The Jobbridge Scandal

osarusan · 12-07-2015 10:04pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Those who have a current market value of 18k will still command a market value of 18k. If a company tries to cut their wages they have the option to move elsewhere.

Those who have a market value above or equal to 18k are unaffected by moving the price floor lower than 18k.

Lets put it another way.

Currently, the minimum wage in Ireland for an experienced adult worker is 8.65 an hour.

In the event of the reduction or abolition of the minimum wage, do you expect companies to continue to hire at 8.65 an hour?

According to your argument, if a company currentlys pay 8.65, then the work must be worth 8.65, so you see no reason to expect them to cut the wages they offer. Is that right?

Even so, if the company tried to cut a current employee's wages, they could just leave for another company - who would still be offering 8.65 an hour?

scamalert · 12-07-2015 10:34pm

IwasFrozen seems to have diluted view,as above poster said,whats to stop companies from dropping wages-claim hard times,recession,slow turnover etc ?
Maybe currently employed ,most would get to keep the minimum,but there would be nothing stopping everyone deciding say 14k is the new minimum and so on.

Thus it would not only cause more damage since you would have even more opportunists trying to hire for F all,but causing people to even consider not looking for any sort of such jobs,since one would be working same hours for nothing-just to cover pure basics,while rent bills taxes would be the same

Iwasfrozen · 12-07-2015 10:42pm

osarusan wrote: »

Lets put it another way.

Currently, the minimum wage in Ireland for an experienced adult worker is 8.65 an hour.

In the event of the reduction or abolition of the minimum wage, do you expect companies to continue to hire at 8.65 an hour?

According to your argument, if a company currentlys pay 8.65, then the work must be worth 8.65, so you see no reason to expect them to cut the wages they offer. Is that right?

Even so, if the company tried to cut a current employee's wages, they could just leave for another company - who would still be offering 8.65 an hour?

Well let's look at this another way.

Say a person is earning 12 euro an hour. That person will be unaffected by a drop in minimum wage.

When a person is working a minimum wage job we know their market value is at least 8.65 euro an hour since if it was less they would never have been hired for the job at 8.65 euro an hour in the first place.

So when a person is working a job at 8.65 euro an there's no reason to believe their company will attempt to lower their wage below their market value if the minimum wage is lowered. If the company did try to lower their wage another company will offer the person a job at their market value. This is just basic supply and demand.

osarusan · 12-07-2015 10:47pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

So when a person earning 8.65 an hour there's no reason to believe their company will attempt to lower their wage if the minimum wage is lowered.

That's for current employees.

I'm asking about wages for new employees - do you think they'll continue to offer 8.65 even though they could offer less?

Iwasfrozen · 12-07-2015 10:56pm

osarusan wrote: »

That's for current employees.

I'm asking about wages for new employees - do you think they'll continue to offer 8.65 even though they could offer less?

Sometimes, sometimes not it would depend on the industry and the company.

If they do start lowering the wage however it will give opportunities to those whose market value is less than 8.65 euro an hour. Give them experience, references, training and opportunities to improve their market value instead of languishing on long term unemployment or jobbridge.

osarusan · 12-07-2015 11:20pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Sometimes, sometimes not it would depend on the industry and the company.

So, would it be fair to say that a job currently worth 18k (as in, being advertised at current minimum wage) could well be worth less than 18k (as advertised) after the reduction or abolition of the minimum wage (a reduction by 1 euro an hour wold be a drop of just over 2,000 euros)?

civis_liberalis · 12-07-2015 11:48pm

I really don't know what to make of some of the points made in the last few pages.

Tony EH · 15-07-2015 1:15pm

That's Libertarianism for ya!

Pure fantasy.

_Tombstone_ · 15-07-2015 1:40pm

civis_liberalis wrote: »

I really don't know what to make of some of the points made in the last few pages.

Then you're obviously not worth €18000, more like €12000.

CobraClan · 17-08-2015 5:11pm

Im doing a gateway scheme and I am more worse of now than ever! I get 208 a week but I am paying 9.60 PRSI out of that plus it costs me 28 euro a week on bus fare so at the end of the week I'm lucky to bring home 170 euro, that's nearly 18 euro cut from the 188 euro I was getting before I was working plus the job is a joke, there 16 other people there from gateway and they don't known what to do with all of us, most days we stand around with nothing to do! This scheme has no benefit for me what so ever and I'm finding it difficult and costly!

17-08-2015 5:13pm

CobraClan wrote: »

Im doing a gateway scheme and I am more worse of now than ever! I get 208 a week but I am paying 9.60 PRSI out of that plus it costs me 28 euro a week on bus fare so at the end of the week I'm lucky to bring home 170 euro, that's nearly 18 euro cut from the 188 euro I was getting before I was working plus the job is a joke, there 16 other people there from gateway and they don't known what to do with all of us, most days we stand around with nothing to do! This scheme has no benefit for me what so ever and I'm finding it difficult and costly!

I wonder if you went back to DSP and showed them the evidence, would they be able to put you on one nearer to you?

CobraClan · 17-08-2015 5:22pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I wonder if you went back to DSP and showed them the evidence, would they be able to put you on one nearer to you?

I working for Dublin city council and I ask the supervisor if he could transfer me somewhere else but he said I'd have to wait six months, standing around doing nothing is killing me, there putting all these people into places but don't actually have work for people to do! Beyond a joke

17-08-2015 5:33pm

CobraClan wrote: »

I working for Dublin city council and I ask the supervisor if he could transfer me somewhere else but he said I'd have to wait six months, standing around doing nothing is killing me, there putting all these people into places but don't actually have work for people to do! Beyond a joke

Go to the Department of Social Protection rather than your supervisor. They're not all ogres!

snubbleste · 18-08-2015 6:09pm

Govt to carry out an external review of Jobbridge
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0818/722108-jobbridge-external-review/

an overall assessment of the effects of the scheme on host organisations
hiring practices
displacement
job creation
any perceived differential treatment for JobBridge interns versus existing employees
a counterfactual impact evaluation and an assessment of the monitoring regime

darkpagandeath · 18-08-2015 6:10pm

snubbleste wrote: »

Govt to carry out an external review of Jobbridge
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0818/722108-jobbridge-external-review/

Seen that, And before elections. Almost like they hope it gets a poor result and gives them a reason to bin it and take credit.

18-08-2015 6:12pm

snubbleste wrote: »

Govt to carry out an external review of Jobbridge
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0818/722108-jobbridge-external-review/

It needs doing. What started off as a good idea was and is being abused.

civis_liberalis · 18-08-2015 6:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It needs doing. What started off as a good idea was and is being abused.

It was never a good idea because it was always going to be abused. This is Ireland.

darkpagandeath · 18-08-2015 6:34pm

civis_liberalis wrote: »

It was never a good idea because it was always going to be abused. This is Ireland.

Especially with all the MNC foreign supermarkets.. Government departments councils list goes on.

The Dogs Bollix · 18-08-2015 7:06pm

I am fully qualified. Did work experience as part of my course.

Was always told I needed more experience. I couldn't even get a jobbridge! Sure how could I, when they have their pick of people? There's people out of work with experience!!!

Eventually, found an internship. I won't say found... I fired off an email asking would they be interested in taking on someone under the scheme. They were looking for interns... But glorified cleaners... Fancy name but as cleaners. I took it, thinking it would be foot in the door. Or maybe they might let me do more stuff. Nope.

The glorified cleaner is someone that helps out in the job... They work below everyone else helping them. I'm qualified. I've done all this as a student. In fact, I done way more as a student. To see students learning where I am. And I'm a qualified cleaner. Makes you feel so worthless. How is someone meant to have confidence to job hunt? I'm not getting experience cleaning.

It's soul destroying.

18-08-2015 7:13pm

The Dogs Bollix wrote: »

I am fully qualified. Did work experience as part of my course.

Was always told I needed more experience. I couldn't even get a jobbridge! Sure how could I, when they have their pick of people? There's people out of work with experience!!!

Eventually, found an internship. I won't say found... I fired off an email asking would they be interested in taking on someone under the scheme. They were looking for interns... But glorified cleaners... Fancy name but as cleaners. I took it, thinking it would be foot in the door. Or maybe they might let me do more stuff. Nope.

The glorified cleaner is someone that helps out in the job... They work below everyone else helping them. I'm qualified. I've done all this as a student. In fact, I done way more as a student. To see students learning where I am. And I'm a qualified cleaner. Makes you feel so worthless. How is someone meant to have confidence to job hunt? I'm not getting experience cleaning.

It's soul destroying.

If you're not getting the agreed experience, then report them and leave.

The Dogs Bollix · 18-08-2015 7:23pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you're not getting the agreed experience, then report them and leave.

Thing is, I am. The agreed experience was a glorified cleaner.

But stupid me thought it would be my foot in the door or I would get to do more things/experience. But I'm not getting experience cleaning.

Don't know what to do. As it was part of my personal progression plan too with those meetings they call you for. If I leave, will it be seen as not agreeing with the personal progression plan and getting my dole cut.

Uncle Ben · 18-08-2015 8:15pm

The Dogs Bollix wrote: »

Thing is, I am. The agreed experience was a glorified cleaner.

But stupid me thought it would be my foot in the door or I would get to do more things/experience. But I'm not getting experience cleaning.

Don't know what to do. As it was part of my personal progression plan too with those meetings they call you for. If I leave, will it be seen as not agreeing with the personal progression plan and getting my dole cut.

You applied for a position as a glorified cleaner, your words, and you got said position and you're getting the experience. I'm half inclined to feel sorry for you and then again I'm thinking you're going to learn a valuable lesson from all of this which you will carry with you through out your life and this won't happen to you again.
Personally speaking I don't believe in Jobsbridge, I'm of the opinion that if people do a job they should be paid.
Don't sell yourself short again.

The Dogs Bollix · 18-08-2015 8:21pm

Uncle Ben wrote: »

You applied for a position as a glorified cleaner, your words, and you got said position and you're getting the experience. I'm half inclined to feel sorry for you and then again I'm thinking you're going to learn a valuable lesson from all of this which you will carry with you through out your life and this won't happen to you again.
Personally speaking I don't believe in Jobsbridge, I'm of the opinion that if people do a job they should be paid.
Don't sell yourself short again.

It was tough. I had social welfare on my back. Threatening me with my personal progression plan. I applied to other jobbridge but I didn't get them. At least I'm in a building I want to be in.

How do I dress this up in interviews as valuable experience?

Uncle Ben · 18-08-2015 8:35pm

The Dogs Bollix wrote: »

It was tough. I had social welfare on my back. Threatening me with my personal progression plan. I applied to other jobbridge but I didn't get them. At least I'm in a building I want to be in.

How do I dress this up in interviews as valuable experience?

I'd be saying I got general office skills. Talk to the girls at reception, on the desks,in accounts etc. Get a broad overview of how a business or service operates from the top down and bottom up. Don't sell your self short as glorified cleaner, but remember also that cleaning staff are also a necessity in almost every business also.

18MonthsaSlave · 18-08-2015 9:43pm

snubbleste wrote: »

Govt to carry out an external review of Jobbridge
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0818/722108-jobbridge-external-review/

This is a cynical method of kicking to touch until after election.
They have no intention of scrapping this scheme.
They don't need external reviews. I've provided Burton with dozens of examples of scheme exploitation already as have thousands of other people.
They are now communicating to tenderers that there is some money to be won if they can deliver an appropriately worded review which allows them to renew the scheme and bonus points if they can justify raiding the pension fund via pension levy another time around to get a slush fund which they can divvy up amongst connected friends and family.
There are teenage schoolkids in my high tech company(in my dept)here in Germany earning 16 euro an hour during the summer holidays that are getting more relevant work experience than is offered in 95% of the jobbridge placements offered under this scheme.

18-08-2015 9:51pm

The Dogs Bollix wrote: »

It was tough. I had social welfare on my back. Threatening me with my personal progression plan. I applied to other jobbridge but I didn't get them. At least I'm in a building I want to be in.

How do I dress this up in interviews as valuable experience?

It would be difficult to embellish the experience, but whatever you do, always sound enthusiastic and grateful for the opportunity at future interviews. You could say it wasn't entirely the experience you were hoping for, but you were glad of the opportunity and to be working... enthusiasm goes a long way in interview. Sounding disappointed really doesn't! It makes you appear eager and motivated, you know?

The Dogs Bollix · 18-08-2015 10:00pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It would be difficult to embellish the experience, but whatever you do, always sound enthusiastic and grateful for the opportunity at future interviews. You could say it wasn't entirely the experience you were hoping for, but you were glad of the opportunity and to be working... enthusiasm goes a long way in interview. Sounding disappointed really doesn't! It makes you appear eager and motivated, you know?

Thanks for this. I hadn't a clue to be honest.

bangthebodhran · 20-08-2015 11:51am

Now this takes the biscuit, a jobBridge post for a psychologist, WTF! Give the job to properly qualified people and shut down this government for gods sake. Can't post link because of my amount of posts as Bangthebodhran (My work Boards username). Someone link this Irish Times article about HSE defending this JobBridge post.

the evasion_kid · 20-08-2015 1:13pm

bangthebodhran wrote: »

Now this takes the biscuit, a jobBridge post for a psychologist, WTF! Give the job to properly qualified people and shut down this government for gods sake. Can't post link because of my amount of posts as Bangthebodhran (My work Boards username). Someone link this Irish Times article about HSE defending this JobBridge post.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/hse-defends-jobbridge-post-seeking-psychologist-1.2322824

The Dogs Bollix · 20-08-2015 5:39pm

What's next doctors and nurses on jobbridge.

A piece from the Irish times link above ... The internship would provide entry level clinical psychologists the chance to develop the relevant experience they need before moving onto a trainee job ???

What's the point of the jobbridge so?

Isn't the whole point of a trainee job is to get experience... as a trainee ?

Christ all mighty.

The Jobbridge Scandal

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