The Jobbridge Scandal

fin12

Tasden wrote: »

Or maybe they required proof that he had gained employment before they could close his file?

But if hes signed off and not receiving a payment, that's proof enough.

Tasden

fin12 wrote: »

But if hes signed off and not receiving a payment, that's proof enough.

Doesn't prove he has a job. Proves he's not in reciept of jobseekers payment. Which as i said, would be enough to satisfy dsp but may not be for jobpath who are only contracted to dsp and may need additional info in order to close their file.

rgossip30

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

Off Topic, But when is the BTEA office open ?

Drag it out with remarks . The woman in charge is overwhelmed with applications and only available 1 time each week .

The Raptor

Tasden wrote: »

Doesn't prove he has a job. Proves he's not in reciept of jobseekers payment. Which as i said, would be enough to satisfy dsp but may not be for jobpath who are only contracted to dsp and may need additional info in order to close their file.

Once he gets work/claim closed. He should have nothing more to do with them. He doesn't need proof for the dsp, that's enough.

Bit of cop on

The Raptor wrote: »

Once he gets work/claim closed. He should have nothing more to do with them. He doesn't need proof for the dsp, that's enough.

Yes but he was sent by DSP to JobPath and therefore needs to provide evidence to the contractors he is on file with.

The DSP case officers, as has already been mentioned, don't care if you found work or fell of the face of the Earth so long as you're not claiming. The contractors have a mandate to ensure people get into full-time paid employment. Not only that, they do not get paid until the person stays in full-time employment for 13 weeks, 26 weeks and so on. This means they don't operate on a 'any job for any person' or force people into unreasonable positions as everything revolves around sustainable job outcomes for them to get paid. Hence the aforementioned training, upskilling and one-to-one support ethos. They ask you your first day what 3 types of jobs you are interested in and once they are realistic and in-line with your experience, skills and qualifications, then that is what they look for with you.

Lastly, people finding work on their own is encouraged every step of the way. Most people today find work through word of mouth. Somewhere in the region of 20% of jobs only are actual advertised meaning up to 80% of jobs in Ireland right now are not. This is why they try to encourage networking through training.

They are operating almost a year now and in the grand scheme of things, with an excess of 40,000 referrals to date (Politics.ie), there are doing what should have been done a long long time ago. Safegaurds has also been put in place to ensure the wrongs that occurred in England and other countries does not happen here, us Irish would not stand for it!

SCOOP 64

Your first post ,do you work for them ?

Tasden

The Raptor wrote: »

Once he gets work/claim closed. He should have nothing more to do with them. He doesn't need proof for the dsp, that's enough.

If you read my posts you'll see where I said twice that dsp and jobpath operate differently and one may require more proof than the other. Dsp only care about the payment side of things. Jobpath will have stats etc and may not want to list someone as employed purely based on them having signed off the live register. People can sign off for multiple reasons, the dsp don't care why. An employment support agency will care about the employment side of things.

Can't see why he'd have to have anything to do with JobPath if he signed off. Still a democracy last time I looked. Once you're not receiving a payment the folks at JobPath can fcuk off.

Tasden

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Can't see why he'd have to have anything to do with JobPath if he signed off. Still a democracy last time I looked. Once you're not receiving a payment the folks at JobPath can fcuk off.

To let the person know they can stop contacting you and just close your file. Both people are happy and the person no longer needs to feel "harassed". I personally don't see the big deal at all.

Clampdown

livedadream wrote: »

why wouldn't they be? if you can do voluntary work you can do paid work...

so why not get paid for it and come off welfare?

from my experience people on welfare doing voluntary work frequently have worked out they are better off financially on the dole.

Oh yeah, why not just get paid for it? Gee, what a brainwave! How'd you come up with it? Next time Oxfam have an ad for a volunteer I must apply for it and then say, 'Oh forgot to mention, I'd actually prefer to be paid for my time.' I'm sure they'd say it's no problem.

Ha, the amount of dole bashers I have seen advising people who can't get work to do volunteer work to bolster their CV and then you come out with this! You can't have it both ways lads.

'Your experience' in this area is from where, might I ask? Because what I have found is that most people who do voluntary work are doing it because they genuinely want to be working but there isn't paid work available for them. But now you even want to paint voluntary workers as spongers! That's some master level dole bashing there, well done.

Arcade_Tryer

Clampdown wrote: »

Oh yeah, why not just get paid for it? Gee, what a brainwave! How'd you come up with it? Next time Oxfam have an ad for a volunteer I must apply for it and then say, 'Oh forgot to mention, I'd actually prefer to be paid for my time.' I'm sure they'd say it's no problem.

Ha, the amount of dole bashers I have seen advising people who can't get work to do volunteer work to bolster their CV and then you come out with this! You can't have it both ways lads.

'Your experience' in this area is from where, might I ask? Because what I have found is that most people who do voluntary work are doing it because they genuinely want to be working but there isn't paid work available for them. But now you even want to paint voluntary workers as spongers! That's some master level dole bashing there, well done.

You're right. When someone on the dole is doing nothing, they're advised to contribute in some way by perhaps volunteering, and when they are on the dole and seemingly contributing loads and volunteering, they are told they should be working and are well able for work. You're dealing with people with strong agendas and narrow minds concerning the welfare system unfortunately.

Everyone with a job is an expert on those on welfare and what they should be doing at any given time.

Bit of cop on

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Your first post ,do you work for them ?

Does that void my entire post? And no but I work in research and do a lot of research on active labour market policies and this initiative is of particular interest to me.

The Raptor

Tasden wrote: »

If you read my posts you'll see where I said twice that dsp and jobpath operate differently and one may require more proof than the other. Dsp only care about the payment side of things. Jobpath will have stats etc and may not want to list someone as employed purely based on them having signed off the live register. People can sign off for multiple reasons, the dsp don't care why. An employment support agency will care about the employment side of things.

DSP sends people to jobpath. Once you're done claiming jobseekers, you sign off with the DSP, you should be done with them at that stage and have nothing more to do with them. Your contract has ended with DSP and therefore jobpath.

The guy above was harrassed because they wanted a letter so they can take the credit for it. Do you not see anything wrong with that. They didn't help him get work. Why have weeks and weeks of harassment when your contract has ended. They shouldn't be looking for proof. It's not their job to get proof.

hufpc8w3adnk65

Question lads.. If your on a job bridge program can you get off it before the 3 years is up but still get social welfare?

Tasden

The Raptor wrote: »

DSP sends people to jobpath. Once you're done claiming jobseekers, you sign off with the DSP, you should be done with them at that stage and have nothing more to do with them. Your contract has ended with DSP and therefore jobpath.

The guy above was harrassed because they wanted a letter so they can take the credit for it. Do you not see anything wrong with that. They didn't help him get work. Why have weeks and weeks of harassment when your contract has ended. They shouldn't be looking for proof. It's not their job to get proof.

I'm aware of that, thank you.
I'm saying, once again, that dsp don't care about the finer details once you are off their books, jobpath may want to know about your employment status before claiming it to be gainful employment and skewing figures/statistics. I really don't see the problem with that.

wiz569

MrMac84 wrote: »

Question lads.. If your on a job bridge program can you get off it before the 3 years is up but still get social welfare?

Jobbridge only runs for either 6 or 9 months m8

The Raptor

Tasden wrote: »

I'm aware of that, thank you.
I'm saying, once again, that dsp don't care about the finer details once you are off their books, jobpath may want to know about your employment status before claiming it to be gainful employment and skewing figures/statistics. I really don't see the problem with that.

Simple. Tell them you got a job. What more proof do they need.

Bit of cop on

The Raptor wrote: »

DSP sends people to jobpath. Once you're done claiming jobseekers, you sign off with the DSP, you should be done with them at that stage and have nothing more to do with them. Your contract has ended with DSP and therefore jobpath.

The guy above was harrassed because they wanted a letter so they can take the credit for it. Do you not see anything wrong with that. They didn't help him get work. Why have weeks and weeks of harassment when your contract has ended. They shouldn't be looking for proof. It's not their job to get proof.

Exactly, DSP sent them to the contractor and they need to claim it as by the contract with DSP getting full-time jobs is what pays their wages.

The ironic thing is he is being 'hounded' for the employment details but if he gave them he has an 'op out' clause to not receive any further contact for the duration of his JobPath term (One Year).

If he did give details they close down his appointment & training requirements and he goes into 'In Work Support', a free service to those who start employment - essentially a call every few weeks to see if you are happy with employment, hours/pay is good and if they can help you with anything. He can say at any point he does not want to be contacted and that is the end of that.

The other side of this is, because he played hard-ball and wants to prove a point by not telling them, if or when he goes back into unemployment he will be sent straight back and you can be sure they would remember his attitude.

Bit of cop on

The Raptor wrote: »

DSP sends people to jobpath. Once you're done claiming jobseekers, you sign off with the DSP, you should be done with them at that stage and have nothing more to do with them. Your contract has ended with DSP and therefore jobpath.

The guy above was harrassed because they wanted a letter so they can take the credit for it. Do you not see anything wrong with that. They didn't help him get work. Why have weeks and weeks of harassment when your contract has ended. They shouldn't be looking for proof. It's not their job to get proof.

Actually, DSP sent them to the contractor and they need to claim it as by the contract with DSP getting full-time jobs is what pays their wages.

The ironic thing is he is being 'hounded' for the employment details but if he gave them he has an 'op out' clause to not receive any further contact for the duration of his JobPath term (One Year).

If he did give details they close down his appointment & training requirements and he goes into 'In Work Support', a free service to those who start employment - essentially a call every few weeks to see if you are happy with employment, hours/pay is good and if they can help you with anything. He can say at any point he does not want to be contacted and that is the end of that.

The other side of this is, because he played hard-ball and wants to prove a point by not telling them, if or when he goes back into unemployment he will be sent straight back and you can be sure they would remember his attitude.

The Raptor

It's difficult enough relying on jobseekers and having them on your back with all sort of schemes.

But you still don't hear the end of it once you do sign off. Every few weeks I get a letter, like a gentle reminder to say they own me.

The Raptor

Bit of cop on wrote: »

Exactly, DSP sent them to the contractor and they need to claim it as by the contract with DSP getting full-time jobs is what pays their wages.

He didn't get work through them. Why should they be paid for it?

fin12

if you are not getting a cent from the dole anymore you do not have to engage with any of these schemes, end of, the reason why ur engaging with them in the first place is because you are receiving a payment, if that ends you are under no obligation to communicate with any of these schemes so basically they can Fock off.

Tasden

The Raptor wrote: »

It's difficult enough relying on jobseekers and having them on your back with all sort of schemes.

But you still don't hear the end of it once you do sign off. Every few weeks I get a letter, like a gentle reminder to say they own me.

But that's just your feelings on it, they are not personally sending you a letter with the intent to piss you off because you dared sign on once upon a time. The person is doing their job just like you do yours.

Bit of cop on

The Raptor wrote: »

He didn't get work through them. Why should they be paid for it?

One reason and one reason only. Prior to his job he was in receipt of a Jobseekers payment and classed a long-term (a year or more) unemployment. The day he was referred to Jobpath he was still in receipt of his payment and by his contract, the one he signed every month or so with DSP for his payment, he was then a customer with JobPath who have policies and procedures to follow too.

fin12

Anyone here trying to defend job path more than likely hasn't been on any of these schemes or haven't been long term unemployed.

Bit of cop on

fin12 wrote: »

if you are not getting a cent from the dole anymore you do not have to engage with any of these schemes, end of, the reason why ur engaging with them in the first place is because you are receiving a payment, if that ends you are under no obligation to communicate with any of these schemes so basically they can Fock off.

And there it is right there that sense of entitlement. You do know he was long-term claiming a weekly payment right? Tell them to F off! They have insured his welfare through unemployment for possible years, some people decades, and now that real supports are put in place to get people into actual jobs they are the worst thing on the planet? This is the kind of attitude that really annoys me.

The Raptor

Bit of cop on wrote: »

One reason and one reason only. Prior to his job he was in receipt of a Jobseekers payment and classed a long-term (a year or more) unemployment. The day he was referred to Jobpath he was still in receipt of his payment and by his contract, the one he signed every month or so with DSP for his payment, he was then a customer with JobPath who have policies and procedures to follow too.

That's ok once you're signed on.

Now, what about when you're finished? You shouldn't have to engage with them anymore.

The Raptor

Bit of cop on wrote: »

And there it is right there that sense of entitlement. You do know he was long-term claiming a weekly payment right? Tell them to F off! They have insured his welfare through unemployment for possible years, some people decades, and now that real supports are put in place to get people into actual jobs they are the worst thing on the planet? This is the kind of attitude that really annoys me.

Eh, are we talking about a guy who got a job?

Bit of cop on

fin12 wrote: »

Anyone here trying to defend job path more than likely hasn't been on any of these schemes or haven't been long term unemployed.

I lost my business during the crash and had to endure a long period of torture with unemployment. I used the BTEA to get re-skilled and educated and did a jobbridge placement that was actually worthwhile and filled the gap on my cv and got me, eventually, into a job. All I know is DSP aren't fit for purpose to get people into work. Job-seekers payment is supposed to be a stop gap and not a life sentence and only now with private companies involved is there some hope for long-term unemployed people.

Bit of cop on

The Raptor wrote: »

That's ok once you're signed on.

Now, what about when you're finished? You shouldn't have to engage with them anymore.

Then don't. Let them know you got a job and opt out of any further contact.