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The Jobbridge Scandal
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The post earlier about someone doing 80 something hours having been forced into an internship as part of a FAS course has got to be the most purest form of bs i have read yet. You can't do a FAS course and an internship together, its basic stuff. You can't exceed more than 40 hours and you can't be forced to do an internship by the local DSP. There are rigorous interview processes and in some cases aptitude tests and for many positions, especially those in the public sector, garda clearance and not forgetting those which require some previous qualification or relevance in the area.
I went through several interview processes and clearance before being finally accepted, I veritably campaigned for the post as I knew the experience would be invaluable and an addition to my skillset.
If you really want to find out about internships the only way to really do that is to apply for one.
I'm not suggesting all internships are going to be that good but there certainly does appear to be a huge smear campaign from the anti job bridge brigade across on boards. I can't be bothered even reading half the shet about it anymore.
You do realise that many FAS courses require those attending to do an internship at the end. My friend was doing a momentum course and at the end of which he had to do a 3 month internship during which he was stuck working nights in a B&B for 14 hours each shift. It wasn't uncommon for him to do 6 nights in a row and it nearly killed the lad.
He made numerous complaints to the place running the course, FAS, the DSP and was pretty much told to do what he had to or have his payment cut. He contacted a number of TDs and the only ones who got back to him were Sein Fein TDs whom he spoke with at length.
As he was terrified of having his payment cut he finished out his 3 month internship at the end of which the guy he was working for offered to take him on for a 9 month jobsbridge and the DSP and the college running the course told him he should take it up and what a great opportunity it was. It was thanks to one of the Sein Fein TDs that he managed to get out of it and his payment hasn't been affected though he has been told by the DSP that he is required to apply for and take up an internship or face a cut to his payment.
And yes people are being forced into jobsbridge positions. There's many people who are being told by the DSP to either secure one of face a cut to their payment. Many are being told to attend interviews for positions and while you can deliberate make a balls of the interview the threat of having your payment cut is there. It's great that you got a good one but for many the positions advertised are not what they get. How many people end up sitting around for 9 months doing nothing, are sent to the shops, spend their days doing menial labour that takes all of an hour to be trained to do.0 -
Iwasfrozen wrote: »Great post I would say when people are having a hard time finding employment it's easy to blame someone or some thing else instead of asking themselves why they didn't get the job and how can they improve themselves.
Jobbridge is a convenient scapegoat for people.
Or it might be difficult to find a job when you look at the fact that there are not enough jobs out there for those out of work. At the minute there are 27 or so unemployed people for every 1 job vacancy which you know, may have something to do with people having difficulty getting a job.0 -
yet the max you can be forced to work is 40. How can this be????
Just quit at the end of 40 hrs in any week and tell the boss to f off.
Some people need to grow a pair.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »You do realise that many FAS courses require those attending to do an internship at the end. My friend was doing a momentum course and at the end of which he had to do a 3 month internship during which he was stuck working nights in a B&B for 14 hours each shift. It wasn't uncommon for him to do 6 nights in a row and it nearly killed the lad.
He made numerous complaints to the place running the course, FAS, the DSP and was pretty much told to do what he had to or have his payment cut. He contacted a number of TDs and the only ones who got back to him were Sein Fein TDs whom he spoke with at length.
As he was terrified of having his payment cut he finished out his 3 month internship at the end of which the guy he was working for offered to take him on for a 9 month jobsbridge and the DSP and the college running the course told him he should take it up and what a great opportunity it was. It was thanks to one of the Sein Fein TDs that he managed to get out of it and his payment hasn't been affected though he has been told by the DSP that he is required to apply for and take up an internship or face a cut to his payment.
And yes people are being forced into jobsbridge positions. There's many people who are being told by the DSP to either secure one of face a cut to their payment. Many are being told to attend interviews for positions and while you can deliberate make a balls of the interview the threat of having your payment cut is there. It's great that you got a good one but for many the positions advertised are not what they get. How many people end up sitting around for 9 months doing nothing, are sent to the shops, spend their days doing menial labour that takes all of an hour to be trained to do.
they don't, many FAS courses require a placement, usually a short ten week one, which is very different to an internship, which is voluntary and between 6 and 9 months long. You cannot be signed on for both FAS and Job Bridge, I know this because I opted out of my FAS traineeship to take up my internship, rather than taking my ten week placement. I'm sure if you check the details you will discover that your 'friend' wasn't on a Job bridge placement. No one is forced to take a job bridge placement. There are currently 2,700 active placements, there just aren't that many to go around.
from the job bridge website
I actually had to jump through hoops to sign off FAS before I could signn over to job bridge.Periods spent on Back to Education Allowance, VTOS, FÁS/SOLAS and Fáilte
Ireland Training courses, Youthreach, FIT, Community Employment Schemes, TUS,
Gateway, the Rural Social Scheme, Back to Work Scheme, Back to Work Enterprise
Allowance, Momentum Courses, Job Initiative or Job Assist will count towards
meeting the eligibility of JobBridge, provided:
The individual has completed these programmes0 -
yet the max you can be forced to work is 40. How can this be????
Just quit at the end of 40 hrs in any week and tell the boss to f off.
Some people need to grow a pair.
Many people do need to, but if you think there's a job there in the end you might not be so quick to. The lad I was talking about is a push over and he took it, at first he hoped for a job and ad he said himself if he could do it for a year out do at even minimum wage then he'd have a nice bundle saved and could afford to emigrate. As the weeks passed it became obvious that he was being used and it was his parents who put pressure on him to quit. He ended up setting it out but was still doing the same hours and it was killing him.0 -
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I never said that it was a jobsbridge. but throughout the course it was referred to as an internship and the lectures called it a short term jobsbridge. the point is that much like many of the jobsbridge positions they were taken advantage of and used. that after his three month internship or placement he was expected to do a nine month jobsbridge in the same place says a lot.
If you read through the thread you well see that most people agree with the scheme in principal. If it was working ad intended then it could be a great little scheme but like most it's being abused by businesses who want cheap Labour.they don't, many FAS courses require a placement, usually a short ten week one, which is very different to an internship, which is voluntary and between 6 and 9 months long. You cannot be signed on for both FAS and Job Bridge, I know this because I opted out of my FAS traineeship to take up my internship, rather than taking my ten week placement. I'm sure if you check the details you will discover that your 'friend' wasn't on a Job bridge placement. No one is forced to take a job bridge placement. There are currently 2,700 active placements, there just aren't that many to go around.
from the job bridge website
I actually had to jump through hoops to sign off FAS before I could signn over to job bridge.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »I never said that it was a jobsbridge. but throughout the course it was referred to as an internship and the lectures called it a short term jobsbridge. the point is that much like many of the jobsbridge positions they were taken advantage of and used. that after his three month internship or placement he was expected to do a nine month jobsbridge in the same place says a lot.
If you read through the thread you well see that most people agree with the scheme in principal. If it was working ad intended then it could be a great little scheme but like most it's being abused by businesses who want cheap Labour.
See, this is the thing. People can come here and talk about other peoples work placements or experiences through other schemes and lump it all onto the back of job bridge and people just eat that stuff up.
Internships were always available in Ireland as part of graduate programs, traineeships, apprentices and so on. I completed a three month work placement when I studied social care 15 years ago. It was pretty dismal stuff but par for the course in terms of work experience. (I wasn't overworked or anything but as experience goes I got to do most of the stuff my co workers did without getting paid and I was working full time elsewhere at the same time so I as knacked at the end of the day)
Unfortunately, skills without experience isn't much use when it comes to being employable and so courses are designed to cater for gathering on the job exposure by incorporating it as part of the program. I would not have earned my qualification in either area without having completed my work placement, that's just how it always was and probably always will be.0 -
Brutal Deluxe wrote: »Besides, let's face it, if a jobbridge is advertising as "no experience needed", why can't they just advertise a job?
Hosts aren't allowed to require experience:Jobbridge wrote:A Host organisation may not state that previous experience is required when advertising an internship under the JobBridge Scheme.0 -
See, this is the thing. People can come here and talk about other peoples work placements or experiences through other schemes and lump it all onto the back of job bridge and people just eat that stuff up.
Internships were always available in Ireland as part of graduate programs, traineeships, apprentices and so on. I completed a three month work placement when I studied social care 15 years ago. It was pretty dismal stuff but par for the course in terms of work experience. (I wasn't overworked or anything but as experience goes I got to do most of the stuff my co workers did without getting paid and I was working full time elsewhere at the same time so I as knacked at the end of the day)
Unfortunately, skills without experience isn't much use when it comes to being employable and so courses are designed to cater for gathering on the job exposure by incorporating it as part of the program. I would not have earned my qualification in either area without having completed my work placement, that's just how it always was and probably always will be.
Bit of a difference between doing a placement in an area in which you are suited and being stuck working in a deli or a B&B or warehouse or cafe for three months. I've known a few people who did different momentum courses and all had to do a three month internship and not one did it in a business relevant to what they had studied. I was talking to the lad who worked in the B&B and he pointed out that it was the same B&B that another person I know did their momentum internship in. Seems that he's been getting free labour for quite sometime thanks to the various courses out there.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Bit of a difference between doing a placement in an area in which you are suited and being stuck working in a deli or a B&B or warehouse or cafe for three months. I've known a few people who did different momentum courses and all had to do a three month internship and not one did it in a business relevant to what they had studied. I was talking to the lad who worked in the B&B and he pointed out that it was the same B&B that another person I know did their momentum internship in. Seems that he's been getting free labour for quite sometime thanks to the various courses out there.
This an industry that got a very generous vat cut the past three years and has claimed to be creating a record number of jobs0 -
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Look at Internships another way. Why would an employer be bothered to take on an inexperienced person and train them up to a certain standard, only to go through the whole thing again with a new intern? Some could be very hard work and interfere with the smooth running of the business.
I'm not saying this is always the case, but I'm sure some interns need a lot of supervision.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Many people do need to, but if you think there's a job there in the end you might not be so quick to. The lad I was talking about is a push over and he took it,
While I suspect your friend was either lying or exaggerating, lets say it was true, he would have a fairly decent case against the DSP, FAS etc. The threat of cutting your pay after the issue was explained is extortion, plenty of solicitors would love to get their hands on that.0 -
While I suspect your friend was either lying or exaggerating, lets say it was true, he would have a fairly decent case against the DSP, FAS etc. The threat of cutting your pay after the issue was explained is extortion, plenty of solicitors would love to get their hands on that.
The DSP didn't want to hear anything about it and kept telling him what an opportunity it was. I too was a little skeptical of the hours he claimed to be doing but his brother confirmed it. At the minute the lad in question is just keeping his head down and hoping for the best, he's looked at taking a case but doesn't want to as he doesn't want to paint a target on his back.0 -
It is ridiculous offering waiting jobs as internships.
I think they should differentiate the two.
1. Internships : these are only offered if they are jobs that normally require a 3rd level education. Therefore companies are training up staff over a 6 month period with actual real skills. Will help graduates gain much needed job experience.
2. Supplemental social welfare work: Jobs that require no experience and do not require a huge amount of training. These allow people to work part time and supplement their SW. The company should have to contribute towards this as well. They recieve a boost in staff at low cost and the person gets more money, a regular working week and some routine which may help get them back into the working mode.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »but doesn't want to as he doesn't want to paint a target on his back.
Does he think they have time to exact personal vendettas in there? If he gets put out, when he meets the DSP, just say that he has no idea why he was let go, he worked 84 hours a week and then collapsed from exhaustion. He done so under the threat of losing his social from both them and from his boss threatening him as well. If they cut his social then see a solicitor, and see what they advise. If he can't stand up for himself at all, he probably would not survive in a full time job regardless. When you have a full wage, bosses will try the same and if they get away with it, will keep doing it.0 -
It is ridiculous offering waiting jobs as internships.
I think they should differentiate the two.
1. Internships : these are only offered if they are jobs that normally require a 3rd level education. Therefore companies are training up staff over a 6 month period with actual real skills. Will help graduates gain much needed job experience.
2. Supplemental social welfare work: Jobs that require no experience and do not require a huge amount of training. These allow people to work part time and supplement their SW. The company should have to contribute towards this as well. They recieve a boost in staff at low cost and the person gets more money, a regular working week and some routine which may help get them back into the working mode.
Supplemental social welfare work, allowing people to work part time and get some dole as well as earning a wage paid by the employer. Now there is some green fields, blue skies thinking.
More like reinventing the wheel.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_and_work/jobseekers_benefit_and_work.html0 -
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It's not new news, this has been going on for months. Rte only picking up on it now.
Minister O'Sullivan is concerned but won't comment on it because she doesn't know enough about the situation, even though she's been in a government that has presided over the scam since it's inception. I was optimistic when she took over from Quinn but alas no change.0 -
From RTE...The Department of Social Protection has confirmed that it has removed an ad for a school cleaner, which was highlighted by RTÉ News yesterday, from the JobBridge register.
Now what about the rest?Genealogy Forum Mod
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Had a look on FAS Jobs page and the following 29 Internships are available countrywide - These are only the first 29. The majority do seem to offer experience in specific fields, though I'm not too sure about the Office Admin and butcher ones!
Childdare Assistant/Support Worker
General Yard person – Riding School
Optical Receptionist / Assistant
Hair Stylist
Telesales Agent
Assistant Engineer / Site Clerk
Architect
Architect/Agricultural Technologist
Laborotary Assistant
Administration Coordinator – Project management in a Pharmaceutical industry
Digital Marketing Assistant
Waiter/Waitress
Sales Assistant / Representative
Receptionist
Project Manager
Gym & Leisure Assistant
Receptionist
Office Administration Assistant
Clerical Assistant / Teller – Credit Union
National Fundraising Initiatives Assistant –
Marketing & Social Media Assistant
Activities & Social Care Coordinator – Nursing Home for the elderly
IT PC/Laptop/Tablet Maintenance/Repair Technician
General Operative – Engineering /Maintenance
Office Administrator
Administrator
Support Assistant to Microbiology Laboratory
Butcher
Communications and Research Assistant0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »Had a look on FAS Jobs page and the following 29 Internships are available countrywide - These are only the first 29. The majority do seem to offer experience in specific fields, though I'm not too sure about the Office Admin and butcher ones!
Some jobbridge's want experience as well, which is not actually allowed.
I check the site daily, and have seen an ads such as programmers with experience required, or wanting someone with laboratory experience.
The longer this goes on the more damaging it will be to businesses that are forced to take on interns to keep up with the competition.0 -
Some jobbridge's want experience as well, which is not actually allowed.
I check the site daily, and have seen an ads such as programmers with experience required, or wanting someone with laboratory experience.
The longer this goes on the more damaging it will be to businesses that are forced to take on interns to keep up with the competition.
If they take on a Jobbridge it is over and above their existing workforce. The rule is that it cannot be to replace an existing worker who has been let go. So there is no issue of competition unless there is widespread violation of that rule. And given that there are only ever between 6,000 and 7,000 Jobbridge placements at any given time from a working population of 2 million the effect on competition would be minimal anyway.0 -
dxhound2005 wrote: »If they take on a Jobbridge it is over and above their existing workforce. The rule is that it cannot be to replace an existing worker who has been let go. So there is no issue of competition unless there is widespread violation of that rule. And given that there are only ever between 6,000 and 7,000 Jobbridge placements at any given time from a working population of 2 million the effect on competition would be minimal anyway.
Like I said, if it continues.
Also, its not uncommon for jobbridge interns to replace paid workers, even if its against the rules. I replaced someone who they let go after not renewing his contract.0 -
Like I said, if it continues.
Also, its not uncommon for jobbridge interns to replace paid workers, even if its against the rules. I replaced someone who they let go after not renewing his contract.
Why didn't you report the company to Job Bridge then? That's clearly a breach in the Job Bridge agreement and that company should be banned from ever using the scheme. If we don't speak up and highlight these companies, nothing will change.....0 -
dxhound2005 wrote: »If they take on a Jobbridge it is over and above their existing workforce. The rule is that it cannot be to replace an existing worker who has been let go. So there is no issue of competition unless there is widespread violation of that rule. And given that there are only ever between 6,000 and 7,000 Jobbridge placements at any given time from a working population of 2 million the effect on competition would be minimal anyway.
I've seen this happen in my job, and your pal phony Joan was told to her face it had happened.
The effect on competition might be minimal but the effect it has on people who lose their jobs to indentured interns isn't minimal
Not that you or joan would give a f**k about that.0 -
Even in a menial "Internship" like Waitress or Shop Assistant, some time has to be spent training up a person. This impacts on regular employees, as they are the ones acting as "mentor". This may lead to reduced output. Why would a company continue to use Interns if they adversely affected their business? The idea behind JobBridge is a good one. It aims to get inexperienced people on the job experience. Yes, it is being abused in some cases. When you see such abuse, report it. Name and Shame unscrupulous employers.
Like all schemes, there are good and bad. However, I do believe that the good outweigh the bad.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Even in a menial "Internship" like Waitress or Shop Assistant, some time has to be spent training up a person. This impacts on regular employees, as they are the ones acting as "mentor". This may lead to reduced output. Why would a company continue to use Interns if they adversely affected their business? The idea behind JobBridge is a good one. It aims to get inexperienced people on the job experience. Yes, it is being abused in some cases. When you see such abuse, report it. Name and Shame unscrupulous employers.
Like all schemes, there are good and bad. However, I do believe that the good outweigh the bad.
How much time would you think ?
And when they are trained would it free up other employees or would it still result in 'reduced output' ?0 -
I think you're missing the point or maybe I missed it.
I thought she was saying that it's easier for jobs that would require little training (a shop worker for example) to just get in new interns, train up in a week or two and off they go. Free employment.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Even in a menial "Internship" like Waitress or Shop Assistant, some time has to be spent training up a person. This impacts on regular employees, as they are the ones acting as "mentor". This may lead to reduced output. Why would a company continue to use Interns if they adversely affected their business?
Largely because the exact same thing would have happened if it wasn't an internship and a "proper" job. Someone would have had to train up that person. The idea of training on the job isn't new. Only now the company doesn't have to pay the new person so that's why the company uses it.0 -
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Largely because the exact same thing would have happened if it wasn't an internship and a "proper" job. Someone would have had to train up that person. The idea of training on the job isn't new. Only now the company doesn't have to pay the new person so that's why the company uses it.
True. But my point is why put themselves through this every 6 to 9 months?
This post on JobBridge site is what they should really be about.
http://www.jobbridge.ie/notice10.aspx
JobBridge Pilot Postgraduate Programme of Professional Practice (PGPP)
The Department of Social Protection (DSP), in partnership with the Higher Education Authority (HEA), is introducing a pilot Postgraduate Programme of Professional Practice (PGPP) as part of JobBridge, the National Internship Scheme.
Within the framework of a JobBridge internship, interns will undertake work-based learning, with approved host organisations in relevant industry sectors, and on completion will be awarded a Level 9 Post Graduate Certificate in Professional Practice.
Learning Programme
The pilot PGPP will provide an opportunity for graduates to acquire validated cross-disciplinary skills in a work based environment with potential employers. Like any other JobBridge internship, the pilot PGPP will provide a systemic bridging between education and employment through the acquisition of new workplace relevant skills via a structured on-the-job professional experience. It is intended that this blend of education and skills will help graduates to gain real-workplace experience in increasingly specialised roles within the world-class industrial base here in Ireland.
The pilot PGPP will comprise three modules, each of 10 European Credit Transfer and Accumulation System (ECTS) credits: Personal Development and Employability; Organisational Context and Practice Specialisation; all aimed at ensuring that the participant gains knowledge, skills and competencies that both broaden and deepen their on-the-job learning. The Postgraduate course is free to jobseekers as it is being funded by the host organisation.
How it works
PGPP internship opportunities will be advertised by the host organisation on the JobBridge website. Interested applicants will make an application directly to the host organisation through the JobBridge website. Host organisations will be responsible for candidate selection and will notify applicants of the outcomes. Host organisations will be required to confirm the JobBridge eligibility of participants with the Department using the usual JobBridge mechanism (UP51c Form). The JobBridge infrastructure will be used to record and monitor participant progress.
The standard JobBridge eligibility criteria for jobseeker participation in the PGPP internships apply e.g., potential interns must be in receipt of Jobseekers Allowance, Jobseekers Benefit, One Parent Family Payment, Disability Allowance or signing for credits for at least 3 months (78 days) out of the last 6 months and have a live claim. Interns will receive a €50 weekly top-up in addition to their Social Welfare payments, if any. In addition jobseekers must have a relevant Level 8 qualification to be eligible to enrol in the Post Graduate Certificate in Professional Practice (PGPP).
Search for Opportunities
You can search for pilot JobBridge PGPP internship opportunities at: http://intern.jobbridge.ie/ using 'PGPP' as a keyword.0
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