The Jobbridge Scandal

the evasion_kid

My sister is currently on a job bridge scheme as a receptionist and was told today she would be let go,she's not allowed leave the premises for lunch and has to get up come around from the reception desk, and tap in the number code and open the door for people who are well capable of doing this themselves......just to really make a dog of ya

dxhound2005

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

That's the part that people don't seem to misunderstand. The scheme is fine in theory. It's the fact that these self stacks are even being considered "internships" that ruins it.

Which is why a lot of them seem to remain unfilled. That is the best way, just ignore them. Could you design a scheme which excluded certain types of employment or certain groups of employers without running the risk of legal challenges? Much simpler to leave it open to everyone, limit the placements to 8,500 and let it regulate itself. These are the most recent Jobbridge ads, people can choose to apply for them or stay on the dole.

http://intern.jobbridge.ie/

Tony EH

Smidge wrote: »

That appears to be what some of these scam employers are at. They just "retitle" the position. So instead of PA it could be Office clerk or assistant etc.
Ways around everything.

Bingo.

Just to elaborate on what I said earlier, the girl (actually she's a woman :pac: ) was let go as a P.A. A few weeks later she found out that another girl was hired and doing her job (the exact same tasks), except she was called an "Administrative Assistant".

It really is enough to make you puke.

Tearin It Up

the evasion_kid wrote: »

My sister is currently on a job bridge scheme as a receptionist and was told today she would be let go,she's not allowed leave the premises for lunch and has to get up come around from the reception desk, and tap in the number code and open the door for people who are well capable of doing this themselves......just to really make a dog of ya

Next slave up

Tombi!

dx, the thing is though why even allow them?
If your position requires little learnable skills or experience or education. why in the f*** are you "training" someone in it to potentially get a job in the same position.

I want to work in a coffee shop. What do I need to learn? Let's go down the advanced stuff first. Making coffee. Customer service (that definitely comes with experience really). Er, sweeping a floor? wiping down a table? Learning to read what the cleaning chemicals are.

You see where I'm going with this. Those do not, under any realistic scenario need the six or nine months.

Xenji

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Which is why a lot of them seem to remain unfilled. That is the best way, just ignore them. Could you design a scheme which excluded certain types of employment or certain groups of employers without running the risk of legal challenges? Much simpler to leave it open to everyone, limit the placements to 8,500 and let it regulate itself. These are the most recent Jobbridge ads, people can choose to apply for them or stay on the dole.

http://intern.jobbridge.ie/

In some towns though these internships that should be unfilled are the only ones available so people have no choice, before internships are offered on the website they should be vetted thoroughly and the scheme could redeem itself and stop exploitation and abuses that do happen, it seems to have barely and sort of regulation and I know for a fact that nobody gets checked on where I work till their last 1-2 weeks.

I mentioned this before but I have seen plenty of internships offered through various job sites online that never make it to the official website, that is something that needs to be cracked down on as well, people really seem to be chancing their arm, although I am not sure how this would work with Solas.

Tombi!

Xenji, you seem to have a good idea of the scheme.
Maybe you could answer this for me.
You mentioned positions not being on the main JB website but being advertised on job sites in general.

Wouldn't they still have to go through the social welfare? Or are you trying to say that the JB scheme is becoming okay to advertise on job websites and it's becoming "normal"?

Smidge

Tony EH wrote: »

Bingo.

Just to elaborate on what I said earlier, the girl (actually she's a woman :pac: ) was let go as a P.A. A few weeks later she found out that another girl was hired and doing her job (the exact same tasks), except she was called an "Administrative Assistant".

It really is enough to make you puke.

Its become well known at this stage.
Anyone still defending this scam should be treated with the utmost suspicion as they must surely have a vested interest as anyone who wants to see this country back on its feet and people working in a real job for an honest wage, sees this as what it really is.
Free labour. Nothing more.

languagenerd

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

If a person doesn't want to do a particular internship then just skip over over it I don't see why that's so hard to understand.

You're missing the point. The problem is not the relevance of the internship - no-one's here complaining that there are loads of accounting internships when they want to be a lawyer. Obviously people don't apply to ones they're not interested in.

The problem is that JobBridge is replacing actual jobs. Shop owners that used to hire minimum-wage workers are now just taking interns instead, companies who used to pay people to run their social media accounts are just getting interns to do it for free, some public bodies who used to contract cleaners are just getting interns etc.

So people, particularly young people, cannot get jobs, because the jobs are gone.

And a lot of people on JobBridge are doing actual jobs - not training, not shadowing, not gradually building up skills - actual jobs, for 40hrs a week, and the company doesn't have to pay them. The govt are taking over the company's responsibilities and the worker gets paid for less than half the hours they're working (€150 = about 17hrs at minimum wage).

And places that used to do actual valid internships (for the sort of careers that you need them) have turned them to JobBridge ones, locking out people who aren't on the dole and taking away their chances of getting on the ladder.

Xenji

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Xenji, you seem to have a good idea of the scheme.
Maybe you could answer this for me.
You mentioned positions not being on the main JB website but being advertised on job sites in general.

Wouldn't they still have to go through the social welfare? Or are you trying to say that the JB scheme is becoming okay to advertise on job websites and it's becoming "normal"?

That is something I would like to know myself, I see these jobs offered and then wonder are they chancing their arm or is it something we do not know about, we have to go through the proper channels, but I have heard of people also having an interview for a real job and then the potential employer trying to offer them a Jobbridge instead.

DrGreenthumb

the evasion_kid wrote: »

My sister is currently on a job bridge scheme as a receptionist and was told today she would be let go,she's not allowed leave the premises for lunch and has to get up come around from the reception desk, and tap in the number code and open the door for people who are well capable of doing this themselves......just to really make a dog of ya

Sounds like your sister is a door mat,

do people not have a spine anymore, cant leave for lunch she should say watch me, its a job you can walk out of anytime you want tell them to get ****éd, is she worried she'll lose her massive wage or opportunity to one day own the company,

i implore everyone in a jobsbridge job they hate to just do the job as badly as you possibly can,

dxhound2005

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

dx, the thing is though why even allow them?
If your position requires little learnable skills or experience or education. why in the f*** are you "training" someone in it to potentially get a job in the same position.

I want to work in a coffee shop. What do I need to learn? Let's go down the advanced stuff first. Making coffee. Customer service (that definitely comes with experience really). Er, sweeping a floor? wiping down a table? Learning to read what the cleaning chemicals are.

You see where I'm going with this. Those do not, under any realistic scenario need the six or nine months.

Someone will have to come up with a comprehensive list of employment types which are excluded. And by extension someone will have to vet each prospective placement to see how long it should take to learn that job. And then limit the placement accordingly. You have ruled out work in coffee shops but who is going to come up with the full list of exclusions? Look at this list again and tell me which of these placements are OK and which are not. Just the first page.

http://intern.jobbridge.ie/

Tombi!

I didn't rule out anything yet.
I'm making it clear that some "jobs" (and I use that term loosely since you're supposed to be looking for a job on JB), are taking the mick. But hey, if you want to hire me to work for the social welfare to do that, I'd gladly do it.

the evasion_kid

DrGreenthumb wrote: »

Sounds like your sister is a door mat,

do people not have a spine anymore, cant leave for lunch she should say watch me, its a job you can walk out of anytime you want tell them to get ****éd, is she worried she'll lose her massive wage or opportunity to one day own the company,

i implore everyone in a jobsbridge job they hate to just do the job as badly as you possibly can,

She's an interview tomorrow for a paying job and if she gets it she's going to tell them go fcuk themselves!

Tombi!

I'm quite sure she can tell the SW it's not working out. AFAIK, she's completely entitled to do that without her payment being affected.

Unless she had a stupid reason like "didn't wanna wake up in the mornings".

Xenji

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Someone will have to come up with a comprehensive list of employment types which are excluded. And by extension someone will have to vet each prospective placement to see how long it should take to learn that job. And then limit the placement accordingly. You have ruled out work in coffee shops but who is going to come up with the full list of exclusions? Look at this list again and tell me which of these placements are OK and which are not. Just the first page.

http://intern.jobbridge.ie/

Dairy Herd Assistant
House Assistant
Sales Assistant
Sales Assistant
Retail Sales Assistant
Jewellery Studio - Marketing Assistant
Receptionist /Sales Assistant
GP Sales Representative (North East Leinster)
GP Sales Representative (South East Leinster)
GP Sales Representative (South West)
Print Shop Assistant
Sales & Marketing Executive
Sales & Marketing Executive
Activities Co-Ordinator
External Sales Executive
Telesales Administrator
Marketing & Business Development Manager ( It is a car dealership )
Gym & Fitness Instructor

None of the above should be allowed.

Smidge

Xenji wrote: »

Dairy Herd Assistant
House Assistant
Sales Assistant
Sales Assistant
Retail Sales Assistant
Jewellery Studio - Marketing Assistant
Receptionist /Sales Assistant
GP Sales Representative (North East Leinster)
GP Sales Representative (South East Leinster)
GP Sales Representative (South West)
Print Shop Assistant
Sales & Marketing Executive
Sales & Marketing Executive
Activities Co-Ordinator
External Sales Executive
Telesales Administrator
Marketing & Business Development Manager ( It is a car dealership )
Gym & Fitness Instructor

None of the above should be allowed.

Christ on a bike, I've done half of the jobs on that list in my time and was remunerated for it.
Sickening exploitation.

jank

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Actually, I'm right. You can work at pretty much any age. Now, if you can work and earn a wage as in the terms of legal employment is a different story. But I know plenty of kids now still do have to do chores, ie work, to get their weekly pocket money or whatever you want to call it.

Ah, FFS are you equating 'work' with chores around the house now for some pocket money.
It was clear given the terms of the debate and the subject matter we are talking about legal paid work for a company or organisation, not doing the wash-up and getting a euro for it or some cash under the table thing for doing someone lawn.

Put it simply, would it be legal for a hotel to pay (with payslips!) a 5 year old to wash dishes?

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

I understand completely the entire idea of needing experience but we're talking entry level jobs here, that require training for nine months. If I told you that I wouldn't let you make me coffee without nine months of training, what would you think of me?

Are we talking some pre mix tar of sloop or actual good coffee. Being a Barista is an actual decent-ish job here in Sydney, there are even paid courses one can do on the subject.
http://www.baristabasics.com.au/?Coffee-Courses;Info;1674

conorh91

Have to start out by saying I don't see a major ethical problem with jobbridge, if it's conducted properly.

But through my work I am aware of companies who have used their jobbridge quota, and go on to establish subsidiary companies, just so they can hire more "interns".

The process follows thus: INTERN 1 joins company named "REAL" on an internship. After the expiry of the internship scheme for this company, one legitimate employee of "REAL" is dispatched to the subsidiary "REAL LOL" as a manager of INTERN 2, a new intern who is technically working for a new company, even though everyone is sitting in the same office doing the same work.

You might think that's a lot of paper work. And it is. But it can save approximately 20k per annum per intern. It is well-worth filling in the forms.

Although I am not actually opposed to jobbridge, it is quite annoying to see firms like the above described as 'compliant'.

I'm all for job opportunities for the unemployed, and even unpaid internships. But we have to be fair about it. Practices like the above take the piss.

Xenji

Smidge wrote: »

Christ on a bike, I've done half of the jobs on that list in my time and was remunerated for it.
Sickening exploitation.

I love they add fancy names for the internships, Telesales Administrator is just a poor fella in a call centre, we had a Clerical Storage Administrator, all he did was filing.

Still waiting to see the Fuel Injection Technician.

Tombi!

jank wrote: »

Ah, FFS are you equating 'work' with chores around the house now for some pocket money.
It was clear given the terms of the debate and the subject matter we are talking about legal paid work for a company or organisation, not doing the wash-up and getting a euro for it or some cash under the table thing for doing someone lawn.

Put it simply, would it be legal for a hotel to pay (with payslips!) a 5 year old to wash dishes?



Are we talking some pre mix tar of sloop or actual good coffee. Being a Barista is an actual decent-ish job here in Sydney, there are even paid courses one can do on the subject.
http://www.baristabasics.com.au/?Coffee-Courses;Info;1674

I pointed out that even the most menial of tasks that deserve money, don't need a full fledged nine months of training.
There was a coffee shop internship. Here it is: Here
So four of them. Yes, yes, I know "not all recent" and all that. Fine. But the point stands as it is. It's a f**king insult, to anyone, even a sixteen year old, to be told "you working here for 39 hours a week deserves only 50 euro". And yes, I am indeed counting the 50 euro as their wage; since someone of the right age could get the the 188 (maximum mount IIRC) without working.

dxhound2005

Xenji wrote: »

Dairy Herd Assistant
House Assistant
Sales Assistant
Sales Assistant
Retail Sales Assistant
Jewellery Studio - Marketing Assistant
Receptionist /Sales Assistant
GP Sales Representative (North East Leinster)
GP Sales Representative (South East Leinster)
GP Sales Representative (South West)
Print Shop Assistant
Sales & Marketing Executive
Sales & Marketing Executive
Activities Co-Ordinator
External Sales Executive
Telesales Administrator
Marketing & Business Development Manager ( It is a car dealership )
Gym & Fitness Instructor

None of the above should be allowed.

On what basis do you exclude this:

The intern will gain practical experience in milking and handling dairy cows, general farm maintenance and care of cattle. The intern will receive formal/informal training in the following use of a computerised system of modern milking parlour 32units, herd management. On completion the intern will have attained skills in all aspects of dairying to include management, knowledge gained in breeding, and knowledge of health and care of cattle.


But apparently allow this:

The intern will gain practical experience in MySql Database management, PHP scripting and automation through cronjobs The intern will receive formal/informal training in the following MySQL, PHP, CSS, Project management, LAMP web design They will also be involved in a web scraping project. On completion the intern will have attained skills in MySQL, PHP, CSS, LAMP, Python, XML and Project management

Tombi!

dx, from the looks of it, he's basing it on the idea of someone with no clue at all. I'd also point out that on the second one, from what I've read and been told by people familliar in those languages, it can take a month or more per language to get the basics down.
Granted I have no idea for how complicated it is to work with cattle but I can say with confidence the second one would take some months.

Xenji

dxhound2005 wrote: »

On what basis do you exclude this:

The intern will gain practical experience in milking and handling dairy cows, general farm maintenance and care of cattle. The intern will receive formal/informal training in the following use of a computerised system of modern milking parlour 32units, herd management. On completion the intern will have attained skills in all aspects of dairying to include management, knowledge gained in breeding, and knowledge of health and care of cattle.


But apparently allow this:

The intern will gain practical experience in MySql Database management, PHP scripting and automation through cronjobs The intern will receive formal/informal training in the following MySQL, PHP, CSS, Project management, LAMP web design They will also be involved in a web scraping project. On completion the intern will have attained skills in MySQL, PHP, CSS, LAMP, Python, XML and Project management

As far as I know, no 3rd level course covers dairy farming ( open to correction) I do not think that you would learn the ins and outs of cattle farming in 9 months.

On the other hand with the latter internship you can have studied in 3rd level database management and various forms of coding, and 9 months practical experience in the workplace will really stand to you with the relevant degree to back it up and look well on your CV.

For me the second example is something that I have no issue with, it is what the scheme should be all about, the first example unless the intern comes from a farming background is not really what should be being offered ( open to correction again if you can study this)

dxhound2005

Xenji wrote: »

As far as I know, no 3rd level course covers dairy farming ( open to correction) I do not think that you would learn the ins and outs of cattle farming in 9 months.

On the other hand with the latter internship you can have studied in 3rd level database management and various forms of coding, and 9 months practical experience in the workplace will really stand to you with the relevant degree to back it up and look well on your CV.

For me the second example is something that I have no issue with, it is what the scheme should be all about, the first example unless the intern comes from a farming background is not really what should be being offered ( open to correction again if you can study this)

Someone in the Edenderry area who is on the dole and has an interest in farming could want to do that internship. They would not be able to do the computer one in Dundalk. No harm in putting the two of them up there.

The last couple of posts just prove that it would need armies of staff versed in hundreds of industries to weed out the dud ads. All I am saying is if the scheme exists and it is limited to 8,500 people in the whole country let them put up the ads and people on the dole can ignore them if they want.

Tombi!

It's only for people on the dole, though.
So people on the dole are to ignore things that are for them?

I would agree the dairy farmer might suit someone that is interested in it or is in the area but again, I'd argue that it might not need nine months. I have feck all clue about farming. But it could go either way, really. We'd need someone in here expeirenced to tell us if it's worth nine months or not.

Tony EH

DrGreenthumb wrote: »

Sounds like your sister is a door mat,

do people not have a spine anymore, cant leave for lunch she should say watch me, its a job you can walk out of anytime you want tell them to get ****éd, is she worried she'll lose her massive wage or opportunity to one day own the company,

i implore everyone in a jobsbridge job they hate to just do the job as badly as you possibly can,

His sister is, no doubt, worried about losing her JA, if some wanker writes a bad report about her to the Social Welfare Dept. because she decided to take a lunch break out of her free labour.

THAT is what keeps these poor souls in line.

No doubt that appeals to the more despicable among us.

Patty O Furniture

Xenji wrote: »

I love they add fancy names for the internships, Telesales Administrator is just a poor fella in a call centre, we had a Clerical Storage Administrator, all he did was filing.

Still waiting to see the Fuel Injection Technician.

Dental Technician springs to mind, although so did the patient in the chair, when you hear that 'whirring noise'
when all you're told to do is
'Press here' 'Suction here'

cork guitar player

So, like, to cut to brass tacks....

Is Jobsbridge the government simply paying private companies tax payers money to 'hire' unemployed people to make it seem like they are doing something about unemployment?

To me that seems like bad governance. Some would say its cynical exploitation of the desperate.

Or maybe its just a scam to massage figures and get re-elected on a load of hot air. Tossers.

Probably the whole lot. Christ this country needs some moral governance asap.

darkpagandeath

cork guitar player wrote: »

So, like, to cut to brass tacks....

Is Jobsbridge the government simply paying private companies tax payers money to 'hire' unemployed people to make it seem like they are doing something about unemployment?

To me that seems like bad governance. Some would say its cynical.

Or maybe its just a scam to massage figures and get re-elected on a load of hot air. Tossers.

Aye the government/councils were at it big time in the moratorium.