The Jobbridge Scandal

Xenji

Has anyone heard anymore about the protests going on in Cork and Dublin this afternoon, it is really looking like the tide is turning against the scheme, we are seeing more and more the failings of it in the press, from reading comments on news stories as well it seems that the majority of people are against it and we are seeing more politicians coming out and criticising the scheme, plus Joan is starting to take a bit of a battering from all sides and it could not happen to a better person.

Xenji

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

Nonsense. If the scheme is used properly, both Intern and Employer can benefit.

Nate

If the scheme is not used properly the employer benefits as well, so it is win win for them, the poor intern has a pretty small chance of seeing much benefit.

Nate--IRL--

Xenji wrote: »

If the scheme is not used properly the employer benefits as well, so it is win win for them, the poor intern has a pretty small chance of seeing much benefit.

Totally agree.

Nate

dxhound2005

Xenji wrote: »

Has anyone heard anymore about the protests going on in Cork and Dublin this afternoon, it is really looking like the tide is turning against the scheme, we are seeing it more and more the failings of it in the press, from reading comments on news stories as well it seems that the majority of people are against it and we are seeing more politicians coming out and criticising the scheme, plus Joan is starting to take a bit of a battering and it could not happen to a better person.

I doubt if the majority of people even know it exists. It's such a small element of the labour market (about 0.2%?) that most people won't even know anyone who took part in it. I don't.

If people on the dole are against it they can ignore it, it's not compulsory. If every Jobbridge position got zero applications like about 2000 have currently then it would go away, no need for any protest.

Xenji

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I doubt if the majority of people even know it exists. It's such a small element of the labour market (about 0.2%?) that most people won't even know anyone who took part in it. I don't.

If people on the dole are against it they can ignore it, it's not compulsory. If every Jobbridge position got zero applications like about 2000 have currently then it would go away, no need for any protest.

Nice simple take on the matter, but that is the problem, it is not simple, you have 6285 people currently on internships, with another 1963 being advertised according to the JobBridge website, that is 8248 jobs that are being taken out of the economy. Companies are not giving internships out of the good of their hearts, they need the staff and god knows we need more jobs in this country and real paying jobs, not slave labor, but they are not willing to shell out for them, even at a minimum wage, so they exploit this scheme to their gain and have been doing it since nearly day one.

You also have 8248 people not paying any taxes, the cost of scheme to the government is just under €15 million a year if we just go by people getting their extra €50 a week and doing a 9 month internship or €70 million if we assume that every intern is getting the maximum €238 a week ( which I know not all are, but just using it as a figure).

I know plenty of people that have done the scheme, including my sister and girlfriend, I have mentored over 20 interns myself and all their friends know about it, sure like I mentioned before in my town we have over 30 jobs going on JobBridge and just 3 being advertised online as normal paid jobs. So a lot of people do know about this scheme as when they are looking for a job, they will be seeing a lot of these internships popping up or will be hearing from friends that they were offered internships.

You are quite naive to think people do not have to take these internships, the social welfare may not force them to, but their own circumstances might, an extra €50 could mean a lot to a person who has found himself unemployed and has a family to looks after, needs to buy food, pay rent ect....

denlaw

You'll never be idle if your prepared to work for nothing

zenno

Xenji wrote: »

Nice simple take on the matter, but that is the problem, it is not simple, you have 6285 people currently on internships, with another 1963 being advertised according to the JobBridge website, that is 8248 jobs that are being taken out of the economy. Companies are not giving internships out of the good of their hearts, they need the staff and god knows we need more jobs in this country and real paying jobs, not slave labor, but they are not willing to shell out for them, even at a minimum wage, so they exploit this scheme to their gain and have been doing it since nearly day one.

You also have 8248 people not paying any taxes, the cost of scheme to the government is just under €15 million a year if we just go by people getting their extra €50 a week and doing a 9 month internship or €70 million if we assume that every intern is getting the maximum €238 a week ( which I know not all are, but just using it as a figure).

I know plenty of people that have done the scheme, including my sister and girlfriend, I have mentored over 20 interns myself and all their friends know about it, sure like I mentioned before in my town we have over 30 jobs going on JobBridge and just 3 being advertised online as normal paid jobs. So a lot of people do know about this scheme as when they are looking for a job, they will be seeing a lot of these internships popping up or will be hearing from friends that they were offered internships.

You are quite naive to think people do not have to take these internships, the social welfare may not force them to, but their own circumstances might, an extra €50 could mean a lot to a person who has found himself unemployed and has a family to looks after, needs to buy food, pay rent ect....

@ Xenji

That extra €50 will be non-existent in relation to travel expenses to and from work in a five day a week job. So basically you will be using more money out of your social welfare for lunches and travel expenses, so I think the extra €50 is really not extra spending money for food or what have you.

Xenji

zenno wrote: »

@ Xenji

That extra €50 will be non-existent in relation to travel expenses to and from work in a five day a week job. So basically you will be using more money out of your social welfare for lunches and travel expenses, so I think the extra €50 is really not extra spending money for food or what have you.

It is not the case though for all people, but I know where you are coming from, in towns like Castlebar you would be able to walk to the job, sure my sister used to live across the road from where she did hers, but I know in cities this would be different.

zenno

Xenji wrote: »

It is not the case though for all people, but I know where you are coming from, in towns like Castlebar you would be able to walk to the job, sure my sister used to live across the road from where she did hers, but I know in cities this would be different.

For some folk in walking distance to work, then that will be a little extra cash for them, but most have to travel by bus or drive a distance.

Advance Pitstop are abusing the scheme, it is very clear that they are with wanting 28 Interns, crazy indeed.

Guy:Incognito

Grumpypants wrote: »

It's very easy to scoff at a car washing internship thinking what's to learn from washing cars? but I know two guys who did it, they learnt all about the correct equipment, chemicals and where to source them from, how to vallet properly, cash flow , customer interaction. Etc etc.

They took what they learnt and set up their own very successful business that is booming.
.

Autoglym offer all that as a 1 day course. 2 apprentices in the place I used to work went and did it.

Grumpypants

Zillah wrote: »

Wait, how did you feed yourself if you were working for three year for zero pay and no social welfare?

Regardless, now imagine how nice it would have been if they had to pay you a basic wage at the same time.

It would also be nice if they gave me back rubs and company trips to HawaiI also but they didn't.

But there was no high paid job available to someone with no experience. There was only the one to give me the experience, I used that experience as a stepping stone to get the job I wanted.

Grumpypants

Grumpypants wrote: »

It would also be nice if they gave me back rubs and company trips to HawaiI also but they didn't.

But there was no high paid job available to someone with no experience. There was only the one to give me the experience, I used that experience as a stepping stone to get the job I wanted.

So how did you live for 3 years with no income?

Grumpypants

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So how did you live for 3 years with no income?

I had an income from working for myself and I also did some other part time jobs. I took any crap job I could.

I didn't sit at home damanding a company hire me full time without any experience.

Paddy Cow

Grumpypants wrote: »

I had an income from working for myself and I also did some other part time jobs. I took any crap job I could.

I didn't sit at home damanding a company hire me full time without any experience.

By crap job do you mean minimum wage jobs that paid the bills? Because many "crap jobs" are now being advertised as internships. I have worked enough minimum wage jobs in my time to know that you don't need 9 months to learn the ropes.

Grumpypants

Grumpypants wrote: »

I had an income from working for myself and I also did some other part time jobs. I took any crap job I could.

I didn't sit at home damanding a company hire me full time without any experience.

Now that most of those crap jobs are being advertised as internships, how exactly are people supposed to get a crab job that allows them the freedom to work for 40 hours a week for free?

Grumpypants

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Now that most of those crap jobs are being advertised as internships, how exactly are people supposed to get a crab job that allows them the freedom to work for 40 hours a week for free?

The great thing is you don't have to work for free you can sign up for the scheme and get paid over 200 Euro a week into your pocket tax free while gaining valuable experience.

Grumpypants

Grumpypants wrote: »

The great thing is you don't have to work for free you can sign up for the scheme and get paid over 200 Euro a week into your pocket tax free while gaining valuable experience.

Just over 200 euro a week really doesn't go very far when you take into consideration all the costs. I know someone who has been pressurized into doing a Fas course of which part of is 3 months work experience. His place of internship is in Lougrea and the bus alone costs him 15 euro a day. Fas suggested that he move there in order to better serve his finances.

It's all well and good saying that it's 238 euro a week but is that fair compensation if you're spending 40 hours a week stacking shelves and many of your workmates are being paid close to 3 euro more per hour than you are?

Xenji

Deleted User wrote: »

Just over 200 euro a week really doesn't go very far when you take into consideration all the costs. I know someone who has been pressurized into doing a Fas course of which part of is 3 months work experience. His place of internship is in Lougrea and the bus alone costs him 15 euro a day. Fas suggested that he move there in order to better serve his finances.

It's all well and good saying that it's 238 euro a week but is that fair compensation if you're spending 40 hours a week stacking shelves and many of your workmates are being paid close to 3 euro more per hour than you are?

If you are under 25 you will be getting even less, an 18 year old will only be getting €150 euro a week for up to 40 hours work or the equivalent of €3.75 an hour.

Paddy Cow

Grumpypants wrote: »

The great thing is you don't have to work for free you can sign up for the scheme and get paid over 200 Euro a week into your pocket tax free while gaining valuable experience.

Or before Job Bridge you could get taken on at minimum wage and get roughly €346 into your pocket, which was €346 in the taxpayers favour, rather than €238 in their debt.

I would love to know what "valuable experience" you are talking about. You have said yourself that you have worked for free to further your career, which is commendable. While doing this, you worked "crap jobs" on the side to tide you over. Which means that you split jobs into two categories. Crap jobs that pay the bills and jobs that give you experience and further your career. This is exactly what we are talking about. No one has a problem with real internships that give someone valuable experience. What everyone is getting up in arms about is the amount of companies using Job Bridge to fill their entry level positions. Positions that don't take 9 months to learn how to do and wouldn't normally have a high wage attached to them.

Taking for example the Tesco fiasco. Plenty of people have worked in Tesco while furthering their career. At one stage Tesco were advertising for "shelf stacker" interns. There is no justification for this.

I can see your point. Doing an internship in a company that will lead to career prospects makes sense. Surely you can see ours. The vast majority of Job Bridge "Internships" only benefit the employer. As many have testified, they get on a scheme and end up doing the donkey work that no one else wants to do. How does this equate to proper, on the job, practical experience?

And before you get back on your high horse, I have done a work placement scheme were it was beneficial for me. I know these schemes can work if implemented properly but just because it worked out for me, doesn't mean I'll put the blinkers on and preach to everyone else from a height.

Tombi!

Grumpypants wrote: »

The great thing is you don't have to work for free you can sign up for the scheme and get paid over 200 Euro a week into your pocket tax free while gaining valuable experience.

Let's do a bit of maths, eh?
Assuming that you get minimum wage of 8.65 and work 35 hours a week: 302

302 euro that the government isn't giving you.
302 euro that the employer is giving you.

So why the f**k do you think it's a good idea to be given employers free employees and the government pays their "wages"?

ivytwine

It's also important to note that while you're on Jobbridge, you are in receipt of social welfare and you cannot do 'work for yourself' or any 'crap job' lest you want your payments stopped and face losing that internship.

I heard of a guy who gave one horse riding lesson a week, earning 20 euro, while on Jobbridge. SW found out and bye bye horse riding. So there is no way you can supplement yourself while on 197.00 a week (which is what I earned on JB at 24).

sunflower27

Also bear in mind that while you are on Jobbridge you are off the social welfare books (even though you are in receipt of social welfare).

You may find as I did, after doing a Jobbridge internship that you are not entitled to fuel allowance as your 6/9 months don't count as unemployed days (I think you need 390 days to be eligible forfuel allowance).

So, in trying to better yourself, you may forego fuel allowance when it is desperately needed.

It is so dodgy.

There are 10 advertised jobs in my local online paper. Guess how many internships are available.... 28!!! from hairdressers to receptionists, teachers and kitchen assistants and assistant removalists. What a joke!!

Grab All Association

Attachment 1 Receptionist and Catering assistant

Attachment 2 Shelf stacker in a supermarket

Attachment 3 Car valet and farm labourer

Attachment 4 is my favourite. You get the chance to join the Sacred Order of the Stonecutters who since ancient times, have split the rocks of ignorance that obscure the light of knowledge and truth. Also a internship with a craft butcher.

Attachment 5 Car washer, yard assistant and ESB meter reader.

runawaybishop

Chris___ wrote: »

Attachment 1 Receptionist and Catering assistant

Attachment 2 Shelf stacker in a supermarket

Attachment 3 Car valet and farm labourer

Attachment 4 is my favourite. You get the chance to join the Sacred Order of the Stonecutters who since ancient times, have split the rocks of ignorance that obscure the light of knowledge and truth. Also a internship with a craft butcher.

Attachment 5 Car washer, yard assistant and ESB meter reader.

Craft butcher is a good internship

Guy:Incognito

runawaybishop wrote: »

Craft butcher is a good internship

No, it's a good apprenticeship, which is what you do to become a butcher.

Mint Aero

I think if any business wants to recruit a jobsbridge intern they should be made declare what their profits are first. Prove that they can't afford to hire someone and are going under. Any business in substantial profit and availing of this scheme is taking the piss.

Hermy

Regardless of profits, if a company want to advertise an internship they need to have a position worthy of the name ie don't bother advertise for an internship if you're only looking to fill a general operative position!

rob316

Grumpypants wrote: »

The great thing is you don't have to work for free you can sign up for the scheme and get paid over 200 Euro a week into your pocket tax free while gaining valuable experience.

Great? You think working for 40 hours per week for €200 is great, in a job that requires very little skill and you really have no prospect of obtaining a full time position from it?

Its slave labour, duking the stats for the EU. Our elected officials don't give a toss about us ( the average working man), all they are working for is there grossly undeserved pensions.

Doctor Jimbob

rob316 wrote: »

Great? You think working for 40 hours per week for €200 is great, in a job that requires very little skill and you really have no prospect of obtaining a full time position from it?

Its slave labour, duking the stats for the EU. Our elected officials don't give a toss about us ( the average working man), all they are working for is there grossly undeserved pensions.

Pretty much this. I don't think many would be complaining if this internship scheme was used for internships, rather than being used to fill unskiled positions at no cost to the employer. I can't believe anyone thinks someone should be grateful at getting the 'opportunity' to work at a deli counter for well under minimum wage.

Wompa1

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Pretty much this. I don't think many would be complaining if this internship scheme was used for internships, rather than being used to fill unskiled positions at no cost to the employer. I can't believe anyone thinks someone should be grateful at getting the 'opportunity' to work at a deli counter for well under minimum wage.

People were up in arms when the scheme was first proposed. Not speculating that unskilled work would be fawned off but that they would be working graduate jobs for little pay....the majority didn't want this scheme in any way, shape or form.

I don't agree with all non-skilled jobs featuring but something like 20 hours a week of bar work would be good. It's tough to get that kind of work without any experience and it's something that can be used throughout most of the world. It's not a highly paid position either but it can be a tough nut to crack