The Jobbridge Scandal

tomwaterford

Xenji wrote: »

Sandwich artists, photocopier technicians, car valets, deli assistants, stock assistants.....the list goes on, 80% percent of most offered internships should be banned on the scheme.

on paper a very good scheme....in reality as with everything in Ireland....gombeens ruin it to make handy money for emselves/there friends

darkpagandeath

One thing I don't get is why do people that have become unemployed need experience in working ?

Tearin It Up

I came across the response some guy got when he queried why there was a waiter internship for nine months, a factory internship and in a launderette.

This is the response he got. See the screenshot attached.

I can't believe they are justifying these roles by saying that so long as the employers show that interns receive a broad and practical work experience with learning outcomes for the intern.
To give them the knowledge and skills to explore a new career path.

An organic vegetable sales administer,
Packing, preparing and selling vegetables. That's a new career path? Its demoralising BS to not get paid for menial jobs.

http://intern.jobbridge.ie/Default.aspx?q=dYd9hzSXOBgVahfuvHswmd8QQg8QFbO29YTM39LtVAFyLfzN6VOq3UP74xMoyrGR0Fc3TSy9wR5dLTWyFw3G61kE3tnxpuSKtD+RVOdVKSPFfgdfMtVxEf/Q8v0dCRMlnqLk8e/YqID1SsmkaDUd+S3iMGvDBTK6kaU1zfAeIS/nJhdgZKIKHNFgulq7PchmJd407NVD2F7j4+BEPFLzTcxvthsQPxtPT/3jAas+ItRXI3atEOmi7VVS35QRqSWa8fAjsyVirBfPFPrudV6nZNQE65OSdjxgJYAFlt1QR7c3wmqFyIrBikq5G8EygIOTtU2KdpCejTOoLTkG1LzC6dIsGa/ZNihotqeo3pxDNPsEQnUC/4q9tx6CJfBbTZNWF/wWdcMo1Sxz+gwJ49fzfLCAtI7srPXxnSlyC0bR33S3V5itOq9q/k6Qzi7RxTNjevoFTe/NpbKtuShHOgz07Q==

PopePalpatine

jank wrote: »

What do you mean, you cannot be fully independent without a job. No $hit sherlock. Until one gets a job then one has to make do. This is why having a strong economy where people can avail of jobs, keep their hard earned money in their pocket (don't hand it over to the tax man) and people can go out take risks and create jobs..... Getting work experience via job bridge is one method to on the road to full time work.
If you want a silver bullet solution I suggest reading some Marvel comics....

You're not advocating tax-dodging, are you?

jank

darkpagandeath wrote: »

One thing I don't get is why do people that have become unemployed need experience in working ?

Retraining in a different field and/or skillset?

jank

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Sure. Let's use that analogy. So now you understand with this scheme, you have no way of knowing when you're "allowed" to work for a wage.

You are legally allowed to work for a wage at 16.

Tombi!

jank wrote: »

You are legally allowed to work for a wage at 16.

You're legally allowed to work for a wage at any age.
My point is that you're advocating the idea of "you need training to do training to do more training to say you did training to maybe get some experience which will not guarantee you a job at entry level despite doing nine months or more at an entry level position and being trained for it".

jimgoose

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

You're legally allowed to work for a wage at any age.
My point is that you're advocating the idea of "you need training to do training to do more training to say you did training to maybe get some experience which will not guarantee you a job at entry level despite doing nine months or more at an entry level position and being trained for it".

That's not fair. What about the Learning Outcomes For Make Benefit Glorious Pathways To Success??

Tombi!

You what?
What's that? I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not

jimgoose

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

You what?
What's that? I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not

Think "Borat".

Tombi!

Alright now I'm even more confused. I remember the film.

jank

PopePalpatine wrote: »

You're not advocating tax-dodging, are you?

I am advocating a low tax economy where effort and work is rewarded and where government is thus curtailed in having grandiose plans to buy votes for goodies promised. We had very high taxes in the 80's which I remember and lived through, maybe you don't remember or are to young (tiger cub?). The results were not pretty then and they won't be pretty if we went back to it.

jimgoose

jank wrote: »

I am advocating a low tax economy where effort and work is rewarded and where government is thus curtailed in having grandiose plans to buy votes for goodies promised. We had very high taxes in the 80's which I remember and lived through, maybe you don't remember or are to young (tiger cub?). The results were not pretty then and they won't be pretty if we went back to it.

Oddly enough, I couldn't agree more!

darkpagandeath

jank wrote: »

Retraining in a different field and/or skillset?

That's the kind of nonsense that they use to justify this scheme. If you have been working in the real world for most of your life and not in a highly specialized field you don't need to.

dxhound2005

jank wrote: »

I am advocating a low tax economy where effort and work is rewarded and where government is thus curtailed in having grandiose plans to buy votes for goodies promised. We had very high taxes in the 80's which I remember and lived through, maybe you don't remember or are to young (tiger cub?). The results were not pretty then and they won't be pretty if we went back to it.

You will probably remember the reason for 35/45/60% income tax rates was the decision to do away with property tax (election of 1977, budget of 1978).

Some people are still trying to say the model which was created then is the correct one i.e. only workers pay for everyone's local services. Despite the history of subsequent administrations finding out that this simply is not possible. Hence separate bin charges, LPT and now direct charging for water.

Some people are very slow learners when it comes to economics.

jank

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

You're legally allowed to work for a wage at any age.
My point is that you're advocating the idea of "you need training to do training to do more training to say you did training to maybe get some experience which will not guarantee you a job at entry level despite doing nine months or more at an entry level position and being trained for it".

So we can have 5 year old's cleaning pots and pans in a jhotel kitchen.. me thinks not!
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/starting_work_and_changing_job/young_people_at_work/rights_of_young_workers.html

It is quite simple. If one does not posses the required experience or skills for a job then they do not get that job, someone else with MORE experience will get it. I have been turned down for jobs because someone else was more experienced. **** happens, you just get on with it.

If they need experience the one way of getting it is by unpaid internships or via job bridge.

Tombi!

Actually, I'm right. You can work at pretty much any age. Now, if you can work and earn a wage as in the terms of legal employment is a different story. But I know plenty of kids now still do have to do chores, ie work, to get their weekly pocket money or whatever you want to call it.
I've known kids in school that would often "help out" at their local shop/pub/wherever doing basic tasks and earning a few quid.

I understand completely the entire idea of needing experience but we're talking entry level jobs here, that require training for nine months. If I told you that I wouldn't let you make me coffee without nine months of training, what would you think of me?

Tombi!

Just to add to the first part, I'm not trying to be technical or anything. I'm stating that you can do work even underage by helping out and that is still a way of earning experience. Experience can be gotten a lot of ways; ways that don't include nine months of replacing a job.

DrGreenthumb

JobBridge testomonials,


Tomo from Finglas,

"I was a bit sk-skeptikal about this whole thing, but since joinin I haven't looked back. The gaff used to be a bleedin mess but thanks to the shelf stacking skills I learned at tesco the house has never been tydier. They also show us how to lift and move heavy shít . Now I move the fridge on a regular basis, just because yea know I can and I didn't think I could before. If it wasn't for jobsbridge I'd be on me ear, and the extra cash means a few more beers at the end of the week."

darkpagandeath

I would like to add to this retraining lark. How come I have gone from supermarket to cabinet maker to antique restoration to IT all while being paid to work. When did people stop being adaptable to your situation ? I have never ever done an internship. I have always been paid for a days work.

Tombi!

In fairness, I don't think the whole "retraining" idea is bad. It's just that it's all one blanket rule, really.

Let's take two different skill sets. A cashier in a shop and something a fair bit more complicated skill wise, a receptionist who needs skills on a PC.

One of them could (at most) learned in a week and the other might take a fair bit longer assuming both have no idea how to work at the job. So why is it that both of them are given nine months?

jank

darkpagandeath wrote: »

That's the kind of nonsense that they use to justify this scheme. If you have been working in the real world for most of your life and not in a highly specialized field you don't need to.

Interviewer: So Mr X, how many years have you been working as a software developer.
Mr X: Zero but I worked in a factory for 25 years making PC's!
.....
...
.
.

Interviewer: So Mrs Y, How many years have you been working as a software developer.
Mrs Y: Well after I graduated from college with my Software engineering degree, I worked as an intern for 12 months for a small local development shop where I honed by skills and worked as part of a small team of developers. There I mostly undertook QA work before monthly upgrades and bug fixes were released to clients. Since then, I have been working for the past 3 years for [insert random multinational] as part of global development team. Primarily my coding skills are in Python and SQL where by I use these skills in a team developing tools to be used for the R&D dept which mine large data sets under the Hadoop framework. My specialists lie in writing features for mapreduce where by I created functions [x,Y,Z] for the benefit of the business....etc..etc...
....
...
..
.

Guess who gets the job? The person with more 'work' experience or the person with the RELEVANT experience...

Tony EH

tomwaterford wrote: »

on paper a very good scheme....in reality as with everything in Ireland....gombeens ruin it to make handy money for emselves/there friends

And government are more than happy to allow it to happen.

Tony EH

darkpagandeath wrote: »

One thing I don't get is why do people that have become unemployed need experience in working ?

Because cünts don't want to pay people for their labour.

dxhound2005

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I would like to add to this retraining lark. How come I have gone from supermarket to cabinet maker to antique restoration to IT all while being paid to work. When did people stop being adaptable to your situation ? I have never ever done an internship. I have always been paid for a days work.

You are the norm. Jobbridge is a very tiny feature of the employment scene. There are a maximum of 8,500 positions at any time and usually less than 7,000 of these are filled. Out of a potential workforce of 2.3 million and 1.95 million of us at work. The impact of Jobbridge is being exaggerated by some people.

Tombi!

jank, you're missing the entire point. On purpose, I think.
I sincerely doubt anyone in this thread so far is against the scheme is 100% wanting to remove it.

It's clearly the fact that it's nine months mixed with the fact that you have entry level positions.

John down the road might have done 25 years shipping PCs around a warehouse and from there to a truck and might not be a software developer. He might indeed need those nine months of training to be a software developer.
But meanwhile, Bob who did spend 25 years developing software does not, under any realistic scenario need nine months to ship PCs from a warehouse to a truck,

darkpagandeath

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You are the norm. Jobbridge is a very tiny feature of the employment scene. There are a maximum of 8,500 positions at any time and usually less than 7,000 of these are filled. Out of a potential workforce of 2.3 million and 1.95 million of us at work. The impact of Jobbridge is being exaggerated by some people.

What about the 89k on various schemes ?

Tombi!

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You are the norm. Jobbridge is a very tiny feature of the employment scene. There are a maximum of 8,500 positions at any time and usually less than 7,000 of these are filled. Out of a potential workforce of 2.3 million and 1.95 million of us at work. The impact of Jobbridge is being exaggerated by some people.

Oh definitely on the fact it hasn't got a massive impact or maybe it has.

Here's the thing, it's being marketed as a "good thing" to get people working again. But it's not. See my post above replying to jank. The problem is also it's shown as a way out of the unemployment crisis for a lot of people. Which is horrible when you think about it. There are more horror stories than success, at least online with people talking about them.

Iwasfrozen

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

In fairness, I don't think the whole "retraining" idea is bad. It's just that it's all one blanket rule, really.

Let's take two different skill sets. A cashier in a shop and something a fair bit more complicated skill wise, a receptionist who needs skills on a PC.

One of them could (at most) learned in a week and the other might take a fair bit longer assuming both have no idea how to work at the job. So why is it that both of them are given nine months?

Once again, no body is being forced to undertake these internships, I don't know how that fact keeps getting overlooked.

doolox

... is a contradiction in terms. A chef is a chief in a kitchen. The leader, The boss. In any unit there should be people under his direction, washing dishes, preparing the simpler items of a given product or meal etc. I would rate a chef higher than a waiter or other front line staff as the whole set-up depends on his skills and expertise to run. Yet this guy was on minimum wage. What do they pay their dish-washers, porters cleaners etc?? Less than min or the same as legally they cant go lower. The program stated that he was on min wage for the last 9 yrs!! What kind of person would stick at a particular sector or job type for 9 yrs on 8.65 per hr, less than 400 pw???