The Jobbridge Scandal

imitation

I think its a good idea, its sad its getting exploited, but I think it should be kept on at some level because as a scheme even if it just gets 50% of people into a career its a sucess in my books. It sucks for the other 50% for sure, but if it was not there how many people would get a start ?

Mother Brain

Tony EH wrote: »

Working life is becoming less and less about the employee (you know the people that actually do the work) and more about easing the situation for big business, who already have more than their fair share stacked in their favour as it is.

And this scenario will run across all job/career types. You think your "skills" will be of any benefit to you. Guess again. "Skilled" labour is becoming less and less important in the face of cheaper labour.

Exactly. I said earlier that training staff used to be considered something of an investment in an employee.

Some have told me "But why should business shoulder the risk of training an employee who will only leave a year or two down the line?".

Well guess what? The "job for life" went out the window not because a couple of generations of people just decided they don't want any job security anymore. It's because they were shown time and time again that their labour was considered expendable by mass employers who have no social conscience or investment in the community they operate in.

Daith

imitation wrote: »

but if it was not there how many people would get a start ?

The same as what happened before? You started off as a trainee and got paid for it and if you were any good you got kept on after 6 months?

Buford T Justice

It depends really. If its an internship for a skilled position and you can't get a job in the industry without experience, then it has its merits. You can get real world experience in the area you want to work in. It can give you a boost on your cv when looking for jobs.
On an employers side, its also beneficial too from that aspect. If you take someone on in a skilled job as an intern and they are really good, you can hire them. If they're a lemon then you don't have to hire them without having to go through all the hr dismissal nonsense.

That said, this happening is really few and far between. Most employers use it as a free labor revolving door scheme which is deplorable. If you as the intern stand to gain as much as the employer does, then I'd agree with it. Other than that no, because there are far too many internships out there where supermarkets are looking for shelf packers and dressing them up as something else so they can draft people in. Who seriously need real world shelf packing experience in this life?

I agree with the idea of the internship for skilled jobs, but the implementation is scandalous

These internships are a joke

The intern will gain practical experience in the business of retailing products to the public on a day to day basis, covering all aspects of day to day operations in running a small business retail outlet. The intern will receive formal/informal training in the following: Public relations and communication with the general public. Product training both theory and practicle. Practical computing skills covering the microsoft family of products. Day to day requirements in running a small retail store. On completion the intern will have attained skills in the running of a small business allowing them set up a small retailing business.

The intern will gain practical experience in assisting with various day to day HGV yard duties. The intern will receive formal/informal training in the following checking & controlling stock levels. On completion the intern will have attained skills in various aspects of the daily management of a busy transport operation

The intern will gain practical experience in interpreting written instructions to successfully assemble and check products, gain experience in the diagnoses of products that are returned faulty. The intern will receive formal/informal training in the following: assembly of indoor and outdoor toys and nursery furniture and any other shop related products and training in the diagnoses of faulty products. On completion the intern will have attained skills in the assembly of products and diagnosis of faulty products.

Tony EH

Mother Brain wrote: »

Exactly. I said earlier that training staff used to be considered something of an investment in an employee.

Some have told me "But why should business shoulder the risk of training an employee who will only leave a year or two down the line?".

Well guess what? The "job for life" went out the window not because a couple of generations of people just decided they don't want any job security anymore. It's because they were shown time and time again that their labour was considered expendable by mass employers who have no social conscience or investment in the community they operate in.

I'd wager that the vast, vast majority of employees would be extremely happy to have job security and it certainly wasn't them that wished it away.

The situation we're heading for at present is a "doing away" of everything that was fought for and achieved a few decades ago, to a point where all work will be of a temporary nature, designed to suit employers, who can hire and fire at will.

Profit is the only thing that business understands now and any way that's achieved is to be praised, rather than scrutinised. Into the bargain, a lot of companies are flip companies. Start up, make some competition, then flip it to a larger competitor for a few million. We'll not the likes of an Apple or Microsoft again in my lifetime, because that type of dedication to a business growth is a dead philosophy. It's, by and large, down to a quick buck these days, built on the backs of a disposable work force, where everything is considered cheap and expendable.

humanji

MOD: Threads merged.

Tony EH

Tony EH wrote: »

It's simply another feather in the cap of the ongoing effort to devalue people's labour.

People better get used to this scenario, because the way things are going, it'll be the norm in working life where we reach the point that employees will be expected to fund their own first 6 months or year when they go for a new job.

Working life is becoming less and less about the employee (you know the people that actually do the work) and more about easing the situation for big business, who already have more than their fair share stacked in their favour as it is.

And this scenario will run across all job/career types. You think your "skills" will be of any benefit to you. Guess again. "Skilled" labour is becoming less and less important in the face of cheaper labour.

Poppycock. Many people, myself included, have benefited from JobBridge. Having to change direction drastically after being made redundant, I accepted an internship, as I had absolutely no experience in my new chosen field. I was kept on and am now mentoring another intern. It's all about gaining experience.
Having said that, lots of the Internships offered are really taking the proverbial.
Employers are not in business for charity. They are in it to make money.

Tony EH

Deleted User wrote: »

Poppycock. Many people, myself included, have benefited from JobBridge. Having to change direction drastically after being made redundant, I accepted an internship, as I had absolutely no experience in my new chosen field. I was kept on and am now mentoring another intern. It's all about gaining experience.
Having said that, lots of the Internships offered are really taking the proverbial.
Employers are not in business for charity. They are in it to make money.

Bollocks.

osarusan

Deleted User wrote: »

Having said that, lots of the Internships offered are really taking the proverbial.

I think that is what is the issue for the vast majority of posters who have problems with the scheme.

bluewolf wrote: »

Even basic stuff like working a till, if you have zero experience in the area (maybe you never caught a break, maybe you are trying to re-train) and nobody will give you a job because why would they risk you vs someone who's done it before, you can at least prove you showed up to work on time for 6 months, were reliable, have some more skills than you did, and go look for a job with that.
l

9 months is just taking the piss though for some of those jobs. Pre-jobbridge, I wonder when Tesco or similar hired somebody and trained them in, how long did that training take? Less than a week I'd say. Now, they should get some reward for the bit of training they have done, and the intern could use some experience, but 9 months?

No way they should be allowed to say that training will last for 9 months.

jimgoose

It's true for an oul' fella who once said back in the day, "Mad O'Duffy will have the working man atin' grass off the ditch!" :pac:

Mother Brain

Deleted User wrote: »

Poppycock. Many people, myself included, have benefited from JobBridge. Having to change direction drastically after being made redundant, I accepted an internship, as I had absolutely no experience in my new chosen field. I was kept on and am now mentoring another intern. It's all about gaining experience.
Having said that, lots of the Internships offered are really taking the proverbial.
Employers are not in business for charity. They are in it to make money.

Employers are still stakeholders in a wider social context. They don't exist in a vaccum where anything they do can be written off because "money".

Also this "It's all about experience" is rubbish as well seeing as this has only become the case for a huge portion of industry since the recession. Pre 2008 there was fluidity in the jobs market. It was assumed in most industries (or at least most white collar jobs) that you would be able to do a job, or at very least possessed the capacity to do a job, before you had done it.

Sunflower 27

Mother Brain wrote: »

Employers are still stakeholders in a wider social context. They don't exist in a vaccum where anything they do can be written off because "money".

Also this "It's all about experience" is rubbish as well seeing as this has only become the case for a huge portion of industry since the recession. Pre 2008 there was fluidity in the jobs market. It was assumed in most industries (or at least most white collar jobs) that you would be able to do a job, or at very least possessed the capacity to do a job, before you had done it.

Exactly, it us about profit, selfish profit for the owners of businesses like the one I mentioned a few pages back. Free workforce and I bet they are rubbing their greedy little mits with glee. I boycott the places in my area that use job bridge.

imitation

Daith wrote: »

The same as what happened before? You started off as a trainee and got paid for it and if you were any good you got kept on after 6 months?

Did this actually happen though at anytime outside the boom period ?

Im talking now about something any member of the public can sign up for like jobbridge.

The truth of it is that making a position from scratch in a company is rare, and is often snatched up by some relative within the company. On the otherhand theres a good chunk of job bridge openings that lets somebody new get some experience and if they perform its a lot easier to justify keeping them on.

Sure it sucks, but its a lot more attractive to managers than opening a new position, getting a guy whos good at interviews and having to write off his wages after 3 months when he doesnt cut it. Its obviously not going to happen during the recession, so at least this way people have a shot at getting 6 months experience.

Its a shame its exploited, but I cant see a way to make it open and accessible without making it possible for all companies to access it.

Daith

imitation wrote: »

Did this actually happen though at anytime outside the boom period ?

Er, yes? How do you think people got into the work force before JobBridge?

imitation wrote: »

Im talking now about something any member of the public can sign up for like jobbridge.

No, not any member of the public can sign up. You need to be claiming job seeker allowance for a start. Not to mention those requiring a degree or more.

imitation wrote: »

The truth of it is that making a position from scratch in a company is rare, and is often snatched up by some relative within the company. On the otherhand theres a good chunk of job bridge openings that lets somebody new get some experience and if they perform its a lot easier to justify keeping them on.

That used to be called a "probation period". It was normally less than the 9 months too. JobBridge simply shifted it to benefit employers so they wouldn't have to pay.

I think as with most schemes more regulation around JobBridge is needed. There may be companies that are great with their internships but most do seem to be taking the piss.

civis_liberalis

Cleaners, sandwich artists and deli assistants are among the "internships" on offer in my county at the moment. Yay.

PopePalpatine

I wonder when we're going to see a libertarian visit this thread to condescend to any posters who believe in the concept of a fair day's wage for a fair day's work.

Tony EH

They've been and gone.

Iwasfrozen

Seans_Username wrote: »

I'm not on job bridge but I'm doing an internship where I get 50 quid a week on top of my dole.

It's so disheartening every day thinking all I'm getting is fifty ****ing euro for this shíte. My rent is fairly expensive so it makes me feel even worse that mum & dad are going to have to give me money so I can make ends meet.

Only recently I was told that I could put the title 'Marketing Assistant' down on my CV, instead of Intern, with the explanation: "because that's what you're doing, really".... I come home and I'm wrecked most days. At least when I wasn't working I had time and energy to get plenty of exercise.

It's an absolute scam. I'd honestly rather do an online course or something than give some employer the satisfaction of successfully carrying out that slave labour bullshít

In fairness you shouldn't need to be told that.

Don't think of it as getting 50 euro a week, you're getting 238 because the government will not pay you 180 indefinitely, so that 180 euro is not free money. Even if you're not earning big bucks you're better off being in the workplace than sitting at home!

Tony EH

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

In fairness you shouldn't need to be told that.

Don't think of it as getting 50 euro a week, you're getting 238 because the government will not pay you 180 indefinitely, so that 180 euro is not free money. Even if you're not earning big bucks you're better off being in the workplace than sitting at home!

/\

As if by magic!

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I wonder when we're going to see a libertarian visit this thread to condescend to any posters who believe in the concept of a fair day's wage for a fair day's work.

Iwasfrozen

Tony EH wrote: »

/\

As if by magic!

At least Sean is trying to improve his situation (even if he's having a good moan about it) better than sitting on the sidelines and making snide comments.

Tony EH

Sean shouldn't have to "improve" himself by being slave labour.

Brian from Bray

What's peoples opinions on Tus ? Is it like scambridge ?

fryup

TUS seems to be replacing the whole CE scheme,

PopePalpatine

Tony EH wrote: »

Sean shouldn't have to "improve" himself by being slave labour.

B-b-but it's the will of the Free Market!

Seans_Username

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

In fairness you shouldn't need to be told that.

Don't think of it as getting 50 euro a week, you're getting 238 because the government will not pay you 180 indefinitely, so that 180 euro is not free money. Even if you're not earning big bucks you're better off being in the workplace than sitting at home!

I only get €100 from social welfare, so it's only €150 a week. I know what you're saying about working is better than nothing, and that's true.

But right now I'm in a pretty tight situation where I need the money and I'd rather do a job I hate for good money right now, than a job I hate for the sake of experience

Brian from Bray

Brian from Bray wrote: »

What's peoples opinions on Tus ? Is it like scambridge ?

I've seen a few people on TUS, who would be considered Lifelong dolers. They seem to be doing jobs that the county councils used do years ago. Sweeping streets, cutting grass, etc. Like CE schemes, there is nothing on offer at the end of it.

Xenji

Brian from Bray wrote: »

What's peoples opinions on Tus ? Is it like scambridge ?

Tus is far worse for anyone to be on, mainly menial labour jobs that you will learn nothing from.

When I did a CE Scheme, everyone there was doing a job that benefitted the community as a whole, which made the 19.5 hours for an extra 20 euro perfectly tolerable, in fact, I was only delighted to do it. It looked better than a blank space on the CV, gave me something to do, and with only a few hours a day it didn't feel anything like slavery.

Open to correction, but I don't believe Tus is the same, as it isn't "community employment", roles Fas was paying us to fill to benefit the general community?

Mother Brain

Tony EH wrote: »

Sean shouldn't have to "improve" himself by being slave labour.

I don't know how applicable it is either, lord knows not all of our "rights" are respected in everyday life anyway, but in the universal declaration of human rights article 23 it states:

Article 23.

(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
(2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.

So there's that too.. Especially in light of being told that you're basically doing the job anyway.

the_syco

Tony EH wrote: »

Sean shouldn't have to "improve" himself by being slave labour.

Correct. He should improve himself by going to college.

No. Seriously :pac: