The Jobbridge Scandal

topcatcbr

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Organic farm labourer. Anyone involved in farming will tell you that you it is a lifetime learning experience, certainly not something to be picked up in a week or two.

http://intern.jobbridge.ie/Default.aspx?q=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

Are you seriously trying to tell me you think it is fair and reasonable to expect a labourer of any kind to work for free.

The term labourer itself means it is manual and not technical work. Life is a lifetime learning experience in the same way farm labouring is. Modern farm management may be a different story.

Edit;
Definition of "labourer" " a person doing unskilled manual work for wages."


By the way I am over 40yo and I have done farm labouring as a youngster. Back then it was pretty much all organic.

Xenji

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The impression is also being given that people on the dole are being forced to apply for the "menial" placements. If they are then it is very strange that Jobbridge can only ever fill about 6,500 out of the maximum 8,500 positions available. And tens of thousand of people can stay on the dole long term without ever being forced into one of these postions. Or into the much larger makework CE scheme which has existed for decades.

That is why we have the new Gateway scheme, we have over 100 people starting training next week and another 100 the month after, we have to send a list up on Monday to the social welfare office saying who attended, those that do not attend will have their dole cut. It is not a bad deal for them, they get 5 courses that would normally cost over €1000 combined, be bused or taxied to and from the training centre and made work 3 days a week doing various maintenance duties for the local authorities ( they probably will not like the last part ) when they have all their training done.

topcatcbr

Xenji wrote: »

That is why we have the new Gateway scheme, we have over 100 people starting training next week and another 100 the month after, we have to send a list up on Monday to the social welfare office saying who attended, those that do not attend will have their dole cut. It is not a bad deal for them, they get 5 courses that would normally cost over €1000 combined, be bused or taxied to and from the training centre and made work 3 days a week doing various maintenance duties for the local authorities ( they probably will not like the last part ) when they have all their training done.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/gateway-scheme-is-forced-labour-at-1-an-hour-dáil-hears-1.1713875

While I think this is a lot better than jobsbridge in that the local community (not a greedy employer)should get some benifit at least I would be concerned that it would be at the expense of someone's full time position.

In theory I'd have little issue with it tho.

Xenji

topcatcbr wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/gateway-scheme-is-forced-labour-at-1-an-hour-dáil-hears-1.1713875

While I think this is a lot better than jobsbridge in that the local community (not a greedy employer)should get some benifit at least I would be concerned that it would be at the expense of someone's full time position.

In theory I'd have little issue with it tho.

A lot of the maintenance and caretaker workers we had in my Council have either retired or left, due to the hiring freeze they could not be replaced, I would say other Councils are similar, so as it stands not many or any will lose their job, but it is taking away real full time well paid positions, the same as the multitude of interns we have had in, if the moratorium was lifted we could easily hire 100+ full time staff tomorrow and not have a revolving door of interns or people on short term contacts that we are not able to hire when they have done their 9 months.

topcatcbr

Xenji wrote: »

A lot of the maintenance and caretaker workers we had in my Council have either retired or left, due to the hiring freeze they could not be replaced, I would say other Councils are similar, so as it stands not many or any will lose their job, but it is taking away real full time well paid positions, the same as the multitude of interns we have had in, if the moratorium was lifted we could easily hire 100+ full time staff tomorrow and not have a revolving door of interns or people on short term contacts that we are not able to hire when they have done their 9 months.

While I'd rather this to happen all the money either for this scheme or council employee comes from taxes it's all the same. It might also serve as a way in for some when they do eventually start employing. It will also improve some areas which are deprived of Maintainance at the moment.

There was a similar scheme in the late 80s which I believe kick started the construction industry in the 90s. Something like this is badly needed.

Xenji

topcatcbr wrote: »

While I'd rather this to happen all the money either for this scheme or council employee comes from taxes it's all the same. It might also serve as a way in for some when they do eventually start employing. It will also improve some areas which are deprived of Maintainance at the moment.

There was a similar scheme in the late 80s which I believe kick started the construction industry in the 90s. Something like this is badly needed.

They are going running a rejuvenation programme in conjunction with the Gateway workers in the town, basically any derelict buildings will be cleaned up and painted, daily litter picking, the Council building itself will get a makeover and they will curb anti social behaviour, the last one I see not going as well as the others.

topcatcbr

Xenji wrote: »

They are going running a rejuvenation programme in conjunction with the Gateway workers in the town, basically any derelict buildings will be cleaned up and painted, daily litter picking, the Council building itself will get a makeover and they will curb anti social behaviour, the last one I see not going as well as the others.

It will take time to evaluate but it's a much better use of time than jobsbridge IMO.

Cantona's Collars

The only problem I see with the Gateway scheme is if it's seen as a cheap.long term solution to the embargo on hiring staff,what happens when LA workers retire or leave the job? Will they simply be replaced by Gateway scheme workers?

One problem I see in my local area is resentment towards lads on the scheme or on CE schemes by LA workers due to them "taking work away from them and depriving them of overtime".I know a few lads on this scheme & they have been berated for using initiative when working,one lad was told not to pick up rubbish beside where he was cleaning up a footpath as he was taking work away from lads who were working on the council,the rubbish was left there for nigh on a month,the guy who complained wasn't even the one who picked it up in the end.
With small minded attitudes like this it's gonna be hard for this scheme to prosper.

@DXhound, the internship for organic labourer is another sham,work unsocial hours picking vegetables for buttons,you'd learn the ins & outs of it in under an hour.What's next? Internships for fruit pickers in Wexford during the Summer?:rolleyes:

Xenji

zerks wrote: »

The only problem I see with the Gateway scheme is if it's seen as a cheap.long term solution to the embargo on hiring staff,what happens when LA workers retire or leave the job? Will they simply be replaced by Gateway scheme workers?

One problem I see in my local area is resentment towards lads on the scheme or on CE schemes by LA workers due to them "taking work away from them and depriving them of overtime".I know a few lads on this scheme & they have been berated for using initiative when working,one lad was told not to pick up rubbish beside where he was cleaning up a footpath as he was taking work away from lads who were working on the council,the rubbish was left there for nigh on a month,the guy who complained wasn't even the one who picked it up in the end.
With small minded attitudes like this it's gonna be hard for this scheme to prosper.



@DXhound, the internship for organic labourer is another sham,work unsocial hours picking vegetables for buttons,you'd learn the ins & outs of it in under an hour.What's next? Internships for fruit pickers in Wexford during the Summer?:rolleyes:

The embargo looks like it is being extended again, in that Prime Time episode where they had a debate about the Gateway scheme and JobBridge the TD mentioned it would not be lifted at the end of this year like it was supposed to be.

As it stands when people leave, retire, go on maternity or have a long term illness, we have used about 90% interns on JobBridge and a further 10% of people on short term contracts to replace them, coupled now with Gateway workers doing work outside the Council building, I can see the same trend going on for another year at least, but probably longer.

Fred Swanson

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mikom

Bridges......... gates.......... Trapdoors and dog flaps.

sligoface

From today's daily check of the fas website: 93 vacant positions in Sligo, but only 40 are actual jobs. The other 53 are either internships or ce. And a significant portion of the paid jobs are part time.

53 out of 93.And this scheme is supposed to be helping the unemployed get jobs?

One is for computer programmer for a local book shop where 'the intern will learn how to create a website from scratch', just another example of a company hiring an intern to avoid paying a web designer to make them a website. They shouldn't be allowed to offer an internship for things their business doesn't actually do.

Another for barperson, one for a maintenance worker. One for a 'waste management advisor' with the county council (a way of getting around the hiring freeze, no chance of a job at the end of it), one for a 'skilled labourer' to load and unload furniture in a warehouse, one for 'vehicle delivery and presentation assistant' (cleaning used cars for a dealership to sell on, great learning experience), and another for a 'car valet/garage assistant, at the same dealership, with basically the same job description of cleaning cars, which is not meant to be allowed.

Sickening.

Ann Landers

sligoface wrote: »

One is for computer programmer for a local book shop where 'the intern will learn how to create a website from scratch', just another example of a company hiring an intern to avoid paying a web designer to make them a website. They shouldn't be allowed to offer an internship for things their business doesn't actually do.

Indeed. One wonders what they will do when they realise that the website needs maintenance? Get another intern probably.

Permabear

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Permabear

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Mrs Garth Brooks

Permabear wrote: »

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Its a bookshop. How will the intern learn and gain new skills for 6/9 months. From some one who sells books.

To be honest, it wouldnt surprise me if you're Joan Burton herself. You dont see anything wrong with any of it.

runawaybishop

Permabear wrote: »

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You are just taking the proverbial now. The business is abusing the scheme by not providing any training or mentoring. You have presented some decent arguments previously but this post is ridiculous.

Permabear

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guinnessdrinker

Permabear wrote: »

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One of the key components of Jobbridge is that the hiring organisation must provider a mentor that already has the necessary skills (in this instance in computer programming and web design) to train the intern during the internship.

If the book shop does not have a computer programmer that already has these skills, who is going to do the mentoring?

CramCycle

My brother just got a job, all thanks to the skills he picked up on Jobbridge, which he would never have gotten otherwise as no one would hire him without experience. He got the job before the scheme was finished.

Mrs Garth Brooks

Permabear wrote: »

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Hope they send an 18 year old onto it to gain new website skills for themselves. Leave the bookshop high and dry and no one to teach the intern.

Permabear

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runawaybishop

Permabear wrote: »

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I can't be 100% sure that a bookshop does not have someone versed in website development that can teach the intern how to create a site from scratch. I am 99% sure that they are looking for someone qualified in website development to create a site for them for free though. This isn't the first ad of this nature we've seen.

Permabear

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runawaybishop

Permabear wrote: »

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Based on previous examples.

Beekay wrote: »

Went for an interview for a jobbridge internship. I'm only starting out in Web design/development so looking to get some real world experience where I can learn.

This company is not involved with Web design/development. They basically just want me to re-design their website.
There will be no mentor and no chance at a permanent position.
I feel I can do the job alone anyway.
I don't want to see them get free labour but it would be good for the cv I think. This could be a real job,temporary but real.

Permabear

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runawaybishop

Permabear wrote: »

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I don't need you to write my sentences for me, thanks.
I am prepared to publicly discuss abuses of the system, of which that position seems likely to be.

Permabear

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runawaybishop

Permabear wrote: »

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No, not all. Just internships in places unlikely to be involved in website development, such as bookshops. If they have a valid mentor all good and well.

Permabear

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