The Jobbridge Scandal

fin12

Bit of cop on wrote: »

And there it is right there that sense of entitlement. You do know he was long-term claiming a weekly payment right? Tell them to F off! They have insured his welfare through unemployment for possible years, some people decades, and now that real supports are put in place to get people into actual jobs they are the worst thing on the planet? This is the kind of attitude that really annoys me.

If it was about entitlement well then the person wouldn't go away and get a job and come off the dole would they. And are you saying I've a sense of entitlement even though I'm working full time?

Attack the post not the poster.

Tasden

fin12 wrote: »

Anyone here trying to defend job path more than likely hasn't been on any of these schemes or haven't been long term unemployed.

Nope. Been there done that. And was "activated" while actually working part time and claiming casual. Was called for regular meetings while studying part time through distance learning and working part time. Tried to get on a CE scheme myself while fully unemployed but wasn't old enough at the time.

The Raptor

Bit of cop on wrote: »

Then don't. Let them know you got a job and opt out of any further contact.

And that's what we've been saying all day.

Xenji

Bit of cop on wrote: »

Exactly, DSP sent them to the contractor and they need to claim it as by the contract with DSP getting full-time jobs is what pays their wages.

The ironic thing is he is being 'hounded' for the employment details but if he gave them he has an 'op out' clause to not receive any further contact for the duration of his JobPath term (One Year).

If he did give details they close down his appointment & training requirements and he goes into 'In Work Support', a free service to those who start employment - essentially a call every few weeks to see if you are happy with employment, hours/pay is good and if they can help you with anything. He can say at any point he does not want to be contacted and that is the end of that.

The other side of this is, because he played hard-ball and wants to prove a point by not telling them, if or when he goes back into unemployment he will be sent straight back and you can be sure they would remember his attitude.

Actually he would not be, you have to be fully unemployed for over a year to be sent to JobPath, if he happens to be made unemployed he would be back on JSB and then would have to be on JSA for a year to be eligible for the scheme again.

Then don't. Let them know you got a job and opt out of any further contact.

The person in question did tell them they had found work and signed off, but then the calls started coming in about telling them where it was he had found it, he signed off with the DSP and told them about this and they said he did not have to tell them.

Bit of cop on

fin12 wrote: »

If it was about entitlement well then the person wouldn't go away and get a job and come off the dole would they. And are you saying I've a sense of entitlement even though I'm working full time?

He got a job so should say f*** the lot of them. Thats a sad state of thinking. He was sent to JobPath for a reason and the policies in place meant he needed to tell the contractor who he sourced employment with. By not doing that they would rightly so look for it to the extent of hounding him. As someone mentioned they are doing their job too. To say f the lot of them is turning his back on all the welfare benefits he received through his unemployment term which is at the very least a year to be referred to jobpath, thats almost €12,000 and if he had rent supplement or any other payment more. Thats a sense of entitlement right there. What about the next recession and if he needs it again, tell them f*** off then too I suppose?

Bit of cop on

Xenji wrote: »

Actually he would not be, you have to be fully unemployed for over a year to be sent to JobPath, if he happens to be made unemployed he would be back on JSB and then would have to be on JSA for a year to be eligible for the scheme again.

Apologies thats correct. But if he becomes unemployed during the first year since his referral then he goes straight back as he will remain on JobPath for the full year even though he is working.

Tasden

Xenji wrote: »

Actually he would not be, you have to be fully unemployed for over a year to be sent to JobPath, if he happens to be made unemployed he would be back on JSB and then would have to be on JSA for a year to be eligible for the scheme again.

Depends how long he had been signed off for i think. If its within a certain period i think he can still be sent back. May be wrong though.

Depending on where he is, he could be sent straight to the Local Employment Service through pathways to work programme though.

fin12

Bit of cop on wrote: »

He got a job so should say f*** the lot of them. Thats a sad state of thinking. He was sent to JobPath for a reason and the policies in place meant he needed to tell the contractor who he sourced employment with. By not doing that they would rightly so look for it to the extent of hounding him. As someone mentioned they are doing their job too. To say f the lot of them is turning his back on all the welfare benefits he received through his unemployment term which is at the very least a year to be referred to jobpath, thats almost €12,000 and if he had rent supplement or any other payment more. Thats a sense of entitlement right there. What about the next recession and if he needs it again, tell them f*** off then too I suppose?

I actually haven't a clue what you are on about. You do exactly what is required of you when you are receiving a payment if you are not receiving a payment anymore why should you. And when did I say f the lot of them, I was specifically referring to Jobpath.

Bit of cop on

Xenji wrote: »

The person in question did tell them they had found work and signed off, but then the calls started coming in about telling them where it was he had found it, he signed off with the DSP and told them about this and they said he did not have to tell them.

Yes they cannot claim it until they can verify the employers details, as soon as they know the company he goes into In work Support and an opt out of contact can be used. Thats DSP contract and what they need for payment so really DSPs doing, for them to say dont tell them is rather odd!

Tasden

fin12 wrote: »

You do exactly what is required of you when you are receiving a payment if you are not receiving a payment anymore why should you.

So they can close your file accordingly and not "harass" you.

Bit of cop on

fin12 wrote: »

I actually haven't a clue what you are on about. You do exactly what is required of you when you are receiving a payment if you are not receiving a payment anymore why should you. And when did I say f the lot of them, I was specifically referring to Jobpath.

We are kind of going around in circles alright! I don't get how this new method does not make sense to people. We are in a tread about JobBridge the worst managed activation measure of recent memory and now that an initiative is set for actual real jobs everyone is complaining? He should have told them the employer details and they would have stopped calling him. He let it get to a harassment stage by not telling them.

Clampdown

Bit of cop on wrote: »

We are kind of going around in circles alright! I don't get how this new method does not make sense to people. We are in a tread about JobBridge the worst managed activation measure of recent memory and now that an initiative is set for actual real jobs everyone is complaining? He should have told them the employer details and they would have stopped calling him. He let it get to a harassment stage by not telling them.

What part of 'he didn't get the job through Jobpath' do you not understand? They want the details so they can claim they got him employment and take commission, stop pretending you don't know this and there won't be any more circles!

Bit of cop on

Clampdown wrote: »

What part of 'he didn't get the job through Jobpath' do you not understand? They want the details so they can claim they got him employment and take commission, stop pretending you don't know this and there won't be any more circles!

None, I understood it completely.

Hopefully this is clear enough for you:

1) The jobPath contractor are doing their job.
2) It means noting to him to inform them of the employers details.

3) Say he was referred to the JobPath contractor yesterday by DSP. He started a job today (that he sourced) and didn't tell the contractor the employment details. For the next year he is still on the JobPath system, yes even if he signed off completely. If he loses his job (and this is the point I think you are missing) during this year he is sent back to the contractor to pick up where he left off. The contractor now has the right to contact the DSP, Revenue and YES the employer to find out his recent employment history and claim it because he is claiming jobseeker's benefit. These are terms and conditions of that payment. He is also subject to the contractors demands in terms of level of engagement with appointments and training. The service they offer is solely aimed at long-term sustainable outcomes, hence the on-going support even after employment if obtained.

Bit of cop on

Clampdown wrote: »

What part of 'he didn't get the job through Jobpath' do you not understand? They want the details so they can claim they got him employment and take commission, stop pretending you don't know this and there won't be any more circles!

None, I understood it completely.

Hopefully this is clear enough for you:

1) The jobPath contractor are doing their job.
2) It means noting to him to inform them of the employers details.

3) And the key point: Say he was referred to the JobPath contractor yesterday by DSP. He started a job today (that he sourced) and didn't tell the contractor the employment details. For the next year he is still on the JobPath system, yes even if he signed off completely. If he loses his job (and this is the point I think you are missing) during this year he is sent back to the contractor to pick up where he left off. The contractor now has the right to contact the DSP, Revenue and YES the employer to find out his recent employment history and claim it because he is claiming jobseeker's benefit. These are terms and conditions of that payment. He is also subject to the contractors demands in terms of level of engagement with appointments and training. The service they offer is solely aimed at long-term sustainable outcomes, hence the on-going support even after employment if obtained.

Xenji

Bit of cop on wrote: »

None, I understood it completely.

Hopefully this is clear enough for you:

1) The jobPath contractor are doing their job.
2) It means noting to him to inform them of the employers details.

3) And the key point: Say he was referred to the JobPath contractor yesterday by DSP. He started a job today (that he sourced) and didn't tell the contractor the employment details. For the next year he is still on the JobPath system, yes even if he signed off completely. If he loses his job (and this is the point I think you are missing) during this year he is sent back to the contractor to pick up where he left off. The contractor now has the right to contact the DSP, Revenue and YES the employer to find out his recent employment history and claim it because he is claiming jobseeker's benefit. These are terms and conditions of that payment. He is also subject to the contractors demands in terms of level of engagement with appointments and training. The service they offer is solely aimed at long-term sustainable outcomes, hence the on-going support even after employment if obtained.

He is not claiming anything, he is completely signed off from the DSP, his payments were stopped as soon as he informed the the DSP he commenced employment, plus as the Jobpath supplier never found him the job, he is not on JobsPlus nor was their any mention of ongoing support, they have nothing to do with his employment.

If you are on JSB with the DSP and went in and told them you had employment, they would never demand a letter from your new employer.

Bit of cop on

Xenji wrote: »

He is not claiming anything, he is completely signed off from the DSP, his payments were stopped as soon as he informed the the DSP he commenced employment, plus as the Jobpath supplier never found him the job, he is not on JobsPlus nor was their any mention of ongoing support, they have nothing to do with his employment.

If you are on JSB with the DSP and went in and told them you had employment, they would never demand a letter from your new employer.

Ok please re-read what I said. JobPath referrals are on a year referral. None of this matters if you continue in employment for a year and don't need JSB again but who knows what lies ahead.

Xenji

Bit of cop on wrote: »

Ok please re-read what I said. JobPath referrals are on a year referral. None of this matters if you continue in employment for a year and don't need JSB again but who knows what lies ahead.

You are not really making much sense in places and are making a lot of contradictory inaccurate statements, you just said that the person is still in receipt of JSB which he is not as he would have to be on stamps, which he could not possible be on as he has been unemployed for a year.

Capt Picard

Xenji wrote: »

You are not really making much sense in places and are making a lot of contradictory inaccurate statements, you just said that the person is still in receipt of JSB which he is not as he would have to be on stamps, which he could not possible be on as he has been unemployed for a year.

I think what he/she is saying is that when the Contractors referrals are marked as in employment they are tracked for the year. If this person loses work they go back to them as long as the year from referral is still in progress.

Capt Picard

Makes sense if they get sustainment payments too. They need to track how long a person is in fulltime employment to get paid

Thoie

If I've started a new full time job, and am no longer claiming any welfare benefits, the only people legally entitled to know the details of my new employer are the Revenue. There is no other agency entitled to know this information, certainly not 3rd party contractors. It is sufficient for everyone else to just know that you have a job and are no longer in need of assistance.

The comments about "entitlement" are ridiculous - most people have paid their Pay Related Social Insurance which is, as the name implies, an insurance policy against times you can't work. In my own case, I've paid enough in PRSI over the years to cover about 7 years of JSB payments.

Regardless of what some external company's policies or procedures are, once I've started a new job and signed off social welfare, I'm not their customer any more, and their internal policies don't give them the right to demand anything from me. They can certainly ask, but if I refuse and ask not to be contacted again, that should be it. If I stop shopping in Tescos, they don't phone me every week to find out where I bought bread today.

Bit of cop on

Thoie wrote: »

If I've started a new full time job, and am no longer claiming any welfare benefits, the only people legally entitled to know the details of my new employer are the Revenue. There is no other agency entitled to know this information, certainly not 3rd party contractors. It is sufficient for everyone else to just know that you have a job and are no longer in need of assistance.

The comments about "entitlement" are ridiculous - most people have paid their Pay Related Social Insurance which is, as the name implies, an insurance policy against times you can't work. In my own case, I've paid enough in PRSI over the years to cover about 7 years of JSB payments.

Regardless of what some external company's policies or procedures are, once I've started a new job and signed off social welfare, I'm not their customer any more, and their internal policies don't give them the right to demand anything from me. They can certainly ask, but if I refuse and ask not to be contacted again, that should be it. If I stop shopping in Tescos, they don't phone me every week to find out where I bought bread today.

"the only people legally entitled to know the details of my new employer are the Revenue"
On your first day of JobPath you sign a contract with the contractor that gives them permission to contact employers to verify your employment. If you don't sign this you are in breach of JSB terms and conditions. If you got work before starting with them then you didn't sign the contract and they can't look for or claim their fees from DSP. They will not call you to offer support throughout your first year of employment.

"most people have paid their Pay Related Social Insurance which is, as the name implies, an insurance policy against times you can't work. In my own case, I've paid enough in PRSI over the years to cover about 7 years of JSB payments"
But we are talking about long-term unemployed here and I can tell you most are not paying stamps. Many will be in receipt of social welfare payments for decades.

Again referrals have a year on JobPath where the contractor is required to provide a service to each person, that includes providing a service to those who find employment. They offer advice on welfare benefits like Family Income Supplement/Dividend, how to get your taxes sorted, childcare issues etc etc. This isnt Tesco this is social welfare. Lets say your full-time job was with Tesco and you earned a basic wage then you may need additional supports and advice to help you stay in employment. Thats a service all jobPath referrals are entitled to.

Any supports designed to help people stay off the dole and in employment should be applauded and welcomed. The thing most are missing here is this in not designed to 'harass' or trouble people but help them move into sustainable employment and away from welfare dependency as far too many are subject to.

fin12

Bit of cop on wrote: »

"the only people legally entitled to know the details of my new employer are the Revenue"
On your first day of JobPath you sign a contract with the contractor that gives them permission to contact employers to verify your employment. If you don't sign this you are in breach of JSB terms and conditions. If you got work before starting with them then you didn't sign the contract and they can't look for or claim their fees from DSP. They will not call you to offer support throughout your first year of employment.

"most people have paid their Pay Related Social Insurance which is, as the name implies, an insurance policy against times you can't work. In my own case, I've paid enough in PRSI over the years to cover about 7 years of JSB payments"
But we are talking about long-term unemployed here and I can tell you most are not paying stamps. Many will be in receipt of social welfare payments for decades.

Again referrals have a year on JobPath where the contractor is required to provide a service to each person, that includes providing a service to those who find employment. They offer advice on welfare benefits like Family Income Supplement/Dividend, how to get your taxes sorted, childcare issues etc etc. This isnt Tesco this is social welfare. Lets say your full-time job was with Tesco and you earned a basic wage then you may need additional supports and advice to help you stay in employment. Thats a service all jobPath referrals are entitled to.

Any supports designed to help people stay off the dole and in employment should be applauded and welcomed. The thing most are missing here is this in not designed to 'harass' or trouble people but help them move into sustainable employment and away from welfare dependency as far too many are subject to.

Have you been on Jobpath? Where are you getting all this information from regarding job path?

Tasden

fin12 wrote: »

Have you been on Jobpath? Where are you getting all this information from regarding job path?

The poster already explained that they had been doing research into employment engagement programmes.

The Raptor

Tasden wrote: »

The poster already explained that they had been doing research into employment engagement programmes.

He said he lost his business, got the BTEA and spent time on jobbridge and now has a job.

That's not research.

Tasden

The Raptor wrote: »

He said he lost his business, got the BTEA and spent time on jobbridge and now has a job.

That's not research.

His post earlier in the thread:

Bit of cop on wrote: »

Does that void my entire post? And no but I work in research and do a lot of research on active labour market policies and this initiative is of particular interest to me.

The Raptor

Tasden wrote: »

His post earlier in the thread:

He works in research.
Researches labour activation schemes.
He has an interest in this.

Where does it say he has researched jobpath specifically?

The Raptor

A bit of clarity is needed by the poster.

Tasden

The Raptor wrote: »

He works in research.
Researches labour activation schemes.
He has an interest in this.

Where does it say he has researched jobpath specifically?

Its of specific interest to him. He's hardly interested in it without any information on it. We're all capable of researching something on Google.

fin12

I say you would have to engage with Jobpath after employment if they got you the job, if you found the job on your own accord well then you shouldn't have to engage with them.

The Raptor

Tasden wrote: »

Its of specific interest to him. He's hardly interested in it without any information on it. We're all capable of researching something on Google.

What's of interest to him? Jobbridge? Jobpath?

He's been giving mixed messages in this thread.

There was talk of a guy being harrassed by jobpath after getting work. He was saying that you owe them to give them the employers details. But in a different post he says let them know you got a job and opt out of any further contact.

So what is it. Not a very good researcher.