The Jobbridge Scandal

Tombi!

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Once again, no body is being forced to undertake these internships, I don't know how that fact keeps getting overlooked.

I'm going to be blunt: I think you're benefiting from the scheme and that's why you defend it. That's not what bothers me. Not the why. What bothers me is how you're defending it.

By all means explain, please, explain. Why is it okay, in any situation to think it's okay to say "you need nine months to learn to work at a coffee shop or to learn how to be a receptionist at busy company" and say it with sincerity.

How the f**k can you actually state that it's fine because "you don't have to go for it since it's something you don't like". It's not a matter of "it's not for me". It's a matter of a training for an entry level position in what's often considered someone's first job, even as a teenager at the age of 16, while still in fecking school, be told "you need nine months before we even consider you worth of paying".

Smidge

jank wrote: »

Interviewer: So Mr X, how many years have you been working as a software developer.
Mr X: Zero but I worked in a factory for 25 years making PC's!
.....
...
.
.

Interviewer: So Mrs Y, How many years have you been working as a software developer.
Mrs Y: Well after I graduated from college with my Software engineering degree, I worked as an intern for 12 months for a small local development shop where I honed by skills and worked as part of a small team of developers. There I mostly undertook QA work before monthly upgrades and bug fixes were released to clients. Since then, I have been working for the past 3 years for [insert random multinational] as part of global development team. Primarily my coding skills are in Python and SQL where by I use these skills in a team developing tools to be used for the R&D dept which mine large data sets under the Hadoop framework. My specialists lie in writing features for mapreduce where by I created functions [x,Y,Z] for the benefit of the business....etc..etc...
....
...
..
.

Guess who gets the job? The person with more 'work' experience or the person with the RELEVANT experience...

Are you telling us Jank, that Jobsbridge is retraining people in 9 months on a Jobsbridge scheme to be, at the end of the 9 months, a full trained Software developer?
If so,(and we not this isnt the case but I really want to see how high you are willing to build this particular strawman)great. Jobsbridge would be lauded if this were the case.
But its not.
Funny that :rolleyes:

Tombi!

doolox wrote: »

... is a contradiction in terms. A chef is a chief in a kitchen. The leader, The boss. In any unit there should be people under his direction, washing dishes, preparing the simpler items of a given product or meal etc. I would rate a chef higher than a waiter or other front line staff as the whole set-up depends on his skills and expertise to run. Yet this guy was on minimum wage. What do they pay their dish-washers, porters cleaners etc?? Less than min or the same as legally they cant go lower. The program stated that he was on min wage for the last 9 yrs!! What kind of person would stick at a particular sector or job type for 9 yrs on 8.65 per hr, less than 400 pw???

There could be a bit more to this. I mean a chef in some takeaway is a fair bit different from a chef in a restaurant that costs around 20 euro for a dinner for one

dxhound2005

darkpagandeath wrote: »

What about the 89k on various schemes ?

This thread is about Jobbridge. But if you have some point to make about the schemes, the figures are here on the relevant Annex. 6,000 Jobbridge, 80,000 others, about half of which are education and training.

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/lr/liveregisterjanuary2015/

Daenarys

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Once again, no body is being forced to undertake these internships, I don't know how that fact keeps getting overlooked.

Are you still up? You've work in the morning!

Xenji

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Once again, no body is being forced to undertake these internships, I don't know how that fact keeps getting overlooked.

While nobody is forced to take these internships, jobs are being taken from people who actually want to work and have no interest in doing an internship and why should they when these jobs prior to the scheme being introduced were proper paying jobs, people can go on about the percentage of jobs these internships take, but when you are in a small town it can have a very negative effect when real jobs are few and far between in the first place and every entry position form stocking shelves to working as a clothes shop assistant is a jobbridge.

I know where I work, managers know that most staff that come in on Jobbridge and we have a revolving door will never have a chance in future interviews with their Jobbridge experience as they know they were never properly trained or made do the work they were actually taken on to do.

Tombi!

Daenarys, don't take sly digs like that please.
Stick to the topic

Iwasfrozen

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

I'm going to be blunt: I think you're benefiting from the scheme and that's why you defend it. That's not what bothers me. Not the why. What bothers me is how you're defending it.

By all means explain, please, explain. Why is it okay, in any situation to think it's okay to say "you need nine months to learn to work at a coffee shop or to learn how to be a receptionist at busy company" and say it with sincerity.

How the f**k can you actually state that it's fine because "you don't have to go for it since it's something you don't like". It's not a matter of "it's not for me". It's a matter of a training for an entry level position in what's often considered someone's first job, even as a teenager at the age of 16, while still in fecking school, be told "you need nine months before we even consider you worth of paying".

I will also be blunt. I'm not benefiting from the scheme. But I have seen it benefit people in my office who were participants and now work there.

If a person doesn't want to do a particular internship then just skip over over it I don't see why that's so hard to understand.

Tombi!

Actually, a while back in the thread (I think it was this one), someone mentioned they asked about a job and was told it was changed to a jobbridge position.
Has anyone heard anything else like this?

Iwasfrozen

Xenji wrote: »

While nobody is forced to take these internships, jobs are being taken from people who actually want to work and have no interest in doing an internship and why should they when these jobs prior to the scheme being introduced were proper paying jobs, people can go on about the percentage of jobs these internships take, but when you are in a small town it can have a very negative effect when real jobs are few and far between in the first place and every entry position for stocking shelves to working as a clothes shop assistant is a jobbridge.

A company can only take on an internship if they already have at least one fully time employee, and to take on more than one they have 10+ full times employees.

In a small business like coffee shops especially it wouldn't be practical to actually replace full time employees with interns.

Tombi!

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I will also be blunt. I'm not benefiting from the scheme. But I have seen it benefit people in my office who were participants and now work there.

If a person doesn't want to do a particular internship then just skip over over it I don't see why that's so hard to understand.

Fair enough, I wasn't trying to be a bother. It's just look at the example jank gave then I changed to how it would work on JB. I understand completely if I wanted to be a journalist and I see an internship (not a JB) for a receptionist.
I skip that one. It's not for me.

But the problem with JBs is they're a minimum of six months (AFAIK; I think it's still six).
When you're telling me that I need six months to be a self stacker or a bar tender or a coffee shop employee, then how can you defend those ones. Not the scheme in general; in general it's fine if used properly.

Xenji

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

A company can only take on an internship if they already have at least one fully time employee, and to take on more than one they have 10+ full times employees.

In a small business like coffee shops especially it wouldn't be practical to actually replace full time employees with interns.

Did you actually read what I posted, your reply has absolutely nothing to do with it :rolleyes:

civis_liberalis

Spied a company advertising a JobBridge position there and anyone who is even remotely familiar with the company knows that there is no possibility of a job whatsoever after those 9 months.

As a stupid question, but does that not have to be a requirement? Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way.

Tombi!

civis_liberalis wrote: »

Spied a company advertising a JobBridge position there and anyone who is even remotely familiar with the company knows that there is no possibility of a job whatsoever after those 9 months.

As a stupid question, but does that not have to be a requirement? Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way.

No. AFAIK I know. Xenji might be able to correct me. But from what I know of it, it's just training you. No job has to be given or even guaranteed.

Xenji

civis_liberalis wrote: »

Spied a company advertising a JobBridge position there and anyone who is even remotely familiar with the company knows that there is no possibility of a job whatsoever after those 9 months.

As a stupid question, but does that not have to be a requirement? Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way.

Nope, we have taken on over a 100 interns since the scheme inception and we are not able to hire a single one once they finish, actually people will be brought in for interviews to replace the current intern and the internship is just given a new name within the department, they start the monday after the prior intern leaves, you can have anywhere between 5-7 working in a department at any given time.

evolving_doors

jank wrote: »

People still unhappy with Jobbridge I see but I remember when I was a student, getting work experience was usually unpaid (i.e. no money at all) and very difficult to get. If this helps people get experience then it can be a valuable tool towards full time employment.

Is there anywhere you wouldnt approve of jobbridge jank?
Doctors, dentists, nurses.... teachers?

Tearin It Up

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

No. AFAIK I know. Xenji might be able to correct me. But from what I know of it, it's just training you. No job has to be given or even guaranteed.

Training you in mostly sh!te.

Very few meaningful internships.

civis_liberalis

Xenji wrote: »

Nope, we have taken on over a 100 interns since the scheme inception and we are not able to hire a single one once they finish, actually people will be brought in for interviews to replace the current intern and the internship is just given a new name within the department, they start the monday after the prior intern leaves, you can have anywhere between 5-7 working in a department at any given time.

Christ on a bike...

Tombi!

Armelodie wrote: »

Tool indeed

Stop with the name calling

Tony EH

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Actually, a while back in the thread (I think it was this one), someone mentioned they asked about a job and was told it was changed to a jobbridge position.
Has anyone heard anything else like this?

Well, I personally know of one girl who was working as a P.A. who was let go from her job and then found out that it had been farmed out to a jobbridge person, who after 9 months was replaced by another Jobbridge person.

A cycle that set to continue, I'm sure.

Xenji

civis_liberalis wrote: »

Christ on a bike...

Tell me about it, Co Co as well.

Tombi!

Tony, I'm positive I read something about it not being allowed if you let someone go from that position (as in a proper employee) that you can't advertise a JB for that position but I'm pretty sure that it's just the exact same position; I'm sure it's fine to have the JB person do the same job under another position

Tony EH

Xenji wrote: »

Nope, we have taken on over a 100 interns since the scheme inception and we are not able to hire a single one once they finish

THAT is just fücking outrageous.

Tony EH

Armelodie wrote: »

Is there anywhere you wouldnt approve of jobbridge jank?
Doctors, dentists, nurses.... teachers?

Yeh, HIS job.

dxhound2005

Unpaid internships are common in the UK and the USA.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/feb/26/businesses-back-calls-for-limits-to-lengths-of-unpaid-internships

A lot of it seems to be in the "professions". Plenty of those are available on Jobbridge as well but for some reason people only ever seem to look up placements for shelf stackers. How about checking out postions with accountancy or architectural businesses?

Xenji

Tony EH wrote: »

THAT is just fücking outrageous.

Blame the moratorium on hiring that government brought in, all manner of schemes have been used to keep the county councils afloat when they have been crying out for workers, even with the limited hiring they are doing now it really has no effect outside the big hubs, so Jobbridge and now Gateway are constantly used.

Tony EH

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Tony, I'm positive I read something about it not being allowed if you let someone go from that position (as in a proper employee) that you can't advertise a JB for that position but I'm pretty sure that it's just the exact same position; I'm sure it's fine to have the JB person do the same job under another position

Yes, but if you call the position something else...

A little bit of jiggery pokery and hey presto...

Tombi!

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Unpaid internships are common in the UK and the USA.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/feb/26/businesses-back-calls-for-limits-to-lengths-of-unpaid-internships

A lot of it seems to be in the "professions". Plenty of those are available on Jobbridge as well but for some reason people only ever seem to look up placements for shelf stackers. How about checking out postions with accountancy or architectural businesses?

That's the part that people don't seem to misunderstand. The scheme is fine in theory. It's the fact that these self stacks are even being considered "internships" that ruins it.

DraganGTD

Imo Job bridge is a good idea for people to get a work experience BUT to be working for 9 months that's a ridiculous BIG TIME!!! Should be 3 months and that would be more then enough. ( For a week time it's amazing what can be learned)

Also, If a company cant not afford to pay an employee properly then it's better to close its doors.
All this scheme is nothing then slavery.

Smidge

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Tony, I'm positive I read something about it not being allowed if you let someone go from that position (as in a proper employee) that you can't advertise a JB for that position but I'm pretty sure that it's just the exact same position; I'm sure it's fine to have the JB person do the same job under another position

That appears to be what some of these scam employers are at. They just "retitle" the position. So instead of PA it could be Office clerk or assistant etc.
Ways around everything.