The Jobbridge Scandal

Eight Ball

Eight Ball wrote: »

Two guys in my job where let go three months ago and lord and behold two job bridgers where "hired" at the beginning of the month. Guess someone has to pay for the bosses kids private education and the annual trip to florida for three weeks. Pr ick.

That is against the rules. I hope you reported it. If not, do so now.

Soft Falling Rain

Eight Ball wrote: »

Two guys in my job where let go three months ago and lord and behold two job bridgers where "hired" at the beginning of the month. Guess someone has to pay for the bosses kids private education and the annual trip to florida for three weeks. Pr ick.

Against the rules of the programme and illegal in general I believe.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Ann Landers

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

:pac::D

Because they want more bang for their buck? It's for their benefit, nobody else's.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Ann Landers

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Oh no, it would be of great benefit to society, but American MNCs could not care less about that. If there was nothing in it for them, they wouldn't bother criticising. They care about nothing but their bottom line. Indeed, that's the reason so many of them are here in the first place.

Don't like the quality of graduates here? Well then, go elsewhere. Oh wait, what's that? You want to take advantage of the lower corporation tax rate? Well then.

Blue Whale

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

And I'm sure that the car wash manager will then resign his position and let the car wash slave take his job.

Conall Cernach

Blue Whale wrote: »

And I'm sure that the car wash manager will then resign his position and let the car wash slave take his job.

Any car wash manger worth his salt would realise that all he has to do is offer an "assistant car wash manager" job bridge position to get someone to do all his work while he sits at home counting his money.

universal design3.12

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Well put up or shut up, offer a JobBridge internship on the exact terms you describe, document their progress over a few years and come back and show us the magic of the market.

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

A state sponsored internship? In other words a state intervention in the market, as part of a system of welfare (in reality workfare). Is that really compatible with right libertarianism?

universal design3.12

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Would this include those multinationals that exist mainly as brass plates in the IFSC.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

KyussBishop

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Except it's the lack of aggregate demand that is stopping people in general from entering the workforce, and your minimum wage argument is the 'fallacy of composition' again, as you assume that by eliminating the minimum wage you will increase employment in a certain section of the job market, when instead it can reduce wages overall and thus aggregate demand, which can again reduce the level of employment in all sectors (including that targeted sector).


You're not arguing in favour of unskilled people being given a helping hand into the workforce either, because you know people on job bridge are not made up solely of unskilled people - yet you cherry pick that example and form your arguments as if they all are, as it suits your general argument.

What you're really arguing in favour of, is skilled people being given menial internships that they have no opportunity to gain useful experience from - and by extension, them providing labour to business, paid for by the state instead of by the business, and which the business profits from - i.e. a state subsidy of the business.


You say you're Libertarian, but since true Libertarianism is impossible in reality, what it morphs into when you try to implement it and start compromising, is something much more akin to Neoliberalism - and unsurprisingly, the Libertarian policies of eradication of social welfare and attacks upon labour are cherry-picked, and the Neoliberal policies of state-subsidization of business are adapted - and the 'anti-government' arguments, morph into arguing for a transfer of control over society/business/politics, into the hands of business/finance (and what would eventually become oligarchy).

Your arguments better fit the ideology of Neoliberalism - except that's not very popular now, so Libertarianism is a handy mask to use instead (populist on socially libertarian policies, while promoting economic policies very amenable to Neoliberalism).

Nate--IRL--

I've done Jobbridge and have directly found employment in a new field from it - I'm a success story for Jobbridge.

However, Permabear I do take issue with your stance that this Scheme should be used for requiring unemployed people to take jobs that require little or no mentoring (Stacking shelves etc.) and have the taxpayer pay for it too.

The Schemes primary focus should be for the Interns benefit - to learn a skill over the course of the intern-ship that they would not obtain through education. I was lucky, the company I work for takes the scheme seriously and it has worked for all involved.

I moved from architecture into IT and if I was told I had to take an "Internship" in my local spar making sandwiches, there would have been hell to pay. The shift in what the scheme has actually become is so far removed from the initial concept, it is unrecognisable.

I am happy to see the Taxpayer subsidise those people and companies that offer proper mentoring. I see the benefit in the long run - more skilled employment benefits everybody. I am not happy to see the taxpayer subsidise employers that abuse this scheme for free labour. It misses the point, and why should the taxpayer pay for it?

In the nine months I was an Intern I learned constantly, every day. How anybody can see any benefit in a 9 month intern-ship stacking shelves, for anybody but the employer, I don't know.

Nate

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Ann Landers

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

People under 25 can have benefits cut.

Nate--IRL--

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Apologies, I misunderstood your position, we are probably on the same wavelength then.

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

No idea, however if it does in fact become an non-optional requirement I could see cases of it happening. There appears to be little oversight from Jobbridge themselves - absolutely none when I was was involved anyway. The scheme is not well executed.

Nate

saintsaltynuts

I've been reading this thread for a while now and have come to the conclusion that whoever invented internships should be shot.Working for free is a joke.People on here saying "Oh the experience they'll gain".." Oh it looks better on your C.V."....****E. You want to be somebodies boss pay them if not **** off.

Artful_Badger

saintsaltynuts wrote: »

I've been reading this thread for a while now and have come to the conclusion that whoever invented internships should be shot.Working for free is a joke.People on here saying "Oh the experience they'll gain".." Oh it looks better on your C.V."....****E. You want to be somebodies boss pay them if not **** off.

If its relevant though its worth it. A 6/9 month internship that allows you to say with confidence "I know how to do the job I'm going for because a company spent 6/9 months teaching me" will look a lot better than "Give me a chance".

The problem is when that experience is for lower end jobs that dont actually require any experience where you dont actually learn anything of worth. Then its just free labour.

dxhound2005

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

I've done Jobbridge and have directly found employment in a new field from it - I'm a success story for Jobbridge.

However, Permabear I do take issue with your stance that this Scheme should be used for requiring unemployed people to take jobs that require little or no mentoring (Stacking shelves etc.) and have the taxpayer pay for it too.

The Schemes primary focus should be for the Interns benefit - to learn a skill over the course of the intern-ship that they would not obtain through education. I was lucky, the company I work for takes the scheme seriously and it has worked for all involved.

I moved from architecture into IT and if I was told I had to take an "Internship" in my local spar making sandwiches, there would have been hell to pay. The shift in what the scheme has actually become is so far removed from the initial concept, it is unrecognisable.

I am happy to see the Taxpayer subsidise those people and companies that offer proper mentoring. I see the benefit in the long run - more skilled employment benefits everybody. I am not happy to see the taxpayer subsidise employers that abuse this scheme for free labour. It misses the point, and why should the taxpayer pay for it?

In the nine months I was an Intern I learned constantly, every day. How anybody can see any benefit in a 9 month intern-ship stacking shelves, for anybody but the employer, I don't know.

Nate

There are currently 32 placements available connected with Architecture. Also plenty under Accountant and Surveyor just two other "professional" catergories I checked.

http://intern.jobbridge.ie/Default.aspx?q=sjDArutve/3w53BLzNXooesjqRrGoX95L6zX310XQ+ZkPrjRXZfgnq9aCED/CBaEB7/EYciwt/RC+LOlNxs8UD9LAjj7M2Lo3u/cRXi0yliyP7RK7hJYFN5Gsp8+RANXSYBeOqEYtCqemWWEJdAziz9+vtGCYaMQMuy5jzXVd0sfV26ZiZV1AtDLuiMMZ4YdvvqI0PRMQpyMQ//ulCkhW+l4iceCn7/nTqJSqGeecF0WlrhRwEk5eHgVEeU55JZ3FjlbfsY6x8Zr8mG5jXdwAq4ciytM00z1ozmuvCrC6AlDERc1/IhNXmPFQtPl5ya2CldENQJlbk+Uzqd7NL6es1Vlm8iAv1ZYTpNiFYZMVmfCUke9XADABzXrp/jK8tfnqz7oyWB8+T0SL6z82cJsfg==

Checking under Car Wash, Valet etc I can find 6, none under Shelf Stacker. Anyone reading the last couple of pages would have gained the impression that the only things available are car washing and shelf stacking.

Ann Landers

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There are currently 32 placements available connected with Architecture. Also plenty under Accountant and Surveyor just two other "professional" catergories I checked.

http://intern.jobbridge.ie/Default.aspx?q=sjDArutve/3w53BLzNXooesjqRrGoX95L6zX310XQ+ZkPrjRXZfgnq9aCED/CBaEB7/EYciwt/RC+LOlNxs8UD9LAjj7M2Lo3u/cRXi0yliyP7RK7hJYFN5Gsp8+RANXSYBeOqEYtCqemWWEJdAziz9+vtGCYaMQMuy5jzXVd0sfV26ZiZV1AtDLuiMMZ4YdvvqI0PRMQpyMQ//ulCkhW+l4iceCn7/nTqJSqGeecF0WlrhRwEk5eHgVEeU55JZ3FjlbfsY6x8Zr8mG5jXdwAq4ciytM00z1ozmuvCrC6AlDERc1/IhNXmPFQtPl5ya2CldENQJlbk+Uzqd7NL6es1Vlm8iAv1ZYTpNiFYZMVmfCUke9XADABzXrp/jK8tfnqz7oyWB8+T0SL6z82cJsfg==

Checking under Car Wash, Valet etc I can find 6, none under Shelf Stacker. Anyone reading the last couple of pages would have gained the impression that the only things available are car washing and shelf stacking.

Very often, these menial positions disappear quickly, usually within a matter of hours. Either because they were reported, or because they got enough applicants to choose from in that time.

Car-washing and shelf-stacking were just two examples, also. Put in a variety of menial positions and the numbers should cumulatively rise quite steeply.

osarusan

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Anyone reading the last couple of pages would have gained the impression that the only things available are car washing and shelf stacking.

For the most part, people are acknowledging that there are worthwhile internships on the scheme. However, people are also criticizing internships which they think are not worthwhile or are exploitative. It's no surprise that most people would comment on these internships.

topcatcbr

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There are currently 32 placements available connected with Architecture. Also plenty under Accountant and Surveyor just two other "professional" catergories I checked.

http://intern.jobbridge.ie/Default.aspx?q=sjDArutve/3w53BLzNXooesjqRrGoX95L6zX310XQ+ZkPrjRXZfgnq9aCED/CBaEB7/EYciwt/RC+LOlNxs8UD9LAjj7M2Lo3u/cRXi0yliyP7RK7hJYFN5Gsp8+RANXSYBeOqEYtCqemWWEJdAziz9+vtGCYaMQMuy5jzXVd0sfV26ZiZV1AtDLuiMMZ4YdvvqI0PRMQpyMQ//ulCkhW+l4iceCn7/nTqJSqGeecF0WlrhRwEk5eHgVEeU55JZ3FjlbfsY6x8Zr8mG5jXdwAq4ciytM00z1ozmuvCrC6AlDERc1/IhNXmPFQtPl5ya2CldENQJlbk+Uzqd7NL6es1Vlm8iAv1ZYTpNiFYZMVmfCUke9XADABzXrp/jK8tfnqz7oyWB8+T0SL6z82cJsfg==

Checking under Car Wash, Valet etc I can find 6, none under Shelf Stacker. Anyone reading the last couple of pages would have gained the impression that the only things available are car washing and shelf stacking.

I can't imagine any shop advertising for a "shelf stacker". However if you go to your local "jobs" site you'll find many menial positions offered. They often look like a genuine job offer until you check the conditions of "employment".

Shelf stackers are often called "retail assistant" or "logistics opperative".

Not all jobs bridge are exploitative. There has always been a type of internship for many professions. Eg Architecture.

I have absolutely no problem with these.

However there are far too many menial positions advertised for jobsbridge. Eg retail assistant or farm labourer or van driver.

It's these I have a huge issue with. They not only demean the poor desperate individual but they also take a paid job from another thus reducing the spending power of the populace at the same time increasing the burden on tax payers like me.

dxhound2005

osarusan wrote: »

For the most part, people are acknowledging that there are worthwhile internships on the scheme. However, people are also criticizing internships which they think are not worthwhile or are exploitative. It's no surprise that most people would comment on these internships.

The impression is also being given that people on the dole are being forced to apply for the "menial" placements. If they are then it is very strange that Jobbridge can only ever fill about 6,500 out of the maximum 8,500 positions available. And tens of thousand of people can stay on the dole long term without ever being forced into one of these postions. Or into the much larger makework CE scheme which has existed for decades.

dxhound2005

topcatcbr wrote: »

I can't imagine any shop advertising for a "shelf stacker". However if you go to your local "jobs" site you'll find many menial positions offered. They often look like a genuine job offer until you check the conditions of "employment".

Shelf stackers are often called "retail assistant" or "logistics opperative".

Not all jobs bridge are exploitative. There has always been a type of internship for many professions. Eg Architecture.

I have absolutely no problem with these.

However there are far too many menial positions advertised for jobsbridge. Eg retail assistant or farm labourer or van driver.

It's these I have a huge issue with. They not only demean the poor desperate individual but they also take a paid job from another thus reducing the spending power of the populace at the same time increasing the burden on tax payers like me.

Instead of trying to imagine what employers might use as titles why not look them up first.

http://www.jobbridge.ie/

Three farm labourers, no van drivers wanted at present. There are 28 under Retail, 11 under Retail Assistant but some are duplicates. Your interpretation of the Logistics category as meaning shelf stacking does not equate with anything listed under Logistics on Jobbridge.

topcatcbr

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Instead of trying to imagine what employers might use as titles why not look them up first.

http://www.jobbridge.ie/

Three farm labourers, no van drivers wanted at present. There are 28 under Retail, 11 under Retail Assistant but some are duplicates. Your interpretation of the Logistics category as meaning shelf stacking does not equate with anything listed under Logistics on Jobbridge.

Instead of trying to make your point by pointing out my not using correct job titles look at your own figures.

28 retail . Essentially shelf stackers. And that's not a term I first used and not meant as an insult to those employed as such.

11 retail assistants. Same as above.

3 farm labourers. ffs.

What will any of these teach a person that will take 6/9 months.

Pure exploitation in my view.

This is a very narrow search of menial positions also.

I have little interest in looking up a jobs bridge position. I do however look up jobs sites from time to time and seen the examples there.

dxhound2005

topcatcbr wrote: »

Instead of trying to make your point by pointing out my not using correct job titles look at your own figures.

28 retail . Essentially shelf stackers. And that's not a term I first used and not meant as an insult to those employed as such.

11 retail assistants. Same as above.

3 farm labourers. ffs.

What will any of these teach a person that will take 6/9 months.

Pure exploitation in my view.

This is a very narrow search of menial positions also.

I have little interest in looking up a jobs bridge position. I do however look up jobs sites from time to time and seen the examples there.

Organic farm labourer. Anyone involved in farming will tell you that you it is a lifetime learning experience, certainly not something to be picked up in a week or two.

http://intern.jobbridge.ie/Default.aspx?q=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

tomwaterford

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Organic farm labourer. Anyone involved in farming will tell you that you it is a lifetime learning experience, certainly not something to be picked up in a week or two.

http://intern.jobbridge.ie/Default.aspx?q=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

as someone who lives/works time-to-time on a sheep farm/related to sheep farmers...you would learn them tasks listed in under a day/anyone with anything going on upstairs should only have to be shown once!!!