The Jobbridge Scandal

jobbridge4life

Xenji wrote: »

Ah no he is right, it is in the rules of the scheme.

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/JobBridge-Interns.aspx#q5

My apologise I thought i had read that there was nothing to stop companies paying top ups but I see know that it was expenses.

thegreatgonzo

Internships are getting more common in veterinary nursing too. It annoys me because part of getting a vn qualification in the first place involves months of unpaid work placement anyway. On top of that once you qualify you have to pay to join the register of vet nurses and you have to pay to stay on this register every year thereafter. You also have to get enough continuing education credits to stay on the register every year and this also costs money. I feel sorry for any vet nurse who is the position of having worked for free for around 6 months already, paying approximately €200 to join the register and then the only option available to them is an internship that may or may not lead to a job after. It's not like it's a well paid job anyway so I really would lose a lot of respect for any clinic that goes down this route.

CramCycle

jank wrote: »

How did these people afford to live when they were in university? When you are young you have to do whats necessary to get on with it.

I worked full time while in college/university. If I wasn't employed though, my parents would not have been able to support me.

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

238 per week is not a livable wage, no matter what jank likes to think.

Its certainly not an appropriate wage but in some parts of the country it is live-able, if you have your accommodation covered via living with parents or qualifying for rent allowance, then several parts of the country it is doable. Unfortunately, the type of jobs that Jobbridge should be putting people into are generally not located in these areas (some are but most are not), most are in more built up areas where influx of fully paid workers and attraction to be close to their jobs means rents are higher, cost of living is more and landlords have a pick so can tell those who qualify for rent allowance to go swing if they feel like it.

I was wondering about the numbers of JB in Castlebar for example if people hate it so much, it being in EKs back yard. It then occurred to me that alot of people there might be living at home, looking for work but getting an extra 50quid a week for menial work where they are probably not pushed to hard isn't the worst thing in the world. 50quid extra is better than zero extra if the job is menial and the time and effort don't detract from looking for a real job.

My other experience of youth in Longford is that its also possible that may employers and employees could be scamming the system, with their employees claiming the dole + jobsbridge + a top up from their employer. I am not suggesting that this is happening but I am just saying, that it happened when I was younger (I didn't myself), no reason to suspect its not happening now.

Not making excuses but I can see why it works in some areas (even if it works in a way that it is not meant too).

Xenji

Well for the last 12 months in Castlebar you have had barely any entry position jobs offered that were not JobBridge, it is still the norm now and a whole generation has left the town, Enda has done nothing for Castlebar, the place is a ghost town now, lots of empty derelict buildings, barely any new business in over 2 years and a IT that is on its last legs.

God help the town if Baxter was to leave, it would be a complete disaster, as there is nothing else and nothing on the horizon.

darkpagandeath

When did Internships morph into this horrible unrelated activity ? Internships are for people who are doing degrees for example that last up to 5 years stuff like, Doctors, legal profession. You know stuff you actually need constant on the job training. It is a very American idea of doing internships in a fortune 500 company where you want to get in but there is huge competition so you will work for free. No one here can tell me with a straight face you need to work for 9 month in a office environment to learn what's going on. It's beyond a joke

CramCycle

darkpagandeath wrote: »

When did Internships morph into this horrible unrelated activity ? Internships are for people who are doing degrees for example that last up to 5 years stuff like, Doctors, legal profession. You know stuff you actually need constant on the job training. It is a very American idea of doing internships in a fortune 500 company where you want to get in but there is huge competition so you will work for free. No one here can tell me with a straight face you need to work for 9 month in a office environment to learn what's going on. It's beyond a joke

My sister is going to New York for an unpaid internship for 3 months, apparently the skills she will learn there cannot be taught at the minute by anyone in Ireland, or those who have them certainly don't teach anyone. Great for her, and your right, it is what an internship should be, give you skills you can't get in college, give you a taster for the job to see if you like and can handle it and more importantly, either give you a reference or have your seniors who know the job tell you, bluntly, that, well, its not for you, no matter what you think.

An internship is not a job that you can walk into and pick up pretty much every skill in under 10 days.

darkpagandeath

CramCycle wrote: »

My sister is going to New York for an unpaid internship for 3 months, apparently the skills she will learn there cannot be taught at the minute by anyone in Ireland, or those who have them certainly don't teach anyone. Great for her, and your right, it is what an internship should be, give you skills you can't get in college, give you a taster for the job to see if you like and can handle it and more importantly, either give you a reference or have your seniors who know the job tell you, bluntly, that, well, its not for you, no matter what you think.

An internship is not a job that you can walk into and pick up pretty much every skill in under 10 days.

Aye, Some of the stuff even small companies go on about these days in interviews you would swear they are hiring you for the NASA space program and not some crappy back office role.

jobbridge4life

darkpagandeath wrote: »

When did Internships morph into this horrible unrelated activity ? Internships are for people who are doing degrees for example that last up to 5 years stuff like, Doctors, legal profession. You know stuff you actually need constant on the job training. It is a very American idea of doing internships in a fortune 500 company where you want to get in but there is huge competition so you will work for free. No one here can tell me with a straight face you need to work for 9 month in a office environment to learn what's going on. It's beyond a joke

Of course one doesn't 'to learn whats going on' however one might need to avoid having a 12 month gap on their CV. Especially younger people.

languagenerd

jank wrote: »

How did these people afford to live when they were in university? When you are young you have to do whats necessary to get on with it.

At university, they afford to live by:
- their parents paying for them
- student grants
- student loans
- part-time, generally low-paid work

If you do an unpaid internship, the only one of these options is the first one. I ask again, do we honestly expect parents to continue paying for their adult children until well into their twenties?

No-one is looking for a free lifestyle. If the internship is truly an internship, you'll be learning skills that there's no other way of learning. It's not an internship if you're doing a full-time job autonomously, with little need for training! People should be paid for the work they do - that's the fundamental underpinning of our whole society.

BlatentCheek

languagenerd wrote: »

People should be paid for the work they do - that's the fundamental underpinning of our whole society.

It was the fundamental underpinning of our society.

Bosses took advantage of the recession to create a new normal where people are told they should be grateful for the chance to scrub floors for free - and they had plenty of people like "Iwasfrozen" willing to cheerlead for them (presumably in the expectation of a pat on the head or a few more crumbs from their master's table).

darkpagandeath

BlatentCheek wrote: »

It was the fundamental underpinning of our society.

Bosses took advantage of the recession to create a new normal where people are told they should be grateful for the chance to scrub floors for free - and they had plenty of people like "Iwasfrozen" willing to cheerlead for them (presumably in the expectation of a pat on the head or a few more crumbs from their master's table).

Well apparently our betters are not doing to good they are cut to the bone having to live on 3.5k a week. :pac:

the evasion_kid

BlatentCheek wrote: »

It was the fundamental underpinning of our society.

Bosses took advantage of the recession to create a new normal where people are told they should be grateful for the chance to scrub floors for free - and they had plenty of people like "Iwasfrozen" willing to cheerlead for them (presumably in the expectation of a pat on the head or a few more crumbs from their master's table).

Like when I was working in warehousing they got rid of agency employees and got some kids straight out of college in to stack boxes on pallets..... For 6 months!

What's that you thought you'd get a job at the end of 6 months....too bad!!....NEXT

Tony EH

Welcome to the future of Irish "work". :mad:

Don't worry though, there's more "work" where that came from. We're on the up, don't ya know!

:pac:

the evasion_kid

Tony EH wrote: »

Welcome to the future of Irish "work". :mad:

Don't worry though, there's more "work" where that came from. We're on the up, don't ya know!

:pac:

If you're willing to work for nothing there will always be plenty of it

shruikan2553

the evasion_kid wrote: »

If you're willing to work for nothing there will always be plenty of it

I cant wait until the landlord and electric ireland accept "I cant pay now but give me a few months and I can"

jank

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

Most people I knew in uni had their rent paid by their parents, or lived at home and had a part time job. It's pretty much impossible to be independent while earning what you get for JB.

What do you mean, you cannot be fully independent without a job. No $hit sherlock. Until one gets a job then one has to make do. This is why having a strong economy where people can avail of jobs, keep their hard earned money in their pocket (don't hand it over to the tax man) and people can go out take risks and create jobs..... Getting work experience via job bridge is one method to on the road to full time work.
If you want a silver bullet solution I suggest reading some Marvel comics....

Tombi!

jank wrote: »

What do you mean, you cannot be fully independent without a job. No $hit sherlock. Until one gets a job then one has to make do. This is why having a strong economy where people can avail of jobs, keep their hard earned money in their pocket (don't hand it over to the tax man) and people can go out take risks and create jobs..... Getting work experience via job bridge is one method to on the road to full time work.
If you want a silver bullet solution I suggest reading some Marvel comics....

So getting work experience doing work but not being paid so you can then work for more unpaid work for a total of 18+ months?

Mint Aero

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Of course one doesn't 'to learn whats going on' however one might need to avoid having a 12 month gap on their CV. Especially younger people.

Is this your logic. Younger people should be forced into slavery. If they dont work for free, we'll see to it that they'll have a 12 month gap on their CV. Viva le jobsbridge!

Get out of this country mate.

jank

Are you asking me how long is a piece of string?

jank

Mint Aero wrote: »

Is this your logic. Younger people should be forced into slavery. If they dont work for free, we'll see to it that they'll have a 12 month gap on their CV. Viva le jobsbridge!

Get out of this country mate.

When were slaves ever paid? To be honest your post is insulting to people who are actually slaves in some parts of the world today. Nobody is going to take you seriously when you use words like that?

tomwaterford

jank wrote: »

What do you mean, you cannot be fully independent without a job. No $hit sherlock. Until one gets a job then one has to make do. This is why having a strong economy where people can avail of jobs, keep their hard earned money in their pocket (don't hand it over to the tax man) and people can go out take risks and create jobs..... Getting work experience via job bridge is one method to on the road to full time work.
If you want a silver bullet solution I suggest reading some Marvel comics....

how can you genuinely not understand how paying for employees for companies makes them think fcuk it...ill not bother hiring someone getting the governmet to pay them instead

this will inevitabliy lead to a barrier to full time work

Tombi!

jank wrote: »

Are you asking me how long is a piece of string?

Sure. Let's use that analogy. So now you understand with this scheme, you have no way of knowing when you're "allowed" to work for a wage.

Mint Aero

jank wrote: »

When were slaves ever paid? To be honest your post is insulting to people who are actually slaves in some parts of the world today. Nobody is going to take you seriously when you use words like that?

Do you know some slaves personally? Ask them there are they offended, I'm sure they take pride in their work. I'll await theirs and yours response.

languagenerd

jank wrote: »

What do you mean, you cannot be fully independent without a job. No $hit sherlock. Until one gets a job then one has to make do. This is why having a strong economy where people can avail of jobs, keep their hard earned money in their pocket (don't hand it over to the tax man) and people can go out take risks and create jobs..... Getting work experience via job bridge is one method to on the road to full time work.
If you want a silver bullet solution I suggest reading some Marvel comics....

Ok, but:
(1) "Making do" is all well and good but have you ever tried to "make do" with €150 a week (JobBridge rates for 18-24 year olds) in a city where the rent for a flat is well over €1000 (even if you share, you're looking at €500 a month)? Again, with JobBridge hoovering up all the entry-level positions, parents are being forced to finance their offspring for far longer than they used to, eating into their disposable income and having repercussions on the economy as a whole.

(2) What about all the people, like myself and many of my friends, who can't apply for JobBridge because we've never been on the dole? The vast majority of internships are now JobBridge only, we can't apply for them. How do we get the experience?

Look, on paper, JobBridge sounds great. People can't get jobs because they have no experience - let's give them the chance to get that experience and top up their dole a bit at the same time. It makes perfect sense. EXCEPT... It's been poorly regulated and abused since the start, meaning the entire youth employment market has been decimated, real unskilled jobs have been converted into "internships" (no-one needs 9 months unpaid training to be able to man a till in Tesco, or to clean a school) and actual valuable internships (in the truest sense of the word) have been cut off from half the people who would willingly do one.

And I'm sorry, but I don't think people should be happy to work 40hr weeks for nothing. If a business owner needs a job done, (s)he should pay for it. It's pure exploitation and it's destroying a whole generation.

tomwaterford

languagenerd wrote: »

Ok, but:
(1) "Making do" is all well and good but have you ever tried to "make do" with €150 a week (JobBridge rates for 18-24 year olds) in a city where the rent for a flat is well over €1000 (even if you share, you're looking at €500 a month)? Again, with JobBridge hoovering up all the entry-level positions, parents are being forced to finance their offspring for far longer than they used to, eating into their disposable income and having repercussions on the economy as a whole.

(2) What about all the people, like myself and many of my friends, who can't apply for JobBridge because I've never been on the dole? The vast majority of internship are now JobBridge only, we can't apply for them. How do we get the experience?

Look, on paper, JobBridge sounds great. People can't get jobs because they have no experience - let's give them the chance to get that experience and top up their dole a bit at the same time. It makes perfect sense. EXCEPT... It's been poorly regulated and abused since the start, meaning the entire youth employment market has been decimated, real unskilled jobs have been converted into "internships" (no-one needs 9 months unpaid training to be able to man a till in Tesco, or to clean a school) and actual valuable internships (in the truest sense of the word) have been cut off from half the people who would willingly do one.

And I'm sorry, but I don't think people should be happy to work 40hr weeks for nothing. If a business owner needs a job done, (s)he should pay for it. It's pure exploitation and it's destroying a whole generation.

ot else get the business owner to pay 100% tax on any profit he/she makes off the person there hiring through jobbridge...sure if they cant afford to pay the intern...then effectively this tax should in theory at least be v.low....but enough to cut out the messers

Iwasfrozen

tomwaterford wrote: »

ot else get the business owner to pay 100% tax on any profit he/she makes off the person there hiring through jobbridge...sure if they cant afford to pay the intern...then effectively this tax should in theory at least be v.low....but enough to cut out the messers

How on Earth would that be calculated?

tomwaterford

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

How on Earth would that be calculated?

very easily I would imagine.....do most jobs not do work books etc??

or in thr case of the car wash interns...price per wash - cost per wash per car done by intern???

Iwasfrozen

tomwaterford wrote: »

very easily I would imagine.....do most jobs not do work books etc??

or in thr case of the car wash interns...price per wash - cost per wash per car done by intern???

Minus the coat of training I presume don't you see how that could be exploited?

In most large companies workers are cogs in a large machine, they don't directly produce anything of value and they don't directly consume any tangible amount of resources.

the evasion_kid

tomwaterford wrote: »

very easily I would imagine.....do most jobs not do work books etc??

or in thr case of the car wash interns...price per wash - cost per wash per car done by intern???

Car wash interns ?!?!? Well holy god

Xenji

the evasion_kid wrote: »

Car wash interns ?!?!? Well holy god

Sandwich artists, photocopier technicians, car valets, deli assistants, stock assistants.....the list goes on, well over 50% percent of most offered internships should be banned on the scheme.