhaps you didn't read that far?

I did, of course, a quote from another of the inquiry team defending their inclusion. It was indefensible and they were removed.

my my my

praveen should be awarded a seven figure sum at least

endacl

my my my wrote: »

praveen should be awarded a seven figure sum at least

Grown up talk. Go away.

my my my

endacl wrote: »

Grown up talk. Go away.

ya well when your niece.nephew is refused an operation becaos of lack of funds send a few bob to yer man, then go **** yourself, good lad

my my my

my my my wrote: »

ya well when your niece.nephew is refused an operation becaos of lack of funds send a few bob to yer man, then go **** yourself, good lad

What a terrible post

Janedoe10

MagicMarker wrote: »

Investigate what?

If some one sends abusive letters to any one , then of course they need to be investigated .

my my my

rarnes1 wrote: »

What a terrible post

****áil tu fein, maith an fear

Gatling

But surely first call is to AGS and not some journalist beginning to think he's been advised too keep his name in the media at any cost

Sir Humphrey Appleby

my my my wrote: »

****áil tu fein, maith an fear

Pityfull and pathetic post!

my my my

Old and grey wrote: »

Pityfull and pathetic post!

well said

Pro Hoc Vice

wretcheddomain wrote: »

While I'm fully against those abusive letters he has received, I do think there's something suspicious about him. When I watched the interview with Miriam O'Callaghan, I got the distinct impression he didn't really 'care' as much as a husband should do. He didn't even appear despondent. I'm aware that organised marriages occur within their faith and so it wouldn't surprise me if this is how it happened and would explain his lack of emotion for the situation. I knew he would eventually sue the HSE for cash and this fits perfectly within my model that he is merely thinking of his own pockets to capitalise on her death. I know that sounds bad given the tragic circumstances in which she died but if I had a wife that died in such circumstances, I personally would not want to gain a cent from it. I think there's something morally reprehensible, as well as suspicious, to gain cash at the expense of a death.

After reading that I think that you are filled with Christian charity.

endacl

my my my wrote: »

ya well when your niece.nephew is refused an operation becaos of lack of funds send a few bob to yer man, then go **** yourself, good lad

You thanked my post and then responded with that? Make your mind up.

Now you sound odd as well.

Pro Hoc Vice

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Sorry but mentioning the faith of an individual never constitutes racism. In fact, this is what Zionists say if you criticise Israel - 'You're racist' - religion and race are like comparing chalk and cheese so please refrain from labels like that.

OK your not racist your a troll.

my my my

endacl wrote: »

You thanked my post and then responded with that? Make your mind up.

Now you sound odd as well.

at the end of the day you was right and i was wrong

Pro Hoc Vice

MagicMarker wrote: »

Investigate what?

Any number of crimes off the top of my head section 10 non fathal offences against the person Act 1997 maybe Prohibition of Incitement To Hatred Act, 1989 or any number of the Post and Telegraphs Acts. Plenty to pick from.

endacl

my my my wrote: »

at the end of the day you was right and i was wrong

Why don't you go have a sit down and nice cup of tea.

You'll feel better.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Gatling wrote: »

But surely first call is to AGS and not some journalist beginning to think he's been advised too keep his name in the media at any cost

The AGS were called by Praveens solicitor well before Praveen gave the interviews, check the facts!

Pro Hoc Vice

wretcheddomain wrote: »

I'm not referring to how he is now.

I'm specifically referring to his interview with Miriam O'Callaghan about 2-3 weeks after the death of Savita.

She died on 28th October 2012, the interview was broadcast on 21 November 2012.

Go and watch the interview and tell me that 2-3 weeks after you lose a wife and baby under tragic circumstances, you could even believe the sincerity. I doubt you'll be able to.

Did you ever meet a person in the aftermath of a serious loss even weeks later laughing and joking appearing totally normal for weeks even months and then breaking down its called grief. People deal with it in different ways you see what you want I still think your a troll because if you really believe this your a twisted nut job.

Nodin

Gatling wrote: »

But surely first call is to AGS and not some journalist beginning to think he's been advised too keep his name in the media at any cost

You worry about that when you find the source for that quote.

FouxDaFaFa

Cavehill Red wrote: »

He is blackening the name of the Irish people in a number of ways, the latest of which is his new allegation of receiving threats via the mail.

Those people are blackening their own name.

They certainly don't need any help doing it.

Tommy_Pickles

Stark wrote: »

You forgot "I'm not a racist, but"

Yawn.

Not one mention of his race.

darkhorse

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Sorry but mentioning the faith of an individual never constitutes racism. In fact, this is what Zionists say if you criticise Israel - 'You're racist' - religion and race are like comparing chalk and cheese so please refrain from labels like that.

Of course, if Praveen was white, you probably would have said the same thing. Yeah, right. Despicable.

darkhorse

wretcheddomain wrote: »

However, should a situation arise whereby his pockets are filled at the expense of his wife, then yes, that is what I'd define as disturbing.

Are you saying that he shouldn't be compensated?

Wabbit Ears

Is Praveen talking about online letters or pen and paper ones? From what was said on the radio I assumed pen and paper and was like, How the fcuk did random haters get his home address... Or maybe I'm missing something.

Thom Merrilin

darkhorse wrote: »

Are you saying that he shouldn't be compensated?

I don't think he should be compensated financially tbh, a thorough investigation (resulting in the change of legislation in this issue for the first time in history) and apology from the state is more than sufficient. What difference would having extra cash make to him? It's almost an insult, putting a cash value on his deceased wife and child.

Pro Hoc Vice

Thom Merrilin wrote: »

I don't think he should be compensated financially tbh, a thorough investigation (resulting in the change of legislation in this issue for the first time in history) and apology from the state is more than sufficient.

Do you believe the same for all wrongful deaths. Say a 34 year old father of 4 who is killed by another's negligence his family in your view at best get a investigation. Say that negligence is medical.

P. Breathnach

Thom Merrilin wrote: »

... It's almost an insult, putting a cash value on his deceased wife and child.

It's more insulting to imply that they had no value.

Thom Merrilin

infosys wrote: »

Do you believe the same for all wrongful deaths. Say a 34 year old father of 4 who is killed by another's negligence his family in your view at best get a investigation. Say that negligence is medical.

That's different as the children are (probably) dependent on him financially to survive. Even still, having the doctor who screwed up losing his medical license would make a better outcome in the long run, not large cash payoffs.