The Jobbridge Scandal

SCOOP 64

That jobbridge i mention yesterday ,car valet (above), has now come up as a paid position,
odd?

http://jobseeker.fas.ie/Default.aspx?q=B+fomdowzS8kaDnSlUDk1zaMUPiFEeNrNWjviinu490thmC2C0u+DHJQRQD+Nd/aaeoHEQvb1thUlgkxhNMANHDosh0n20dkBlc/0wcEA0kV8rAOYlAsz65gn4C2/0GKpvB8QAIkI4LhbSe02IHNaFdsX153StFre7KZkRG55ODSrTJn5dqoyt4V7+tuCH/9rQnjz5z46rScX53HDHbqH0Vng9a15CNUQKx26WuRTg0ekQMJl/iB+p+At4iHE+LW2QdqpsfNkUS5tBAbup49a11+xf03n7RiYdYyzF/2aYT/+xreQbAjgyhe2KKTs5tkIIH4SYmQMcYpxqszC0LwVVHXUVgOy+2QzaG62yy8x0j1eAPRc06FcsVQfxRhzmFfAMYdoXqSsVBdxqY3YUGB0WiqFwrp2fQ+b8cJ1J7/S0FvDkVcP8MIOLS5yu66NLDHq9AdWz8gQ8IW2gbYW5uH5I0LhV5xzfFX

mariaalice

While every one gives out about jobs bridge, there are very few detailed though out replies saying exactly how it could be improved.

If it was renamed work experience would that make a difference, and if work experience consisted of job shadowing that would not work, because who would be have someone hanging around shadowing someone and what adult would be spend 9 months watching someone doing a job and not doing it themselves.

It is a difficult conundrum to crack the more restrictive you make it the less employers will take part. Human nature being what it is there are some employers that are taking advantage, but most are not.

It is a much bigger problem that jobs bridge alone.

Zillah

mariaalice wrote: »

While every one gives out about jobs bridge, there are very few detailed though out replies saying exactly how it could be improved.

Abolishing it entirely would be a huge improvement.

Failing that, strict policing where only positions where the intern will gain genuine training that they would not have access to otherwise are allowed. Ruthless crackdown on anything resembling service roles or manual labour being presented as an internship.

SeaFields

mariaalice wrote: »

Human nature being what it is there are some employers that are taking advantage, but most are not.

I think a read through this thread would beg to differ. Even yesterday alone with Advance pitstop attempting to complement their workforce by 15% through this scheme illustrates this.

Guy:Incognito

Fighting Irish wrote: »

how can anyone give out about the differfent companies using jobbridge? blame the government if you want

If the owner of a shop heads off to lunch and leaves it open with a jar on the counter for people to put money in for what the buy , is it ok to just steal stuff instead? Sure he left the shop open with no one to stop you.

Guy:Incognito

mariaalice wrote: »

What do you think would improve job bridge, I don't agree with job bridge as it is at the moment, however as I said in a different forum, how do suggest that someone with no experiences, a weak leaving cert or weak fetac results, from an area of high unemployment, no social capital ( also know as contact in the world of work ) get some sort of experience to get a job.

At the very least the company should have to pay the difference to bring the position up to minimum wage.
So 39 hour week x 8.65 = 337.35 - 188 = 149.35 . So the company should have to contribute the extra €150. Even then its not really fair on companies that don't use jobbridge. They are at an unfair advantage when a competitor is able to cut out on what is usually the biggest cost to an employer , wages.

runawaybishop

SeaFields wrote: »

I think a read through this thread would beg to differ. Even yesterday alone with Advance pitstop attempting to complement their workforce by 15% through this scheme illustrates this.

No, this thread is not representative.

mariaalice

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

At the very least the company should have to pay the difference to bring the position up to minimum wage.
So 39 hour week x 8.65 = 337.35 - 188 = 149.35 . So the company should have to contribute the extra €150. Even then its not really fair on companies that don't use jobbridge. They are at an unfair advantage when a competitor is able to cut out on what is usually the biggest cost to an employer , wages.

As soon as you do that the amount of employers taking part will drop like a stone.

mariaalice

Zillah wrote: »

Abolishing it entirely would be a huge improvement.

Failing that, strict policing where only positions where the intern will gain genuine training that they would not have access to otherwise are allowed. Ruthless crackdown on anything resembling service roles or manual labour being presented as an internship.

If you crack down on services role or manual labour roles, how is the weak candidate with no academic skills, or no work experience, and no contacts in the working environment going to get some experience.

Daith

mariaalice wrote: »

If you crack down on services role or manual labour roles, how is the weak candidate with no academic skills, or no work experience, and no contacts in the working environment going to get some experience.

The same way they did before Job Bridge only they'll be on minimum wage at least.

Guy:Incognito

mariaalice wrote: »

As soon as you do that the amount of employers taking part will drop like a stone.

Exactly.

Scortho

mariaalice wrote: »

If you crack down on services role or manual labour roles, how is the weak candidate with no academic skills, or no work experience, and no contacts in the working environment going to get some experience.

You shouldn't need experience to move boxes, make a sandwich or put biscuits on a shelf.
You might need experience to detail a car, but to valet a car then definitely not. Requiring a phd to be eligible for a internship on job bridge is crazy.
I'd go with guy incognitos suggestion of the company paying the difference to bring what are minimum wage jobs up to minimum wage rates.
The company is still getting cheaper labour for a period of time and the employee is getting a fair wage.
Graduate students are totally different to unemployed with no experience.

mariaalice

All my family are working in the Uk, husband children all of them, the thing is despite the drop in unemployment here it is difficult to get a job experience or contacts are everything, for example maybe there is just not sufficient employment out there for those with administrations skills for example, and while I don't agree with job bridge as it is, maybe the lack of enough work/jobs for everyone is the problem not job bridge.

Guy:Incognito

mariaalice wrote: »

All my family are working in the Uk, husband children all of them, the thing is despite the drop in unemployment here it is difficult to get a job experience or contacts are everything, for example maybe there is just not sufficient employment out there for those with administrations skills for example, and while I don't agree with job bridge as it is, maybe the lack of enough work/jobs for everyone is the problem not job bridge.

The answer to a shortage of jobs is not to give companies free employees. That results in even less jobs.

starlit

What is happening too is there might be jobs about but not enough suitable candidates to fill them less likely to create new jobs which is making unemployment impossible to combat and then the financial and investment aspect is critical in job creation. It wouldn't be just the case of shortage of jobs and then the majority of certain roles are filled. Its tougher for grads as only so few seem to get past the interview/jobbridge they end up having to reskill or emigrate.

SCOOP 64

mariaalice wrote: »

All my family are working in the Uk, husband children all of them, the thing is despite the drop in unemployment here it is difficult to get a job experience or contacts are everything, for example maybe there is just not sufficient employment out there for those with administrations skills for example, and while I don't agree with job bridge as it is, maybe the lack of enough work/jobs for everyone is the problem not job bridge.

Yes,but funny how some employers managed to find positions as soon as jobbridge came about.

Fighting Irish

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If the owner of a shop heads off to lunch and leaves it open with a jar on the counter for people to put money in for what the buy , is it ok to just steal stuff instead? Sure he left the shop open with no one to stop you.

ok lets blame the shop keepers

Tombi!

BTW, anyone who was "forced" to go on Jobbridge... don't worry. You can just make yourself as unappealing to hire as possible. I was told recently by a welfare officer that unlike the CE Schemes, Jobbridge isn't to do with them properly. It's like applying for a job. The company doesn't even need to contact you if they don't like your CV, for example.
It's the opposite with CE Schemes, they have to contact everyone who the social welfare tells them applies for the CE Scheme.

I find it interesting that on welfare.ie, this is the description for CE Schemes: Community Employment is an employment programme which helps long-term unemployed people to re-enter the active workforce by breaking their experience of unemployment through a return to work routine. The programme assists them to enhance and develop both their technical and personal skills which can then be used in the workplace.

And on the same site, for Jobbridge:
The aim of JobBridge is to assist in breaking the cycle where jobseekers are unable to get a job without experience, either as new entrants to the labour market after education or training or as unemployed people wishing to learn new skills. The initiative will give people a real opportunity to gain valuable experience to bridge the gap between study and the beginning of their working lives.

Except one is for 208 euro for 19.5 hours a week and the other is a maximum of 238 for 35 hours a week.
Both seem to fullfil the same roles except one is allowed to be taken advantage of by businesses.

Hermy

mariaalice wrote: »

While every one gives out about jobs bridge, there are very few detailed though out replies saying exactly how it could be improved.

If it was renamed work experience would that make a difference, and if work experience consisted of job shadowing that would not work, because who would be have someone hanging around shadowing someone and what adult would be spend 9 months watching someone doing a job and not doing it themselves.

It is a difficult conundrum to crack the more restrictive you make it the less employers will take part. Human nature being what it is there are some employers that are taking advantage, but most are not.

It is a much bigger problem that jobs bridge alone.

The major problem I see with JobBridge is the type of positions being advertised as internships.
An internship is supposed to provide someone with relevant experience in a professional career - a bit like an apprenticeship for white collar workers.
However, when the positions being advertised are in unskilled/ semi-skilled roles it makes a mockery of the whole thing.
You do not need to spend nine months training to be a warehouse assistant or a car wash attendant or a shop assistant. These are all positions that would previously have entailed on-the-job training.
When positions like these are allowed to be advertised as internships, as well as highlighting the ineffectiveness of JobBridge to function as it was intended, it also distorts the jobs market. Suddenly a lot a jobs that someone like myself would previously have applied for are no longer available because they are now considered internships.
I don't agree with internships myself but if the JobBridge scheme is to continue then it needs to be monitored properly and only roles above a certain grade should be considered suitable.
A position of general operative should never be advertised as an internship.
I do not need to spend nine months training to learn to use a mop!

tayto lover

mariaalice wrote: »

As soon as you do that the amount of employers taking part will drop like a stone.

Which would support the argument that they're only in it to save paying wages. Greed in other words.

runawaybishop

tayto lover wrote: »

Which would support the argument that they're only in it to save paying wages. Greed in other words.

Its a vicious circle. If company A can reduce costs due to using jobbridge then company B is at a disadvantage. Company B then starts using the scheme.

The scheme should lead into a fully paid job or its just unworkable.

Zillah

mariaalice wrote: »

If you crack down on services role or manual labour roles, how is the weak candidate with no academic skills, or no work experience, and no contacts in the working environment going to get some experience.

People with experience get jobs. People without experience get internships, then use their experience to get jobs. That is how it is supposed to work.

As it is now, people with experience are expected to get internships because many jobs have vanished and have been replaced with internship roles.

Service jobs and manual labour jobs should still exist as paid jobs and should not be allowed to function as internships.

Tombi!

Zillah wrote: »

People with experience get jobs. People without experience get internships, then use their experience to get jobs. That is how it is supposed to work.

As it is now, people with experience are expected to get internships because many jobs have vanished and have been replaced with internship roles.

Service jobs and manual labour jobs should still exist as paid jobs and should not be allowed to function as internships.

The funny part is that people can do jobs like that on the CE Schemes. And it's more "fair" since it's a total of 208 euro for 19.5 hours per week. And it's better regulated and monitored, apparently.

With Jobbridge, it's literally a job but without minimum wage. So you might go in for what you think is an office job and be told you're doing the lunch run daily.

runawaybishop

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

The funny part is that people can do jobs like that on the CE Schemes. And it's more "fair" since it's a total of 208 euro for 19.5 hours per week. And it's better regulated and monitored, apparently.

With Jobbridge, it's literally a job but without minimum wage. So you might go in for what you think is an office job and be told you're doing the lunch run daily.

People need to take some responsibility on themselves though and refuse requests that are not part of the internship.

aziz

I know of one girl who is working in a busy hair salon,her job when jobbridge
Started was to train the interns.Now she is being asked to cut her hours down
Because over half the staff are on jobridge.

Tombi!

runawaybishop wrote: »

People need to take some responsibility on themselves though and refuse requests that are not part of the internship.

Well, that's one of the issues on both ends (from the employer and from the welfare). I've heard stories of both threatening to have the person's jobseekers allowance cut if they "refuse" to do what they're told.

If it happened, I'm not sure, though. I do know that people have successfully gotten off of Jobbridge though with complaints of it not being anything like advertised/what they expected.

runawaybishop

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Well, that's one of the issues on both ends (from the employer and from the welfare). I've heard stories of both threatening to have the person's jobseekers allowance cut if they "refuse" to do what they're told.

If it happened, I'm not sure, though. I do know that people have successfully gotten off of Jobbridge though with complaints of it not being anything like advertised/what they expected.

The companies should be reported and removed from the scheme.

Cantona's Collars

runawaybishop wrote: »

People need to take some responsibility on themselves though and refuse requests that are not part of the internship.

But then they'll just be shown the door.All the employer has to say was that the intern was unsuitable for the role then get another poor sap to do it.

Tombi!

runawaybishop wrote: »

The companies should be reported and removed from the scheme.

I believe that it's due to a "he said/she said" kinda issue.
I was told that in CE Schemes the welfare is actively involved in it.
Whereas with Jobbridge, you're pretty much on your own.

So abuse of Jobbridge might be a bit hard to prove.

runawaybishop

zerks wrote: »

But then they'll just be shown the door.All the employer has to say was that the intern was unsuitable for the role then get another poor sap to do it.

Fired for not making tea? Sounds like you'd be well out of it so

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

I believe that it's due to a "he said/she said" kinda issue.
I was told that in CE Schemes the welfare is actively involved in it.
Whereas with Jobbridge, you're pretty much on your own.

So abuse of Jobbridge might be a bit hard to prove.

Is there anyone without access to a smartphone these days? You'd get proof pretty easily.