The Jobbridge Scandal

mikemac1

Ah we used to joke that pumping petrol makes you a fuel injection engineer

Never thought that such a job would turn into an internship!

Eight Ball

tayto lover wrote: »

What was the result of reporting them?
I bet nothing happened.

SFA pal. Spoke to him last night at training actually and he's at his wits end. They cant make it on 28hrs a week looks grim. He'll be signing on soon and will be looking at emigrating towards the summer time.

Grumpypants

Xenji wrote: »

They would only be silly if they stood to gain something from the internship, you could not call them silly if they turn down something like housekeeping, washing cars, photocopier assistant and the numerous other ridiculous internships we have seen posted here.

It's very easy to scoff at a car washing internship thinking what's to learn from washing cars? but I know two guys who did it, they learnt all about the correct equipment, chemicals and where to source them from, how to vallet properly, cash flow , customer interaction. Etc etc.

They took what they learnt and set up their own very successful business that is booming.

It's funny how often I have seen in this thread people knocking opportunities to get up and get some work place experience. Like the world owes them a living.

The best line is from graduates who complain that they can't get a job as employers want 2 years experience and when they look at jobsbridge all they see is internships offering that experience yet they can't figure it out in their heads to put the two together.

runawaybishop

Grumpypants wrote: »

It's very easy to scoff at a car washing internship thinking what's to learn from washing cars? but I know two guys who did it, they learnt all about the correct equipment, chemicals and where to source them from, how to vallet properly, cash flow , customer interaction. Etc etc.

They took what they learnt and set up their own very successful business that is booming.

It's funny how often I have seen in this thread people knocking opportunities to get up and get some work place experience. Like the world owes them a living.

The best line is from graduates who complain that they can't get a job as employers want 2 years experience and when they look at jobsbridge all they see is internships offering that experience yet they can't figure it out in their heads to put the two together.

No-one is scoffing at washing cars or saying there is nothing to learn from it. What we are saying is that it doesn't require an internship, it requires on the job training and a wage while you are doing it. Garages taking on people every 9 months to fill positions they have no intention of filling with a full time employee are taking the p1ss and should be called on it.

Soft Falling Rain

Grumpypants wrote: »

The best line is from graduates who complain that they can't get a job as employers want 2 years experience and when they look at jobsbridge all they see is internships offering that experience yet they can't figure it out in their heads to put the two together.

Generalisations ahoy.

I have seen how the recruitment process works on this scheme. While some businesses do not abuse it, the majority only care about the bottom line; getting in someone they can get the maximum from.

In an ideal world only graduates would be able to apply for these internships but this is not the reality. The reality is that people with years of paid experience are also applying for these internships and when it comes down to it, that person is going to get the internship while the novice is left on the scrapheap.

But carry on having your little digs without having a clue about how this scheme actually works.

Caliden

Pinch Flat wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/wanted-phd-grad-to-work-for-50-29924264.html

Good to know your 8 odd years of hard work is being recognized. Absolutely insulting from a multi-billion company who's also probably reaping our low corporation tax

Was just about to start a new thread for this.

Talk about a joke and the worst thing is the company knows they're abusing the system when they come out with a line like this: "We don't make the rules of the scheme, it's a government scheme. We offered the position to people who could not get employment"

kylith

Eight Ball wrote: »

SFA pal. Spoke to him last night at training actually and he's at his wits end. They cant make it on 28hrs a week looks grim. He'll be signing on soon and will be looking at emigrating towards the summer time.

That poor bloke. So sad that this scheme is impacting employed people as well as the unemployed. I think that is something that would be worth contacting the papers about.

starlit

I was just about to post on he PHd link from irishtimes if it isn't ridiculous enough they have to go through jobbridge understandable Masters maybe but a PHd just crazy.

Zillah

Grumpypants wrote: »

The best line is from graduates who complain that they can't get a job as employers want 2 years experience and when they look at jobsbridge all they see is internships offering that experience yet they can't figure it out in their heads to put the two together.

Because working for free for two years is a reasonable thing to expect someone to do.

Will you put in thousands of hours of free work for me? Don't be lazy now.

Idbatterim

here is a shortly to be vacant role, that could be filled by jobbridge, certainly no phd required :mad:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/quinn-assistant-who-said-he-had-no-work-to-do-in-line-for-33k-rise-and-promotion-29924350.html

tayto lover

Idbatterim wrote: »

here is a shortly to be vacant role, that could be filled by jobbridge, certainly no phd required :mad:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/quinn-assistant-who-said-he-had-no-work-to-do-in-line-for-33k-rise-and-promotion-29924350.html

Ha ha it's actually funny. These guys are living on a different planet.

PopePalpatine

tayto lover wrote: »

What was the result of reporting them?
I bet nothing happened.

If we want the exploitation of Jobbridge to end, we can't take a defeatist attitude about it.

cloudatlas

Grumpypants wrote: »

It's very easy to scoff at a car washing internship thinking what's to learn from washing cars? but I know two guys who did it, they learnt all about the correct equipment, chemicals and where to source them from, how to vallet properly, cash flow , customer interaction. Etc etc.

They took what they learnt and set up their own very successful business that is booming.

It's funny how often I have seen in this thread people knocking opportunities to get up and get some work place experience. Like the world owes them a living.

The best line is from graduates who complain that they can't get a job as employers want 2 years experience and when they look at jobsbridge all they see is internships offering that experience yet they can't figure it out in their heads to put the two together.

Read the thread. I'm happy for your friends but rare anecdotal examples do not make this scheme any less unethical.

Tombi!

She said it's been so standingly successful. Why is blatant lies a good tactic in interviews?
On the bright side she did say it was voluntary so at least we have it on record that you can't be forced to go out.

But still, how f**king drunk was she?

Grumpypants

runawaybishop wrote: »

No-one is scoffing at washing cars or saying there is nothing to learn from it. What we are saying is that it doesn't require an internship, it requires on the job training and a wage while you are doing it. Garages taking on people every 9 months to fill positions they have no intention of filling with a full time employee are taking the p1ss and should be called on it.

The scheme is not a scheme to test out employees before you hire them. It is for the person to gain experience. After 9 months all you should expect is to have 9 months on the job experience.

The choice is, sit on your hole watching day time TV and moaning about all the jobs you apply for requiring actual workplace experience. Or get up and gain that experience so you can apply for those jobs.

If a garage does have a job for a car wash attendant and two people apply. One has 9 months experience doing the job, and one has none because they sat at home refusing to "work for free"

Who do you think the employer will pick??

Zillah wrote: »

Because working for free for two years is a reasonable thing to expect someone to do.

Will you put in thousands of hours of free work for me? Don't be lazy now.

I did it for 3 years for zero pay sometimes doing up to 80 hours a week, and in the middle I put myself through another years college. I couldn't get social welfare because this scheme didn't exist at the time so I didn't even have that never mind the extra 50 quid on top.

Never once did I view it as working for free for 3 years I viewed it as setting me up in my career to allow me to work for the next 40.

runawaybishop

Grumpypants wrote: »

The scheme is not a scheme to test out employees before you hire them. It is for the person to gain experience. After 9 months all you should expect is to have 9 months on the job experience.

The choice is, sit on your hole watching day time TV and moaning about all the jobs you apply for requiring actual workplace experience. Or get up and gain that experience so you can apply for those jobs.

If a garage does have a job for a car wash attendant and two people apply. One has 9 months experience doing the job, and one has none because they sat at home refusing to "work for free"

Who do you think the employer will pick??

No experience is required for some of the roles though, they are traditionally roles with on the job training.

"One has 9 months experience doing the job, and one has none because they sat at home refusing to "work for free"
Who do you think the employer will pick?? "

None of the above, they will go with the person who will work 40 hours for 50 euro on jobbridge.

jme2010

From Independent.ie article.

"Clarochem Ireland, a custom manufacturing plant in Mulhuddart, asked that applicants held a minimum of a PhD in synthetic chemistry, and were capable of working on solo projects in a dynamic environment."

I work just beside that plant. In IBM.

I have to praise the Jobbridge scheme in my experience of it. When I finished college I only had an ordinary degree in Engineering because the final year didn't run due to low numbers. My interviews fell to pieces because I couldn't back up my knowledge with real life job experience.

Jobbriage was the only way I could get my foot in the door of a company like IBM. I knew if I could start learning and developing the skills required in the role, then I could present myself as the front runner when I applied for the job after the JB ended.

That's how I got the job. I was eventually hunted by 3 different managers and now proudly call myself and 'IBMer' :cool: I had to turn down 2 job offers and take the 3rd. I've never been wanted as a professional. I've never left an interview feeling like I had the job. The interviews here were all internal and relaxed. I could explain everything I knew and not feel pressured or nervous.

But, I also think its a shame letting companies take advantage of the unemployed or recently graduated with roles like 'car wash professional'. If you're dumb enough to fall for those ad's...well you are too dumb to be employed in the first place.

My Advice to I.T / comp science / Engineering Students
If you cant get hired because you lack the experience in your dream job, then look for similar roles on the JB scheme. Make sure you apply to large-very large reputable companies with proven intern programs...check their website for info on graduate programs. It's no use spending another year and 1.5K in college for additional certs...3 months on the job exposure is worth much more.

Xenji

That is great if you have a 3rd level education and that is what the scheme was created for, it was meant for graduates to get real life work experience, not the rubbish we see now, not many people I know will be dreaming of having their foot in the door of a petrol station/car wash or the ****e we have seen posted on the jobbridge website.

starlit

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/no-problem-with-jobbridge-firms-seeking-phd-interns-burton-1.1659274

This way of thinking is just not on saying if Phd grads are intimidating to employers and are Phd grads are overqualified what does it mean for Degree grads and those who are hold a Masters, are they overqualified too just not enough experience? What about those who only have a JC or leaving cert and apprentices its just as tough for them to find work without some kind of 3rd level qualification but sure its the same issue that crops up what ever 3rd level qualification level is achieved!? Meaning the majority emigrate remaining go into a career field into something similar to change career.

Its still hard enough to get foot in the door or do that but what happens after its difficult to get passed that sometimes regardless of length of work experience after college.

Tougher again to get interviews and get beyond that stage whilst competition and less jobs or not enough jobs to meet requirements.

starlit

runawaybishop wrote: »

No experience is required for some of the roles though, they are traditionally roles with on the job training.

"One has 9 months experience doing the job, and one has none because they sat at home refusing to "work for free"
Who do you think the employer will pick?? "

None of the above, they will go with the person who will work 40 hours for 50 euro on jobbridge.

Jobbridge are very fussy they are very particular how many hours a candidate work its either all or nothing or even more.

Xenji

doovdela wrote: »

Jobbridge are very fussy they are very particular how many hours a candidate work its either all or nothing or even more.

It is not up to Jobbridge to state how many hours the intern works, they have to do 30 hours a week minimum as a rule and 40 hours as a maximum, but it is up to the employer how many hours the intern works and that can be anything up to 13 hours a day as the intern is only entitled to a minimum daily rest period of 11 consecutive hours in every 24 hour period. The interns also are not checked up on by anyone till two weeks before they are due to leave in most cases I have worked with.

starlit

Sorry I should have meant Jobbridge employers as each jobbridge I've seen has varied in hours.

Nate--IRL--

jme2010 wrote: »

My Advice to I.T / comp science / Engineering Students
If you cant get hired because you lack the experience in your dream job, then look for similar roles on the JB scheme. Make sure you apply to large-very large reputable companies with proven intern programs...check their website for info on graduate programs. It's no use spending another year and 1.5K in college for additional certs...3 months on the job exposure is worth much more.

Would agree with most of that. Except the recommendation for only big companies. I started JB with a small IT company, 10 people, and I'm still here Full time. It isn't the size of the company that matter, but the quality. This can be almost impossible to judge until you've already started I suppose. But you can walk out anytime you like.

Certs, while they have their place, count for nothing against experience.

Nate

Pinch Flat

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/firm-defends-bid-to-hire-28-interns-under-jobbridge-29927409.html

It goes on and on

Zillah

Grumpypants wrote: »

I did it for 3 years for zero pay sometimes doing up to 80 hours a week, and in the middle I put myself through another years college. I couldn't get social welfare because this scheme didn't exist at the time so I didn't even have that never mind the extra 50 quid on top.

Never once did I view it as working for free for 3 years I viewed it as setting me up in my career to allow me to work for the next 40.

Wait, how did you feed yourself if you were working for three year for zero pay and no social welfare?

Regardless, now imagine how nice it would have been if they had to pay you a basic wage at the same time.

denlaw

Zillah wrote: »

Wait, how did you feed yourself if you were working for three year for zero pay and no social welfare?

Regardless, now imagine how nice it would have been if they had to pay you a basic wage at the same time.

Sorry, i'm not having any of what he said, 3 yrs no pay or social welfare, he's either got very wealthy parents or he got by eating grass and drinking rainwater...

denlaw

Grumpypants wrote: »

The scheme is not a scheme to test out employees before you hire them. It is for the person to gain experience. After 9 months all you should expect is to have 9 months on the job experience.

The choice is, sit on your hole watching day time TV and moaning about all the jobs you apply for requiring actual workplace experience. Or get up and gain that experience so you can apply for those jobs.

If a garage does have a job for a car wash attendant and two people apply. One has 9 months experience doing the job, and one has none because they sat at home refusing to "work for free"

Who do you think the employer will pick??



I did it for 3 years for zero pay sometimes doing up to 80 hours a week, and in the middle I put myself through another years college. I couldn't get social welfare because this scheme didn't exist at the time so I didn't even have that never mind the extra 50 quid on top.

Never once did I view it as working for free for 3 years I viewed it as setting me up in my career to allow me to work for the next 40.

bull****...

snubbleste

It's not the first time a firm has looked for a Phd on jobbridge. Why is it only making headlines now though?
Merck looked for a number of them in 2011 and 2012 http://www.broadsheet.ie/2011/08/12/jobbridge-theyre-offering-e50-a-week-on-top-of-social-welfare-to-someone-with-a-phd-in-chemistry/

Christy42

jme2010 wrote: »

My Advice to I.T / comp science / Engineering Students
If you cant get hired because you lack the experience in your dream job, then look for similar roles on the JB scheme. Make sure you apply to large-very large reputable companies with proven intern programs...check their website for info on graduate programs. It's no use spending another year and 1.5K in college for additional certs...3 months on the job exposure is worth much more.

If you think you are good enough to add to be of value to a company and can't get a job here then move abroad (if circumstances allow, but if they don't jobsbridge is probably of no use to you anyway.

50 euro is an insult to the skills these people have. When top level graduates in these courses or PhD's graduate and find they can't get a job without being forced to accept 50 euro a week then Ireland will lose a lot of the educated workforce it puts so much money into. There are jobs abroad and these countries will instead benefit from their new workforce's education.

Nate--IRL--

Christy42 wrote: »

If you think you are good enough to add to be of value to a company and can't get a job here then move abroad (if circumstances allow, but if they don't jobsbridge is probably of no use to you anyway.

Nonsense. If the scheme is used properly, both Intern and Employer can benefit.

Nate