The Jobbridge Scandal

PopePalpatine

Why can't we name and shame the companies exploiting Jobbridge like this? At least we'll know which businesses to avoid using.

mothnot

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Why can't we name and shame the companies exploiting Jobbridge like this? At least we'll know which businesses to avoid using.

Because they are all at it. Where my sister works there are more 'Jobbridge people' than employees. It would be easier to list the companies that are honest.!In our case a jobbridge position has
(1) Cut the hours and pay of existing staff
(2) We have now extended opening hours as jobbridge works the extra late hours
(3) staff that leave are not replaced....and the poor jobbridge person has to pay for long distance travel, work 5 days a week at no expense to employer, pay for any work outings and to booth they show them how much money is accumulated each day due partly to his efforts...
It is so sad........

Xenji

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Why can't we name and shame the companies exploiting Jobbridge like this? At least we'll know which businesses to avoid using.

People have put stuff up in this site http://www.scambridge.ie/, but I think only 23 companies have been banned from using Jobbridge out of the thousands of companies and businesses that have used it, the interns only get checked up on in the last month of their internship by FAS and that is just to get them to sign a form.

dxhound2005

mothnot wrote: »

Because they are all at it. Where my sister works there are more 'Jobbridge people' than employees. It would be easier to list the companies that are honest.!In our case a jobbridge position has
(1) Cut the hours and pay of existing staff
(2) We have now extended opening hours as jobbridge works the extra late hours
(3) staff that leave are not replaced....and the poor jobbridge person has to pay for long distance travel, work 5 days a week at no expense to employer, pay for any work outings and to booth they show them how much money is accumulated each day due partly to his efforts...
It is so sad........

I don't think it is possible to have more Jobbridge people than employees. Unless I am reading this part wrong?

How many Internships placements can I offer?
The total number of Internship places an organisation can offer at any one time is:
Number of Full Time
Employees*
Number of Internships
1-10 employees 1 internship place
11-20 employees 3 internship places
21-30 employees 4 internship places
30 + employees 20% of the workforce to a maximum of 200 internships
whichever is the smaller
* Who is employed for 30 hours or more per week (i.e. on payroll and subject to PAYE and
PRSI)


http://www.jobbridge.ie/toolkit/FAQOrgs.pdf

zenno

Deleted User wrote: »

An internship is like a job. If it isn't working out for you, you can leave. You can do 9 months JobBridge, but it doesn't have to be in the one placement. Has this person checked their entitlement if they did leave? Heresay isn't good enough. They need to speak to their local Welfare office and get the facts. NO ONE has to put up with this sort of behaviour. Speak up and if necessary, create a stink. Now don't come on here saying they'll lose x, y or z - unless you have the full facts that you can post here.

If the above in bold is aimed at me then I would forward you back to my previous post that has "question marks" associated with my comment. The question marks I have in-putted clearly show that I was asking for my question to be verified. I didn't just say that people Would lose their payments, I was asking for verification if this would be the case. How you could not see this simple comment marking "?" I'll never know.

Ace2007

Deleted User wrote: »

An internship is like a job. If it isn't working out for you, you can leave. You can do 9 months JobBridge, but it doesn't have to be in the one placement.

How would it look to a potential employer he they see that john has worked for 3 different companies over the last 9 months? I think they would be questioning why he left and wonder is this guy a good worker or just wants an easy life moving from job to job.

Grab All Association

Based in THURLES TOWN Ref. INTE-809081
Description
The intern will gain practical experience in: Tyre fitting to trucks & trailers, housekeeping, servicing, record keeping etc. The intern will receive formal/informal training in the following: Fitting and gauging truck & trailer tyres, bearings, record keeping. Health & safety procedures. The candidate will receive training from a fully qualified tyre fitter and will gain hands-on experience on a daily basis. On completion the intern will have attained skills in: Tyre fitting, housekeeping, basic axle and bearing skills, record-keeping, use of machinery and safety procedures using same.

Skills Requirements
Honest and hardworking and have the ability to work within a pressure environment.

Please Note:
This is an Internship. An allowance of €50 per week will be paid in addition to your current Social Welfare payment.See eligibility criteria above.

Department
garage/ maintenance dept

Pun intended?

TwoShedsJackson

jjbrien wrote: »

If they aint going to take her on after she should quit before xmas eve makes no diffrence either way but would serve the employer right..... Some of the clinets who like her might ask her to do their hair elsewhere and pay her for it so she might be better off.

Prime spot to quit the internship now, tell him to fu<k off.

TheDoc

Absolutely zero doubt job bridge is a joke, plenty of stories and **** coming from friends. I met a friend today for lunch working in an office across the way. She is working about two months in the place and was describing the stuff she does, it's such a sham.

At the same time, there needs to be accountability on both sides. WE LOVE pointing the finger and blaming everyone else.

I've never done an internship. I had a very simple principle, that I wasn't going to work for free, simple as. I'd gotten the "oh but you need experience" and all that talk, no way, not a chance I was going to be working for pennies.

Call it pigheaded, egotistical, I don't mind. I just wasn't going to do it. I'm working since I'm 14, I paid my way through five years of college, and for the last two years have worked daily with the biggest private banks and financial institutions in the world. And I didn't do ONE day of an internship.

I'm under the impression some careers simply require it, other's don't. But the caveat is that you go do an internship so you can write on your CV you have X experience, but on the other side of the table, and employer or interviewer, will typically completely disregard an internship, unless or really substantial quality. I've spoken to more then a few guys part of large MN's here in Ireland who deal with recruitment, who say that internships are one of the biggest cons going.

Now that's interships. The important distinction to be made here is that JobBridge isn't for someone to get 18 months working in a law firm, to learn the grounds of the business before they apply to be a fulltime employee. JobBridge is not for someone who goes into the ground floor of Google for 24 months and learns the companies coding ethics and standards, so when they apply for a developer job smoewhere they can say they are faimliar with x, y ,z

Job Bridge is very simply a case of getting people of the dole, and into the workplace, so to pad some stats, but at the same time boost local business. Let's not be stupid and nieve, we all know, this is just a step above slave labour. And the point is to allow Irish business either increase output for no additional costs, or reduce their current costs to make them more competitive.

Job Bridge isn't an internship programme, and it certainly isn't a skillup programme. It is most blatantly and obviously a method by which to reduce the social welfare count, and stimulate Irish business. I think it's really important to distinguish this and not degrade further the already degrading internships schemes.


In terms of some real world examples.

My girlfriend is operating on a privately funded "jobridge 2.0" type scheme. The purpose being getting people into fields they are interested in, and trained in them. So my girlfriend has taken a role in a pre-school. She is there a fair length now, is completing her level 6 degree, when done will allow her manage her own preschool if she so wishes, and has become the main reliant individual there. My girlfriend is back happy and well, coming from years of short eomployment or unemployment that took its toll on her. A brilliant scheme that has worked wonders, and giving her a REAL future, with a tangible degree to use.

My mate has accepted an internship with a law firm. Seemingly this is the norm, you have to take an internship and get some experience working low level stuff, before you can land the better job. So he has to spend 24 months operating as an intern for €200 odd euro a week. The long term is obviously he will gain the experience to land a proper job in law to then receive the big bucks. Two years on €200 a week tho? Not for me, but I'm sure he will be laughing.

And then my other mate, who is a pharmaceutical data analyst who recently returned from Canada after the company he was working for shut down. This guy analyses data sets from clinical trials, with ultimate precision. Has to be familiar with the chemicals and all that stuff aswell as the numbers, out of this world maths and obviously data analysis which is a tough enough job in itself. Struggling a little to find employment here he went to Job Bridge and his initial offers were :

Cleaning the bar for a local GAA club
Operating the bar in a Yacht club
Office receptionist
Warehouse packer

If someone has been longterm unemployed and has no education then you know what, yeah, I can see why these jobs might suit. But to have gone through six years of college, to have sat post-college exams along with requiring high scores in your leaving cert, to be offered a job cleaning a bar in a GAA club. Beggers belief.

And it's not being elitist or any of that nonense, I've done my fair share of menial jobs when I needed the cash and what not, but there is a real danger that if your offering highly skilled individuals meanial tasks and jobs that is in no way relevant to their field of level of expertise, you are simply degrading these people, and forcing them to look into emigration.

I don't understand fully why people do it at all, is there some sort of barbaric "Do this or we will cut your dole?" Cause I wouldn't put a ****ing foot near job bridge.

TheDoc

Ace2007 wrote: »

How would it look to a potential employer he they see that john has worked for 3 different companies over the last 9 months? I think they would be questioning why he left and wonder is this guy a good worker or just wants an easy life moving from job to job.

I'm sure an employer can put 1+1 together when they see someone highly skilled jumping around jobridge from helping in a cake shop to cleaning toilets in a bar to taking orders at a cafe.

And in fairness, I wouldn't put a jobridge thing NEAR my CV. Most of the negative and angry comments are from overskilled workers doing jobs in this scheme. Jesus why would you put it on your CV?

I worked in a bar for a short stint living in the Canary Islands. I was let go and replaced by a girl, as the manager simply outlined " Sorry mate tits get the lads in drinking".

I don't put that on my CV when I'm going into job interviews for my field : /

Tombi!

TheDoc, apparently people have been told do it or we cut your dole.
But far as I've seen and heard, they can't actually force you. It's just intimidation.

I think you might have to do a course with FÁS (or whatever the joke name is now) if you refuse to do a jobbridge scheme.

Xenji

@TheDoc, not gonna quote all that, was a long read but a very good read.

Xenji

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

TheDoc, apparently people have been told do it or we cut your dole.
But far as I've seen and heard, they can't actually force you. It's just intimidation.

I think you might have to do a course with FÁS (or whatever the joke name is now) if you refuse to do a jobbridge scheme.

It is called Solus now, I think you are given €500 to do a private course or do one of their crappy entry level courses like ECDL and Office.

mikeym

The scheme is clearly being abused by employers. The whole internship scheme is not relevent to cleaning or manual labour jobs.


Joan Burton and her Labour cronies are not going to be relected in the next general election.

Xenji

mikeym wrote: »

The scheme is clearly being abused by employers. The whole internship scheme is not relevent to cleaning or manual labour jobs.


Joan Burton and her Labour cronies are not going to be relected in the next general election.

There will not be a Labour party after the next election :pac:

ABajaninCork

Xenji wrote: »

There will not be a Labour party after the next election :pac:

They'll be like the Greens and the PD's. Voted out of existence.

I never ever thought I would say this. I've been a lifelong supporter and member of the Labour party at home in the UK. What I've seen from both Tony Blair and the Labour party here has turned my stomach.

They sit there and preach but you won't see them taking the hard blows like the rest of us. Do as I say, and not as I do. The hypocrisy shown is nauseating. I'm just waiting for them when they turn up on the doorstep in the local elections!!!

Party of the working classes my arse! More like put the boot on our necks until we expire...:mad:

BuilderPlumber

ABajaninCork wrote: »

They'll be like the Greens and the PD's. Voted out of existence.

I never ever thought I would say this. I've been a lifelong supporter and member of the Labour party at home in the UK. What I've seen from both Tony Blair and the Labour party here has turned my stomach.

They sit there and preach but you won't see them taking the hard blows like the rest of us. Do as I say, and not as I do. The hypocrisy shown is nauseating. I'm just waiting for them when they turn up on the doorstep in the local elections!!!

Party of the working classes my arse! More like put the boot on our necks until we expire...:mad:

I think both the Irish and UK Labour parties have sold themselves out completely. Tony Blair started out as an intelligent idealist who showed so much initial promise. Then, it went to his head and he started invading every country he could: Serbia, Afghanistan, Iraq. The Iraq war really defined Blair's ego and 'Blair the warmonger and Bush stooge' was a full 180 degrees from 'Tony the young idealist idealist'. Blair as well as the wars also embraced risky capitalism with gusto and the zeal of the convert. Socialism and being on the side of the worker went out the window (ironically, very similar to how his enemy Slobodan Milosevic similarly ditched his communist background to become a capitalist ultra nationalist).

As regards the Irish Labour party, we see the same apart from the wars. But Gilmore went from out and out communist (from the communist Worker's party) to being in an ultra capitalist market lead regime.

In a way, they had no choice as in the 1990s and up until 2007, risk taking capitalism and a credit based economy was what was sold and what was popular. So, in Ireland, Labour had to be just another version of Bertie's Fianna Fail and Fine Gael likewise had to follow suit. The ideals of all 3 parties were sold out the window of course in the process! Gilmore abandoned ship and went from the Workers Party and Democratic Left into Labour (Demo Left of course was just a bridge to move from hardline communism (WP) through moderate socialism (DL) to capitalism (Labour)). Labour had transformed into a near 100% capitalist party well before the 1990s of course. It was always happy to prop up capitalist FF or FG governments.

Now, all the sellouts to capitalism have come back to embarrass a lot of politicians. Should our old pal Gilmore end his support for the likes of JobBridge? Yes. It should be that schemes like JobBridge can only be used by employers if they follow it up with a position in their firm. The government should give tax breaks to companies but I guess they are too short-term orientated and greedy to do this. They are quite happy to see employers get cheap labour over and over.

TheDoc

Wow, no idea that it was being used as a "do this or we cut your dole".

This is one of the biggest crunch issues I have with this government, that they are using an archaic method of labour to pad their stats and to boost the irish economy. So again rather then have our national business' be creative or inventive, to use initiative in competing on the global markets, we provide them a way to increase output with no cost or reduce their current costs, which is not leading to reduced pricing. Irish business' typically cry victim constantly, without realising in this modern day, they are competing in the global economy, via the internet.

The droves of people who support irish business solely, is dropping, more and more people are moving to the global economy via the internet, and figures released recently indicate the "online market" in Ireland will triple in revenue and market share by the end of the decade. It's projected that within 20 years online methods of acquiring goods and services will have completely trumped that of traditional bricks n mortar, and to be honest I can see it happening sooner. Our business' need to get creative, inventive and competitive. And that is not done by employing short term cuts in cost to labour. What happens when job bridge ends? Business' are back operating at higher costs, and have no tangible process' or change in place that enable them to compete longterm.

I'll be interested to see some tangible figures come out of this scheme, and they should be more readily available. Newstalk had the topic for debate a while back, where someone in the studio proclaimed that there was less then 10% of jobridge candidates being provided with fulltime employment after their internships, with less then 2% of these being in what could quantify as "relevant career".

This should be more to the front, and a more frequent topic for debate against this government, which has deployed shoddy, short term face saving measures and tactics to try aid the economy but most importantly make themselves look the saviours and look top dog come next election.

This issue alone, even though not affecting me in anyway shape or form, is the main topic for which I will not support FG or Labour( not that I did last election). And I sincerely hope people will see through the bull**** come election time when they both shout from the rooftops on how they have reduced unemployment. They have created a short vacuum by which to pad stats, that will plummit back into high percentages, and in reality, further cripple local business when they have to operate again at normal costs, rather then the current artificial lower costs.

TheDoc

Xenji wrote: »

It is called Solus now, I think you are given €500 to do a private course or do one of their crappy entry level courses like ECDL and Office.

I had my ECDL leaving 3rd year in school, and part of our weekly curriculum was "computer class" which introduced us through the MS Office suite. And that was the early 00's

The certificates you can get for "IT" from FÁS or now Solas, arn't worth the paper they are printed on. There is alot of good schemes out there.

I went with a friends to a Digital Hub scheme a few years back, to advise her on if the skills would be beneficial. The course was for unemployed social welfare receivers looking to re-skill. The programme was basic, and it provided candidates with some abilities and tools to create e-commerce websites. Part of the scheme was working with a local irish company building an ecommerce website for them to trade online.

While the tools and skillset was not overly advanced (they used Wordpress as a CMS and E-commerce tool) it provided TANGIBLE skills that could actually be deployed. If your providing this service to a local business with no IT infrastructure, you don't need to have advanced skills, and to be fair using an easy accessible system is preferred.

She successfully implemented a good e-commerce solution for a retailer who also received tangible benefits from trading online. My friend is now working through more advanced web design and e-commerce courses, but all the while is freelancing building e-commerce solutions for small local irish business'.

That is a REAL and LONGTERM solution. It encourages business' to implement new tools and benefits, that can help them become more competitive, and trade on the global economy. It provides the individual with the skills and tools to do this for MORE business'. And like now, going onto further education, and she has essentially being reskilled ( she was previously a baker )

Now compare that to the data analyst in job bridge, being offered a cleaning and maintenance position in a local GAA club. Broken....

Fred Swanson

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Jagdtiger

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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I'd say its the cheapest and easiest course for them to run.

I applied to FAS for a course in Revit (in the same interview that I was told to leave the country) and the interviewer looked at me and said "no" and inquired as to why should want to do a course like that, I tried explaining that my college only started teaching Revit the year after I graduated and that it would be vital to know if I wanted to gain an edge and compete in the current Architecture/design market. "What about a career change, like IT?" She said. To which I replied "I just spent four years studying at a private college to get my BA degree". I nearly added "I'd sooner leave the country like you said" at the end of my reply to be cheeky, but decided against it and now that's one of my biggest regrets in life .

The company offering the course told me that I could do it through FAS if i was on the JSA. The sad part is, a month or so after that meeting I had to go back to FAS again to have my willingness to do courses assessed, I brought up the matter again and was told that I should have been allowed to do the course! But I still couldn't do it because they "changed the rules" the week before my second interview...

I've missed out on more than few job opportunities because Revit was a requirement.

In my first interview I was told I'd be better off leaving the country. The number if ridicolous beginner computer courses they tried to put me on was insulting. Part of my degree was in digital media and they insisted that I do an introduction to digital media course which was run by a friend if mine who had asked me to give him a hand as I was more skilled in it than he was.

Xenji

I have a friend who is finishing up his Jobbridge at the end of the month, poor fella is completely lost, will not be kept on in the job after being told he would be, does not want to do another 9 month Jobbridge, has no interest in doing any of the FAS courses and has a medical issue so cannot do much outside of office jobs.

He is hoping to immigrate and wants to spend his time trying find jobs abroad, not another Jobbridge or course, he wants to save as much of the dole as he can as he was losing money doing his current internship, but he was told by the social if he does this his money will be cut.

SCOOP 64

Xenji wrote: »

I have a friend who is finishing up his Jobbridge at the end of the month, poor fella is completely lost, will not be kept on in the job after being told he would be, does not want to do another 9 month Jobbridge, has no interest in doing any of the FAS courses and has a medical issue so cannot do much outside of office jobs.

He is hoping to immigrate and wants to spend his time trying find jobs abroad, not another Jobbridge or course, he wants to save as much of the dole as he can as he was losing money doing his current internship, but he was told by the social if he does this his money will be cut.

if he does what?, not go on another internship?

Fred Swanson

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TheDoc

Xenji wrote: »

I have a friend who is finishing up his Jobbridge at the end of the month, poor fella is completely lost, will not be kept on in the job after being told he would be, does not want to do another 9 month Jobbridge, has no interest in doing any of the FAS courses and has a medical issue so cannot do much outside of office jobs.

He is hoping to immigrate and wants to spend his time trying find jobs abroad, not another Jobbridge or course, he wants to save as much of the dole as he can as he was losing money doing his current internship, but he was told by the social if he does this his money will be cut.

I'd advise him to be strong and insist that he be provided something relevant in his field. People need to stop being led along and just nodding. To **** would I go ANYWHERE that wasn't related to my field, and tangible.

Sincerely, tell your friend to be mature and proffesional and simply decline menial ****e unless it's relevant to his career. Did a bit of reading around, having your dole cut is not an immediate process, that takes ALONG time to be actually put through, and its typically for people that don't show any willingless to co operate or attend interviews etc.

I'd tell your friend to communicate and discuss maturely with the relevant personal, and simply decline anything that is of no use, stating that he is only interested in x, y, z. Even better provide them with a specific job description. And be up front in telling them he would rather he spent his own time interviewing and resraching for positions, then wasting time being advised of jobs completely beneath his skillset.

I wouldnt budge an inch with any threats they make. I still get letters of correspondance for a traveller family that lived in the apartment I'm in before me, have gone completely AWOL. Went months without appearing for meetings or interviews before his dole was cut...by €10....looks in total it was nearly 3 years before his dole was actually cut substantially.

I'd be playing hardball if I was him. (Unless he doesn't have any skills or qualifications then I can see the blight)

cloudatlas

I used to be a Labour supporter but now my vote will be purely strategic. I don't want Sinn Fein to gain any more ground although I fear they've been gifted more seats by Labour.

Xenji

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

if he does what?, not go on another internship?

Yeah or not do any of the FAS training.

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yeah he said that to them, but they said he could look and do a internship/training at the same time. One of the biggest thing that irks me about the Social and FAS is that they seem to tell people different things, one will tell a person they cannot do something and then another will say they can, they do not seem to have a clue.

Xenji

TheDoc wrote: »

I'd advise him to be strong and insist that he be provided something relevant in his field. People need to stop being led along and just nodding. To **** would I go ANYWHERE that wasn't related to my field, and tangible.

Sincerely, tell your friend to be mature and proffesional and simply decline menial ****e unless it's relevant to his career. Did a bit of reading around, having your dole cut is not an immediate process, that takes ALONG time to be actually put through, and its typically for people that don't show any willingless to co operate or attend interviews etc.

I'd tell your friend to communicate and discuss maturely with the relevant personal, and simply decline anything that is of no use, stating that he is only interested in x, y, z. Even better provide them with a specific job description. And be up front in telling them he would rather he spent his own time interviewing and resraching for positions, then wasting time being advised of jobs completely beneath his skillset.

I wouldnt budge an inch with any threats they make. I still get letters of correspondance for a traveller family that lived in the apartment I'm in before me, have gone completely AWOL. Went months without appearing for meetings or interviews before his dole was cut...by €10....looks in total it was nearly 3 years before his dole was actually cut substantially.

I'd be playing hardball if I was him. (Unless he doesn't have any skills or qualifications then I can see the blight)

Oh I fully agree with you, we have talked about the same things and will tell him some of the points you have made as well, he does have qualifications, quite good ones, but the industry has basically bottomed out for him here.

Fred Swanson

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