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Are mods exempt from rules when moderating?

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    #2
    Larianne
    Registered Users Posts: 35,954 ✭✭✭✭Larianne


    Backseat modding?

    The posts by moderators are giving on thread warnings about people behaving like dicks.

    Report the post instead of posting it on thread if you feel someone is being a dick.


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    #3
    Tallon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,565 ✭✭✭✭Tallon


    Larianne wrote: »
    Backseat modding?

    The posts by moderators are giving on thread warnings about people behaving like dicks.

    Report the post instead of posting it on thread if you feel someone is being a dick.
    So the answer to the question in the title is yes?


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    #4
    Larianne
    Registered Users Posts: 35,954 ✭✭✭✭Larianne


    What rules? Calling someone a dick on thread?

    Well if it's in the charter (and it's pretty much a site wide known fact) not to be a dick and if people are being dicks, the mods have every right to warn/infarct/ban people for being dicks and giving it as a reason.

    What rule are they meant to be exempt from, Tallon?


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    #5
    sundodger5
    Registered Users Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭sundodger5


    Larianne wrote: »
    What rules? Calling someone a dick on thread?

    Well if it's in the charter (and it's pretty much a site wide known fact) not to be a dick and if people are being dicks, the mods have every right to warn/infarct/ban people for being dicks and giving it as a reason.

    What rule are they meant to be exempt from, Tallon?
    Personal abuse?


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    #6
    Tallon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,565 ✭✭✭✭Tallon


    Larianne wrote: »
    What rules? Calling someone a dick on thread?

    Well if it's in the charter (and it's pretty much a site wide known fact) not to be a dick and if people are being dicks, the mods have every right to warn/infarct/ban people for being dicks and giving it as a reason.

    What rule are they meant to be exempt from, Tallon?
    'Personal Abuse'

    Are mods allowed personally abuse someone because they are 'Moderating'

    It's a very simple question, which you seem to be pussy footing around!


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    #7
    Larianne
    Registered Users Posts: 35,954 ✭✭✭✭Larianne


    I didn't see any abuse in those posts tbh.


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    #8
    Tallon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,565 ✭✭✭✭Tallon


    Larianne wrote: »
    I didn't see any abuse in those posts tbh.
    And my post? The one I was infracted for?


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    #9
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Yes, mods are allowed describe a poster as a dick (in relation to particular posts, not generally) or a troll or a troublemaker or whatever. In a sense, they do it on behalf of the rest of us. If I think somebody is acting the dick, I report it and the mod adjudicates.

    People tend to get bogged down with similes, but I would liken the mod's role to that of a referee in a match: only the mod can rule on what is foul play. Other participants should not blow whistles.


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    #10
    Tallon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,565 ✭✭✭✭Tallon


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    Yes, mods are allowed describe a poster as a dick (in relation to particular posts, not generally) or a troll or a troublemaker or whatever. In a sense, they do it on behalf of the rest of us. If I think somebody is acting the dick, I report it and the mod adjudicates.

    People tend to get bogged down with similes, but I would liken the mod's role to that of a referee in a match: only the mod can rule on what is foul play. Other participants should not blow whistles.
    Another post that does not make any sense!

    Can you answer the question please?


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    #11
    Mr E
    Registered Users Posts: 55,516 ✭✭✭✭Mr E


    The bottom 3 links in the OP are broken, Tallon.


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    #12
    Tallon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,565 ✭✭✭✭Tallon


    Mr E wrote: »
    The bottom 3 links in the OP are broken, Tallon.
    Apologies, that's fixed now


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    #13
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Tallon wrote: »
    Another post that does not make any sense!

    Can you answer the question please?
    I answered it: when acting as moderators, mods are not subject to the rules in the same way as the rest of us are - specifically in relation to describing a poster's behaviour.

    The fact that you don't like my answer does not mean either that it is wrong or that it makes no sense.


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    #14
    sundodger5
    Registered Users Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭sundodger5


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    Yes, mods are allowed describe a poster as a dick (in relation to particular posts, not generally) or a troll or a troublemaker or whatever. In a sense, they do it on behalf of the rest of us. If I think somebody is acting the dick, I report it and the mod adjudicates.

    People tend to get bogged down with similes, but I would liken the mod's role to that of a referee in a match: only the mod can rule on what is foul play. Other participants should not blow whistles.

    To use your referee analogy. The ref can blow the whistle for foul play but cant foul the player themselves. if calling someone a dick is against the rules then surely the mods can't abuse it either?


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    #15
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,712 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    "Don't be a dick" is one of the longstanding Boards rules, stemming from a comment by Wil Wheaton ("Don't be a dick" is generally referred to as 'Wheaton's Law'). It isn't being used by moderators as personal abuse, it's being used in the context of telling a poster they are acting against the site rules, whether it's by being antagonistic, condescending, needlessly aggressive, borderline trolling etc.

    In your DRP thread, I made the comparison about calling another poster a troll. Sometimes posters call other posters a troll either to discredit their opinion or as a form of personal abuse. Calling another poster a troll is considered to be a) personal abuse, or b) backseat moderating, depending on the circumstances (mods might not necessarily action it, again, depending on the circumstances). But a moderator can call another poster a troll in the case of a moderating decision (if the person is trolling). Same with calling them a dick, if they're breaking the "Don't be a dick" rule.


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    #16
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    sundodger5 wrote: »
    To use your referee analogy. The ref can blow the whistle for foul play but cant foul the player themselves. if calling someone a dick is against the rules then surely the mods can't abuse it either?
    Jaysus! I did say that people tend to get bogged down with similes, but I thought that I had chosen a safe one.

    So you want the ref to be allowed call a foul, but not be allowed say what the foul was.


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    #17
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    It's like the rule for parents that says you don't tell your child she's a bold girl but that she's being bold.


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    #18
    Tallon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,565 ✭✭✭✭Tallon


    Penn wrote: »
    "Don't be a dick" is one of the longstanding Boards rules, stemming from a comment by Wil Wheaton ("Don't be a dick" is generally referred to as 'Wheaton's Law'). It isn't being used by moderators as personal abuse, it's being used in the context of telling a poster they are acting against the site rules, whether it's by being antagonistic, condescending, needlessly aggressive, borderline trolling etc.

    In your DRP thread, I made the comparison about calling another poster a troll. Sometimes posters call other posters a troll either to discredit their opinion or as a form of personal abuse. Calling another poster a troll is considered to be a) personal abuse, or b) backseat moderating, depending on the circumstances (mods might not necessarily action it, again, depending on the circumstances). But a moderator can call another poster a troll in the case of a moderating decision (if the person is trolling). Same with calling them a dick, if they're breaking the "Don't be a dick" rule.
    Which is what I said in my DRP and to the Mod originally!

    I was not attacking the poster, I was asking them to 'stop being a dick' and that he had previously 'acted like a dick'

    How is that personal abuse?

    Also, just for clarity, the answer to my original question is; Yes! A mod is allowed break the rules, as long as they are moderating?


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    #19
    Tallon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,565 ✭✭✭✭Tallon


    OscorBravo, why did you delete your post?


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    #20
    sundodger5
    Registered Users Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭sundodger5


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    Jaysus! I did say that people tend to get bogged down with similes, but I thought that I had chosen a safe one.

    So you want the ref to be allowed call a foul, but not be allowed say what the foul was.

    Perhaps the terminology should be changed from a mod point of view?
    If you can give someone grief for saying things in a particular way but then use the same term yourself it looks like double standards whether intended or not.


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    #21
    Tallon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,565 ✭✭✭✭Tallon


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    I answered it: when acting as moderators, mods are not subject to the rules in the same way as the rest of us are - specifically in relation to describing a poster's behaviour.

    The fact that you don't like my answer does not mean either that it is wrong or that it makes no sense.

    As above, just for clarity, the answer to my original question is; Yes! A mod is allowed break the rules, as long as they are moderating?

    A simple yes or no will suffice


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    #22
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Tallon wrote: »
    As above, just for clarity, the answer to my original question is; Yes! A mod is allowed break the rules, as long as they are moderating?

    A simple yes or no will suffice
    The answer is "no", but you need to consider what rules apply. The rules for mods when they are acting as moderators are different from the rules that apply to ordinary posters.


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    #23
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Tallon wrote: »
    ... Are mods allowed personally abuse someone because they are 'Moderating'

    It's a very simple question, which you seem to be pussy footing around!
    My response to your question is a simple unequivocal "Yes", based on my own recent first-hand experiences. Outright unfounded accusations of lying, accusations of fabricating stories and exaggeration sailed through as did obvious concerted attempts at bullying and ad hominem attacks. Reported to mods and reported to c-mods. I might as well have reported them to Shep.

    That line about dicks in the charters needs changing (as does moderator behaviour and posting, less of the "don't do as I do, do as I say" and more of the model citizen behaviour is called for IMHO (some hope)).

    The charters are open to free interpretation by the mods as suits their purposes from time-to-time and consistency in interpretation and application of "the rules" is not one of their purposes as I've pointed out previously in Feedback and in PMs.

    It's all pointless typing and posting anyway, nothing will change, not even the sycophantic thank yous attached to the OP announcing the new home page. Crawlers and bullies, the two characteristics are usually seen in the same person as suits the circumstances.


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    #24
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,712 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Tallon wrote: »
    Which is what I said in my DRP and to the Mod originally!

    I was not attacking the poster, I was asking them to 'stop being a dick' and that he had previously 'acted like a dick'

    How is that personal abuse?

    Because you weren't doing it as a mod, you were doing it as a poster. And calling another poster a dick is personal abuse.
    Tallon wrote: »
    Also, just for clarity, the answer to my original question is; Yes! A mod is allowed break the rules, as long as they are moderating?

    No, because it's not a breach of the rules for mods in the course of moderating.

    If I went onto the (random example) Dental Issues forum, saw someone being rude, antagonistic etc, even though I know he's breaking the "Don't be a dick" rule, it's not my place to call him out on it. I'd report the post and let the mods deal with it. Me calling him a dick on the thread would be personal abuse, because I, a normal poster, would be attacking the poster, not the post. Even if you don't regard it as being personal abuse, then it still falls under backseat modding.

    If someone on one of the forums I moderate (GTA for example) was breaking that rule, I might issue an on-thread warning saying "Don't be a dick", but within the course of moderating. I'm not attacking the poster, I'm pointing out as a moderator that his posts are breaking the rules, because that's what moderators are supposed to do (though personally, I tend not to use "Don't be a dick" as some people don't appreciate the phrasing of it, however succinct it may be).


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    #25
    Tallon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,565 ✭✭✭✭Tallon


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    The answer is "no", but you need to consider what rules apply. The rules for mods when they are acting as moderators are different from the rules that apply to ordinary posters.
    They shouldn't be!

    A moderator cannot personally abuse someone, while a user gets punished for the exact same thing!


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    #26
    Tallon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,565 ✭✭✭✭Tallon


    Penn wrote: »
    Because you weren't doing it as a mod, you were doing it as a poster. And calling another poster a dick is personal abuse.



    No, because it's not a breach of the rules for mods in the course of moderating.

    If I went onto the (random example) Dental Issues forum, saw someone being rude, antagonistic etc, even though I know he's breaking the "Don't be a dick" rule, it's not my place to call him out on it. I'd report the post and let the mods deal with it. Me calling him a dick on the thread would be personal abuse, because I, a normal poster, would be attacking the poster, not the post. Even if you don't regard it as being personal abuse, then it still falls under backseat modding.

    If someone on one of the forums I moderate (GTA for example) was breaking that rule, I might issue an on-thread warning saying "Don't be a dick", but within the course of moderating. I'm not attacking the poster, I'm pointing out as a moderator that his posts are breaking the rules, because that's what moderators are supposed to do (though personally, I tend not to use "Don't be a dick" as some people don't appreciate the phrasing of it, however succinct it may be).

    Except if you're a moderator*


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    #27
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,893 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    Tallon wrote: »
    Except if you're a moderator*

    * ...acting as a moderator within the forum they moderate.


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    #28
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,712 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Tallon wrote: »
    Except if you're a moderator*

    That's an unfair oversimplification. You're looking for a Yes or No answer when the answer simply isn't that black and white.


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    #29
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    "Not being a dick" is a well-known internet trope, and one of the core tenets of how to behave on Boards (or most any discussion forum). Referring in moderation to that term is not abuse - it's a warning about how not to act.

    Use of it by non-moderators is more back seat modding than anything, unless the context is such that someone is actually being abusive.


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    #30
    Tallon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,565 ✭✭✭✭Tallon


    Penn wrote: »
    That's an unfair oversimplification. You're looking for a Yes or No answer when the answer simply isn't that black and white.
    It's exactly that black and white.. The moderators said the same thing I did, but with me, it's 'Personal Abuse'

    I could link endless threads with the same issues, but you've asked me not to


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    #31
    Tallon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,565 ✭✭✭✭Tallon


    Tallon wrote: »
    OscorBravo, why did you delete your post?

    I would still like to know why OscorBravo deleted his post as I was replying to it...


This discussion has been closed.
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