The Jobbridge Scandal

Idbatterim

I believe the reality to be quite different. Businesses are struggling. The business environment is very harsh and by in large internships are the ONLY possibility of getting a fresh man in the door. Its not either / OR

Yeah, I made the same point a while ago on this thread and I have first hand experience of it... Say there are 6500 people currently with job bridge, how many job are actually being displaced because of it? I would say 20% ish. Logically, if jobbridge were that great for the employer, surely there would be a far larger take up from the employer, the 65oo as mentioned by Sean is a drop in the ocean...

Xenji

Idbatterim wrote: »

Yeah, I made the same point a while ago on this thread and I have first hand experience of it... Say there are 6500 people currently with job bridge, how many job are actually being displaced because of it? I would say 20% ish. Logically, if jobbridge were that great for the employer, surely there would be a far larger take up from the employer, the 65oo as mentioned by Sean is a drop in the ocean...

You can only have a maximum of 6500 at any one time, that is the limit.

SeanSouth

@Xenji - Sorry about your outrage there

If half of the 6500 internships represented what would otherwise be real jobs
(and I dont believe this for one minute) your chances of getting a job would be increased by about 1%. Theres no point in screaming the walls down about Jobbridge. Its just not significant enough in the overall scheme of things. In my view the 6500 internships represent very few real jobs. As far as Im concerned its a non-issue. Sorry to disagree

Idbatterim

You can only have 6500 at any one time, that is the limit.

Really? If this is the case, does it not contradict that the government is using it as an illusion to mask unemployment?

Xenji

Idbatterim wrote: »

Really? If this is the case, does it not contradict that the government is using it as an illusion to mask unemployment?

It is the 80000 people on other various schemes along with the 6500 on this scheme that people take issue with, even the CSO states that these people are not counted on the live register.

Guy:Incognito

SeanSouth wrote: »

@Xenji - Sorry about your outrage there

If half of the 6500 internships represented what would otherwise be real jobs
(and I dont believe this for one minute) your chances of getting a job would be increased by about 1%. Theres no point in screaming the walls down about Jobbridge. Its just not significant enough in the overall scheme of things. In my view the 6500 internships represent very few real jobs. As far as Im concerned its a non-issue. Sorry to disagree

Even if that were true, if your one of the ones that ends up with a job then its means a lot.

What if your competitor takes on interns to lower his wage bill then undercuts you to put you out of business?

6500 people on jobbridge means the government is spending €325000 extra every week on top of the dole to give companies free labour.

Why is it not up to the company to top the amount up to the minimum wage?That way they get a full time employee for about €160 a week and the government doesn't have to pay extra.

there are plenty of other dole figure massaging schemes going on too. What was it? something like 85000 is the total figure of people of "schemes" that see them being paid by the government but not included in live register figures.

Idbatterim

I said it before and I will say it again, a lack of skills isnt the problem, its a lack of jobs, the fortune that is spent on these schemes would be better off spent creating demand, increase capital expenditure, maybe lift the recruitment embargo (but hire on realistic wages, dc pensions, no lump sum on retirement etc), reduce the cost of business and cut red tape... As Sean said we have priced ourselves out of the market on certain industries, all this waffle on the "smart economy" there are hundreds of thousands who wont want to be a part of it or wouldnt have the skills or aptitude for it...

dxhound2005

Xenji wrote: »

You can only have a maximum of 6500 at any one time, that is the limit.

Wrong.

Xenji

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Wrong.

How so, or are you gonna pull one of your statistics out of the air again, I will stand corrected if you back it up, the other 2000 are set aside for private companies and a few other areas.

Ace2007

Xenji wrote: »

You can only have a maximum of 6500 at any one time, that is the limit.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Wrong.

I think it's 8,500. he probably got a digit wrong.

dxhound2005

Xenji wrote: »

It is the 80000 people on other various schemes along with the 6500 on this scheme that people take issue with, even the CSO states that these people are not counted on the live register.

The CSO doesn't take issue with anything. They compile statistics for the numbers employed, the numbers on the live register, and the numbers in activation programmes like Jobbridge. The classifications have always been kept separate so there is no new effort by the current government to massage the figures. If memory serves schemes like CE go back 20 or 30 years.

If you want a different way to count them then the 40,000ish who are in education/training programmes should be counted as students. University students although they are of working age are not counted on the live register. And the 30,000 on CE should be counted among the numbers employed.

dxhound2005

Xenji wrote: »

How so, or are you gonna pull one of your bull**** statistics out of the air again, I will stand corrected if you back it up, the other 2000 are set aside for private companies and a few other areas.

The Scheme provides for up to 8,500 work experience placements in the private, public, voluntary & community sectors. Interns receive an allowance of €50 per week on top of their existing social welfare entitlement. This is payable for the period of their internship.


There are currently 2034 internships available

6471 currently on an Internship

Xenji

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The Scheme provides for up to 8,500 work experience placements in the private, public, voluntary & community sectors. Interns receive an allowance of €50 per week on top of their existing social welfare entitlement. This is payable for the period of their internship.


There are currently 2034 internships available

6471 currently on an Internship

Sorry, I will agree with you on this, my apologies, I may have heard it wrong but a proportion are offered privately and they are hard to fill.

Ace2007

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The CSO doesn't take issue with anything. They compile statistics for the numbers employed, the numbers on the live register, and the numbers in activation programmes like Jobbridge. The classifications have always been kept separate so there is no new effort by the current government to massage the figures. If memory serves schemes like CE go back 20 or 30 years.

If you want a different way to count them then the 40,000ish who are in education/training programmes should be counted as students. University students although they are of working age are not counted on the live register. And the 30,000 on CE should be counted among the numbers employed.

if they are receiving the dole then they should be counted on the live register figures simple as that, you either are on it or your not. When I was in college I wasn't on the dole, hence I wasn't counted on the live register.

It really isn't hard to grasp at all.

dxhound2005

Ace2007 wrote: »

if they are receiving the dole then they should be counted on the live register figures simple as that, you either are on it or your not. When I was in college I wasn't on the dole, hence I wasn't counted on the live register.

It really isn't hard to grasp at all.

I have no difficulty grasping the concept, even though I never went to college. Inter Cert as it was, is as far as I got, had to go out to earn a living.

The difference is that the 85,000 are in education/training or in programmes like Jobbridge. They are a separate classification from the 400,000 who are seeking work but have decided not to take part in any of the schemes. Even though it is common currency on this thread that everyone on the live register is going to be forced into one of these programmes.

sligoface

SeanSouth wrote: »

@Sligo face - "They don't have to 'make their own jobs' in Oz or Canada, do they?

Well you might not be aware but 50% of American jobs (120 million people) are in "non-employer enterprises" ie - micro businesses of self employment

The employment golden goose that we once knew and loved with gold plated pensions and company cars is in rapid decline. The stars well still get employment
but my fear is that the people in the middle ground are now facing a new reality in all continents

What are you on about? It's getting harder and harder to make sense of your posts. I mentioned Australia and Canada, where most young people are leaving Ireland for, you start talking about America. You should hang with dxhound, he likes to cut and paste statistics to defend jobbridge as well, but at least he links to the source and doesn't replace one country with another. Do me a favor please and do a quick google search for 'percentage of Americans self employed'. You will get a list of recent articles like this one http://bit.ly/MVgI0P
which state that self employment in America is at the lowest point it has EVER been, with less than 7 percent non-farmers being self employed.

By the way, I lived in the US for most of my life, was never unemployed there or made to work for free. Though not sure why am I arguing with you because you didn't make a relevant point anyway and are unequivocally wrong in what you posted.

Show me where anyone here is saying they want a gold plated pension and company car? They are saying they merely want a job, any job that is not modern day slavery. And those 'golden goose' days are not gone at all for the politicians and public sector execs and bankers. But most ordinary workers never get those things and that's not what this thread is about at all. No one here is saying they want anything other than a job, and we are saying that it is a disgrace that the government is allowing jobs to be replaced by internships because it is keeping many of us unemployed.

You're on here declaring people who don't want to work for free as being greedy and entitled. Give me a break. Do you work for free?

shruikan2553

Strange the interns offer no value and yet lots of people I'm in college with will be doing 5 months in companies all over ireland for more than minimum wage plus other benefits when we still have 1 year of college before we graduate. We must be offering some value to the company despite our lack of experience or qualifications.

When I was looking at places to intern at last summer they also offered money, I was told "we dont believe in free internships", thats with me being only half way through college.

carzony

I disagree with all the different categories they have now. we have 485,000 unemployed IMO. I am a person that is 'in training'. Looking at the official figures really depress me and makes me think a future in Ireland with a decent job under me seems more and more unlikely.

Ann Landers

Part/Fully Qualified Accountant/Technician, Dublin:

Accountant
Coolock, County Dublin
The intern will gain practical experience in day to day accounting procedures, weekly/monthly reporting & preparation of accounts at month & year end. The intern will receive formal/informal training in the following; Quick Books, Monthly accounts preparation; presentation and communication skills and dealing with company auditors. On completion the intern will have attained skills in - day to day accounting functions, preparation of annual accounts, management accounts, budgets, cash flows, projections, Paye/PRSI returns and bank reconciliations.

Skills Requirements

The ideal candidate will have good IT skills be comfortable in the use of Microsoft Excel & Microsoft Word, have good organisational skills and be capable of working both as part of a team or independently when required. The intern must be well presented and have excellent communication skills.

Please Note:
This is an Internship. An allowance of €50 per week will be paid in addition to your current Social Welfare payment.See eligibility criteria above.

Department

Accounts/adminstration

Mentor

The Organisation will assign a mentor to support you during the Internship.

Duration

9 Months

Number of Positions

1

Contract Type

Other

Days, Hours & Start Date

Days per week: To be Advised
Hours per day: Not specified
Hours per week: 40

Start Date: TBC

Experience Required:
No Experience Required

Education Requirements:
Third Level -
Third Level - Full/Part Qualified Accountant/Accounts Technician.

http://ie.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=55319929c8adf564&q=where&l=Dublin&tk=18j394rej16r135h&from=web

I'm kinda confused about who this would even suit. Maybe someone doing the accounting or accounting tech exams on their own volition? Because someone who is in a training contract or doing the exams while in industry wouldn't need this as they'll be getting paid more than the internships offers, and a fully qualified accounting or accounting tech in the Dublin area won't need to resort to this. Maybe other parts of the country, but not Dublin.

darkpagandeath

Ann Landers wrote: »

Part/Fully Qualified Accountant/Technician, Dublin:



http://ie.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=55319929c8adf564&q=where&l=Dublin&tk=18j394rej16r135h&from=web

I'm kinda confused about who this would even suit. Maybe someone doing the accounting or accounting tech exams on their own volition? Because someone who is in a training contract or doing the exams while in industry wouldn't need this as they'll be getting paid more than the internships offers, and a fully qualified accounting or accounting tech in the Dublin area won't need to resort to this. Maybe other parts of the country, but not Dublin.

You need to look carefully how they are worded. Says you need to be able to work independently as well. So their basically looking for a qualified person to do a paid job for free. As your mentor is supposed to be guess what ... Mentoring you. If You are able to be left on your own to do this your doing a paid job for free.

Ann Landers

darkpagandeath wrote: »

You need to look carefully how they are worded. Says you need to be able to work independently as well. So their basically looking for a qualified person to do a paid job for free. As your mentor is supposed to be guess what ... Mentoring you. If You are able to be left on your own to do this your doing a paid job for free.

And a fully qualified accountant isn't going to be interested in a less than minimum wage job considering they wouldn't have been well paid for much of their traineeship!

sligoface

Another joke internship for bar work at a pub near me. They 'want some person' but don't want to pay! Besides that there is rarely more than one person there so duno how much mentoring will be going on.
Based in SLIGO TOWN Ref. INTE-833288
Description
The intern will gain practical experience in all aspects of bar work including stocking, cleaning, customers relations and serving out. The intern will receive formal/informal training in the following customer relations, social media networking, cleaning, stocktaking and tending bar On completion the intern will have attained skills in professional bartending up to senior level.

Skills Requirements
We want some person with a presentable manner, a willingness to learn and a team attitude to work.


Absolutely sickening. How do we report these, has anyone managed to get ads taken down or gotten any feedback?

darkpagandeath

sligoface wrote: »

Another joke internship for bar work at a pub near me. They 'want some person' but don't want to pay! Besides that there is rarely more than one person there so duno how much mentoring will be going on.
Based in SLIGO TOWN Ref. INTE-833288
Description
The intern will gain practical experience in all aspects of bar work including stocking, cleaning, customers relations and serving out. The intern will receive formal/informal training in the following customer relations, social media networking, cleaning, stocktaking and tending bar On completion the intern will have attained skills in professional bartending up to senior level.

Skills Requirements
We want some person with a presentable manner, a willingness to learn and a team attitude to work.


Absolutely sickening. How do we report these, has anyone managed to get ads taken down or gotten any feedback?

Report your having a laugh doubt anyone even looks after the website bar maintenance. Prob Maintained by some Fas internet. Or some manager put in charge of I.T. And the report email is probably setup to mark all received email as spam...

ivytwine

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Report your having a laugh doubt anyone even looks after the website bar maintenance. Prob Maintained by some Fas internet. Or some manager put in charge of I.T. And the report email is probably setup to mark all received email as spam...

Sadly true, but if you make your TD, the 'Scambridge' crowd, and newspapers aware it might publicly name and shame this crowd.

ThirdMan

darkpagandeath wrote: »

You need to look carefully how they are worded. Says you need to be able to work independently as well. So their basically looking for a qualified person to do a paid job for free. As your mentor is supposed to be guess what ... Mentoring you. If You are able to be left on your own to do this your doing a paid job for free.

Total rubbish. Have you ever been on any type of internship? A mentor does not stand by your side all day long to make sure you're not making mistakes. If you cannot show you're capable of working independently then you haven't a hope of making an impression. That goes for an internship or any other type of career opportunity.

There's enough problem with the programme as it is. There's no need to pull more of them out of your hole.

Xenji

ThirdMan wrote: »

Total rubbish. Have you ever been on any type of internship? A mentor does not stand by your side all day long to make sure you're not making mistakes. If you cannot show you're capable of working independently then you haven't a hope of making an impression. That goes for an internship or any other type of career opportunity.

There's enough problem with the programme as it is. There's no need to pull more of them out of your hole.

As a mentor, it is my job to set out work for the intern and I am the interns go to guy if they have any questions or want a chat about something. As you stated though I would not be with them all day, I see them a few times during the work day and they have enough initiative ( mostly ) to to come to me in the next office if they need more work to do.

carzony

Went up to Obair today and seen the biggest gang of people waiting in the reception. All of them received letters to attend a meeting. The women in charge came out and said there was so many people being sent up to them they've no courses left lol.

Sad times people... We have no even courses left...

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

darkpagandeath

ThirdMan wrote: »

Total rubbish. Have you ever been on any type of internship? A mentor does not stand by your side all day long to make sure you're not making mistakes. If you cannot show you're capable of working independently then you haven't a hope of making an impression. That goes for an internship or any other type of career opportunity.

There's enough problem with the programme as it is. There's no need to pull more of them out of your hole.

Were did I say that ? Having a mentor does not make you self-sufficient, That's why you need training in the job. If you did not need training what are you getting from the internship ?

ThirdMan

darkpagandeath wrote: »

You need to look carefully how they are worded. Says you need to be able to work independently as well. So their basically looking for a qualified person to do a paid job for free. As your mentor is supposed to be guess what ... Mentoring you. If You are able to be left on your own to do this your doing a paid job for free.

So the only people that can work independently are those that are already qualified at that profession?

I cannot accept that. To me, being able to work independently means that you can carry out the work that you are instructed to do without being constantly supervised.

If your problem is just with that particular 'internship' then fair enough. That is a rip-off and I hope those guys get what's coming to them. But generally speaking, people should not be scared off by the fact that they are required to work independently. If it is a legitimate internship then you will be assigned work to do and be left alone to do it, using your initiative as much as anything else. It's an internship, not play-school.