The Jobbridge Scandal

topcatcbr

I seems to me that people are judging success on the fact that some of those who did a jobsbridge jot jobs after.

However if there was no jobsbridge them same people would Likley still have gotten a job.

The fact that a person gets a job does not indicate success. It would have to be compared with the averages of those who got employment before the introduction of jobsbridge.

In that context I cannot see it helping at all. As those companies who require labour would employ wether or not there is a jobsbridge.

Holsten

I don't quite get that.

If there was no job bridge those people would not have 9 months work experience, they wouldn't have recommendations after it and they most likely still wouldn't have a job.

If used correctly the system works, either you are offered a job by the company you interned with or use that experience and recommendation to land another job.

All much better than 9 months collecting dole.

runawaybishop

Holsten wrote: »

I don't quite get that.

If there was no job bridge those people would not have 9 months work experience, they wouldn't have recommendations after it and they most likely still wouldn't have a job.

If used correctly the system works, either you are offered a job by the company you interned with or use that experience and recommendation to land another job.

All much better than 9 months collecting dole.

You don't need experience to get a job picking fruit or stacking shelves, which have been some internships pointed out on this thread. They are entry level positions with on the job training. Tesco advertised for 300 internships stacking shelves before they were found out and the ads removed.

Soft Falling Rain

Holsten wrote: »

I don't quite get that.

If there was no job bridge those people would not have 9 months work experience, they wouldn't have recommendations after it and they most likely still wouldn't have a job.

If used correctly the system works, either you are offered a job by the company you interned with or use that experience and recommendation to land another job.

All much better than 9 months collecting dole.

Look at my last post please, if you're let go by your host organisation then landing a similar PAID job is a mountain that is hard to climb.

Within that context your last comment is irrelevant as the experience you gained means nothing to other organisations.

tomwaterford

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

amm....no its not!!!:eek::eek:

why are they taking on interns if they don't have work for them

I was under impression this scheme was to be used as trial/training up period for jobs for people who don't have enough experience (using your example recently qualified soliciters)
.....are said companies just going to be eternally training exploiting young people???

Mrs Garth Brooks

I wonder if they got rid of these schemes and let employers to cough up the wages. Would the 85,000 people in activation schemes be kept on and paid a wage.

tomwaterford

HardLuckWoman wrote: »

I wonder if they got rid of these schemes and let employers to cough up the wages. Would the 85,000 people in activation schemes be kept on and paid a wage.

I would doubt it tbh
it would put a massive hole in this imaginary ''recovery'' and expose government lies on the unemployment rate

the main reason government pushing these in a real way IMO is there taking a calculated guess at who is most likely to be long term unemployed and forcing them onto these schemes so as when they come off them they can pay the lower dole rate of e121.....they aren't too pushed wheter people get jobs or not!!(obviousely they rather people get jobs off this)

the main thinking is to drive down long term dole expenses...if not...why open scheme to every chancer and not retrict to collage graduates needing experience like it was originally envisaged

everdead.ie

HardLuckWoman wrote: »

I wonder if they got rid of these schemes and let employers to cough up the wages. Would the 85,000 people in activation schemes be kept on and paid a wage.

There's only 6,000 on jobbridge about half of them are on back to education or self employed scheme.

topcatcbr

Holsten wrote: »

I don't quite get that.

If there was no job bridge those people would not have 9 months work experience, they wouldn't have recommendations after it and they most likely still wouldn't have a job.

If used correctly the system works, either you are offered a job by the company you interned with or use that experience and recommendation to land another job.

All much better than 9 months collecting dole.

What don't you understand.

1. People have rarely gone unemployed forever (unless they don't want to work).

2. It's obviously not used correctly. What training do you need to stack shelves in tesco that requires 9 months to learn.

3. I can think of far more productive ways to spend 9 months than on jobsbridge. Education or Volunteering for a worthwhile charity for example. This I think would look far better on a CV also

SeanSouth

There is an awful lot of misunderstanding on this site and I can confirm that
a lot of people here are drawing the wrong conclusions.

If I hire an intern as an employer , I get six or nine months to have a good look at this intern and at the end of this period, I can decide if this person is working out or not.

What am I looking for :
1) I'm looking to see if the intern is capable of doing the job
2) I'm looking to see if the employee is reliable, shows up on time and without absences
3) I'm looking to see if the intern can get along with the team
4) I'm looking to see if the intern has a healthy positive can-do attitude
5) I'm looking to see if the candidate might have the potential to grow into a more senior role some where down the road
6) I'm looking for the intern to add something fresh to the team and add value overall
7) I need to see energy, enthusiasm and plenty of outcome.

What I'm not looking for
1) Someone who is looking for a job but doesn't want to work
2) Someone who doesn't show any initiative
3) Someone who requires inordinate amounts of supervision.
4) Someone who is lazy
5 Someone with a bad attitude
6)Someone who is showing early signs of being unreliable
7) Someone who cannot perform the job satisfactorily
8) Someone who is not fitting in.
9) Someone who has no energy ideas or resourcefulness.
10) Someone who has no interest in the work
11) Someone who is a clock watcher.

So just remember this one thing. ITS ALL ABOUT THE INDIVIDUAL nowadays.
If you want to get hired you need to put in a big effort. Getting in the door is easy enough. Proving yourself is what you need to concentrate on once you're in the door. If you can prove yourself to an employer you have a very high chance of getting hired at the end.

If you enter an internship and just plod along, you wont get anywhere.

There was a reference earlier on in this thread to someone's friend who is spending his time in the internship reading magazines. That guy needs to get off his butt and go from office to office in that workplace until he is gainfully employed. He needs to pester his supervisor for work and he must get noticed.
He'll also get noticed for reading magazines, meaning that he wont be hired at the end of that internship.

Let me suggest to anyone here thinking about internships that you just park all the negative stuff. An intern is a means to an end. Its a bit of short term pain for long term gain. An internship will only suit people who are genuinely willing to put in the effort. An internship is an opportunity to showcase yourself. Anyone going forward with an attitude of entitlement, negativity and begrudgery should just sit at home and play X-box because no employer is going to retain that type of person.

B.A._Baracus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYAArJf537s

:pac:

Mrs Garth Brooks

SeanSouth wrote: »

There is an awful lot of misunderstanding on this site and I can confirm that
a lot of people here are drawing the wrong conclusions.

If I hire an intern as an employer , I get six or nine months to have a good look at this intern and at the end of this period, I can decide if this person is working out or not.

What am I looking for :
1) I'm looking to see if the intern is capable of doing the job
2) I'm looking to see if the employee is reliable, shows up on time and without absences
3) I'm looking to see if the intern can get along with the team
4) I'm looking to see if the intern has a healthy positive can-do attitude
5) I'm looking to see if the candidate might have the potential to grow into a more senior role some where down the road
6) I'm looking for the intern to add something fresh to the team and add value overall
7) I need to see energy, enthusiasm and plenty of outcome.

What I'm not looking for
1) Someone who is looking for a job but doesn't want to work
2) Someone who doesn't show any initiative
3) Someone who requires inordinate amounts of supervision.
4) Someone who is lazy
5 Someone with a bad attitude
6)Someone who is showing early signs of being unreliable
7) Someone who cannot perform the job satisfactorily
8) Someone who is not fitting in.
9) Someone who has no energy ideas or resourcefulness.
10) Someone who has no interest in the work
11) Someone who is a clock watcher.

So just remember this one thing. ITS ALL ABOUT THE INDIVIDUAL nowadays.
If you want to get hired you need to put in a big effort. Getting in the door is easy enough. Proving yourself is what you need to concentrate on once you're in the door. If you can prove yourself to an employer you have a very high chance of getting hired at the end.

If you enter an internship and just plod along, you wont get anywhere.

There was a reference earlier on in this thread to someone's friend who is spending his time in the internship reading magazines. That guy needs to get off his butt and go from office to office in that workplace until he is gainfully employed. He needs to pester his supervisor for work and he must get noticed.
He'll also get noticed for reading magazines, meaning that he wont be hired at the end of the internship.

Isn't that why companies has a probationary period ?

shruikan2553

SeanSouth wrote: »

There is an awful lot of misunderstanding on this site and I can confirm that
a lot of people here are drawing the wrong conclusions.

If I hire an intern as an employer , I get six or nine months to have a good look at this intern and at the end of this period, I can decide if this person is working out or not.

What am I looking for :
1) I'm looking to see if the intern is capable of doing the job
2) I'm looking to see if the employee is reliable, shows up on time and without absences
3) I'm looking to see if the intern can get along with the team
4) I'm looking to see if the intern has a healthy positive can-do attitude
5) I'm looking to see if the candidate might have the potential to grow into a more senior role some where down the road
6) I'm looking for the intern to add something fresh to the team and add value overall
7) I need to see energy, enthusiasm and plenty of outcome.

What I'm not looking for
1) Someone who is looking for a job but doesn't want to work
2) Someone who doesn't show any initiative
3) Someone who requires inordinate amounts of supervision.
4) Someone who is lazy
5 Someone with a bad attitude
6)Someone who is showing early signs of being unreliable
7) Someone who cannot perform the job satisfactorily
8) Someone who is not fitting in.
9) Someone who has no energy ideas or resourcefulness.
10) Someone who has no interest in the work
11) Someone who is a clock watcher.

So just remember this one thing. ITS ALL ABOUT THE INDIVIDUAL nowadays.
If you want to get hired you need to put in a big effort. Getting in the door is easy enough. Proving yourself is what you need to concentrate on once you're in the door. If you can prove yourself to an employer you have a very high chance of getting hired at the end.

If you enter an internship and just plod along, you wont get anywhere.

There was a reference earlier on in this thread to someone's friend who is spending his time in the internship reading magazines. That guy needs to get off his butt and go from office to office in that workplace until he is gainfully employed. He needs to pester his supervisor for work and he must get noticed.
He'll also get noticed for reading magazines, meaning that he wont be hired at the end of that internship.

Let me suggest to anyone here thinking about internships that you just park all the negative stuff. An intern is a means to an end. Its a bit of short term pain for long term gain. An internship will only suit people who are genuinely willing to put in the effort. An internship is an opportunity to showcase yourself. Anyone going forward with an attitude of entitlement, negativity and begrudgery should just sit at home and play X-box because no employer is going to retain that type of person

Seeing as only 1 in 3 people get a job after their internship I doubt this is how companies are looking at jobsbridge interns. As mentioned above, its called a probationary period, most companies have them.

SeanSouth

No a probationary period is something completely different. A probationary period is usually a clause in a permanent contract which allows the employer to terminate the contract due to lack of performance in the initial few months.
Sacking someone from a permanent position after failing a probationary period is very unpleasant for an employer and can be demotivating for a team.

An internship is a much better way.
Its a trial period for both parties to see if they are a good match for each other.
Its good for the employer because he can get a chance to evaluate the employee
without the cost of hiring an employee
Its good for the employee because they get a chance to show what they can contribute to the business and if successful have a good chance of permanent employment.

I dont know if that statistic is true or not. i think there are a number of reasons why an intern might not be offered a full time job at the end of the placement.

1) The internship may have failed either due to fault of intern OR employer OR both
2) The employer cannot afford to hire the intern as an employee
3) The employer is a rogue and just wants cheap labour.

Its up to the intern to carefully choose the internship they are entering
1) They need to assess if the employer is genuinely interested in hiring the intern at the end of the period, if everything works out
2) They need to assess if the business is running well and if it will have the financial capacity to hire them
3) They need to make an assessment on whether the employer is a rogue looking for cheap labour or not

Really, I have to say, this is not that hard to figure out.

shruikan2553

SeanSouth wrote: »

No a probationary period is something completely different. A probationary period is usually a clause in a permanent contract which allows the employer to terminate the contract due to lack of performance in the initial few months.
Sacking someone from a permanent position after failing a probationary period is very unpleasant for an employer and can be demotivating for a team.

An internship is a much better way.
Its a trial period for both parties to see if they are a good match for each other.
Its good for the employer because he can get a chance to evaluate the employee
without the cost of hiring an employee
Its good for the employee because they get a chance to show what they can contribute to the business and if successful have a good chance of permanent employment.

The only difference Im seeing is the payment part. Even then its perfectly possible to do a paid internship outside of jobsbridge.

Mrs Garth Brooks

SeanSouth wrote: »

No a probationary period is something completely different. A probationary period is usually a clause in a permanent contract which allows the employer to terminate the contract due to lack of performance in the initial few months.
Sacking someone from a permanent position after failing a probationary period is very unpleasant for an employer and can be demotivating for a team.

An internship is a much better way.
Its a trial period for both parties to see if they are a good match for each other.
Its good for the employer because he can get a chance to evaluate the employee
without the cost of hiring an employee
Its good for the employee because they get a chance to show what they can contribute to the business and if successful have a good chance of permanent employment.

The probationary period is also a trial period. In my last job I was never made permanent until after the probationary period. Knew people who were also let go after that probationary period.

topcatcbr

SeanSouth wrote: »

An internship is a much better way.
Its a trial period for both parties to see if they are a good match for each other.
Its good for the employer because he can get a chance to evaluate the employee
without the cost of hiring an employee
Its good for the employee because they get a chance to show what they can contribute to the business and if successful have a good chance of permanent employment.

It's only good for an employer for the reasons above. It is not a fair reflection of an employee as they won't be as motivated as one who is getting paid to work.

And the stats don't show a good chance of getting employed. They're skewed to show a better result. Even then they're not good.

It is pure exploitation and nothing else. There are few disadvantages for employers but I fail to see anything of value for an employee.

SeanSouth

You're absolutely right. The money is a huge part of it for a small business

If Im a small company and I agree to hire a person on full contract subject to probationary period of six months and the salary is 2000 per month and that employee contributes almost nothing during the probationary period, it means that I have lost 12,000 euro. Small businesses cant afford to lose that kind of money

shruikan2553

SeanSouth wrote: »

You're absolutely right. The money is a huge part of it for a small business

If Im a small company and I agree to hire a person on full contract subject to probationary period of six months and the salary is 2000 per month and that employee contributes almost nothing during the probationary period, it means that I have lost 12,000 euro. Small businesses cant afford to lose that kind of money

Then they need to work on their hiring policies, reduce the wages or just not hire someone. Its not the states job to subsidise their lack of business sense. Even when they get a worker for free they decide only 30% are worth keeping on. Somehow another 30% are seen fit for another company.

Ann Landers

topcatcbr wrote: »

It is not a fair reflection of an employee as they won't be as motivated as one who is getting paid to work.

This. All those super-motivated employees are motivated by pay.

topcatcbr

SeanSouth wrote: »

3) The employer is a rogue and just wants cheap labour.

Its up to the intern to carefully choose the internship they are entering

The social welfare are telling recipients they need to do a jobsbridge or they'll be cut payments.

So they cannot choose. And I cannot see most of the employers internships being of any benefit except maybe to those straight out of school.

topcatcbr

Ann Landers wrote: »

This. All those super-motivated employees are motivated by pay.

They don't have to be super motivated. But it's hard to be motivated when working for nothing.

SeanSouth

The problem with this thread has been the same from the beginning.

People are getting tripped up by the notion that they are being exploited
and because of this, they are not able to see the opportunity and that's a real pity.

Now I'm repeating myself here

1) Stay away from any internships that are going to train you in cleaning floors or sorting vegetables or any internships that are looking for cheap labour. Just forget about these.
2) Decide what type of training you want. Decide what type of job you want.
3) Approach the employer that you would like to work for in a professional way, explain what type of training you are seeking and what type of work you are seeking and offer to intern with that employer. Discuss the possibility of full time work at the end and ask the employer what their criteria would be for hiring you at the end. If they say there is no chance of a job at the end, walk away and on to the next
4) When you get in the door, work your butt off and remind yourself every hour that the reason you are doing all this is to get a job at the end.

In other words take control of the situation, have clear goals and absolutely no magazine reading, not even on your lunch break

Do this and you'll get hired.

topcatcbr

SeanSouth wrote: »

You're absolutely right. The money is a huge part of it for a small business

If Im a small company and I agree to hire a person on full contract subject to probationary period of six months and the salary is 2000 per month and that employee contributes almost nothing during the probationary period, it means that I have lost 12,000 euro. Small businesses cant afford to lose that kind of money

If someone contributed nothing you can terminate their employment at any time. If their salary is €2000pm it's hardly rocket science and you should be able to tell in a few weeks if they're right for job. The first month should tell a lot.

topcatcbr

SeanSouth wrote: »

The problem with this thread has been the same from the beginning.

People are getting tripped up by the notion that they are being exploited
and because of this, they are not able to see the opportunity and that's a real pity.

Now I'm repeating myself here

1) Stay away from any internships that are going to train you in cleaning floors or sorting vegetables or any internships that are looking for cheap labour. Just forget about these.
2) Decide what type of training you want. Decide what type of job you want.
3) Approach the employer that you would like to work for in a professional way, explain what type of training you are seeking and what type of work you are seeking and offer to intern with that employer. Discuss the possibility of full time work at the end and ask the employer what their criteria would be for hiring you at the end. If they say there is no chance of a job at the end, walk away and on to the next
4) When you get in the door, work your butt off and remind yourself every hour that the reason you are doing all this is to get a job at the end.

In other words take control of the situation, have clear goals and absolutely no magazine reading, not even on your lunch break

Do this and you'll get hired.

This is a very reasonable statement. And this has always been the case for the more professional careers.

This thread is about jobsbridge not internships for journalism or similar type profession.

The typical jobsbridge is waiter. Shelf stacker. I even seen farm labourer advertised.

SeanSouth

No you're wrong. If you try to terminate someone after one month you'll end up in a big argument with them saying that they haven;t had a chance to prove themselves yet.

Another poster said that without a proper salary the workers wont be motivated.
This is actually true for some and they are the ones that you don't want.
Did you know that nearly all Chartered Accountants go through a three year training program where they are paid virtually nothing, same for apprentice Solicitors. Highly motivated people who understand that they need to put in short term pain for long term gain. An internship is a six month training program for god sake, its not a 20 year sentence in Mountjoy. What Im trying to tell you is that if you chose the right internship and you put in a big effort, you will get hired. If you read magazines, you will be fired.

SeanSouth

An internship has always been about professional type careers

Any internship relating to farm labouring etc etc should just be ignored. Just forget about all that crap

Ann Landers

topcatcbr wrote: »

They don't have to be super motivated. But it's hard to be motivated when working for nothing.

Aye, but SeanSouth's list basically asks for a model employee. Without any employee benefits.

I don't have a problem with internships. But they shouldn't be for more than 3 months or so.

SeanSouth

Now you have it.

You do need to be a model employee to get hired in the current economy and thats what you need to aim for. Unfortunately You're in a competition with 400,000 others.

topcatcbr

SeanSouth wrote: »

No you're wrong. If you try to terminate someone after one month you'll end up in a big argument with them saying that they haven;t had a chance to prove themselves yet.

Another poster said that without a proper salary the workers wont be motivated.
This is actually true for some and they are the ones that you don't want.
Did you know that nearly all Chartered Accountants go through a three year training program where they are paid virtually nothing, same for apprentice Solicitors. Highly motivate people who understand that they need to put in short term pain for long term gain. An internship is a six month training program for god sake, its not a 20 year sentence in Mountjoy. What Im trying to tell you is that if you chose the right internship and you put in a big effort, you will get hired. If you read magazines, you will be fired.

I'm actually not unemployed. I am in a job over 20 years but I'd like to move to a different career. The trouble is I cannot move to a jobsbridge position as I cannot afford to work for nothing.

I know if I gave up work I'd be employed fairly soon but I think this scheme is a disgrace.

I have been keenly looking at the jobs sites and I also know several people with experience of this scheme.

It's bad for the jobs market as employers aren't getting the best as those who are the best May not be in a position to work for free. It costs to go to work.