The Jobbridge Scandal

sligoface

KyussBishop wrote: »

Note that Permabear here equates, support for 'fairness' and 'equality', with resentment of success and wealth (a resentment he presents no evidence of).

No, really....if you support fairness and equality, you resent 'success' and 'wealth' - QED.

I think we've all been amused by his logic in this thread. Earlier he posted a hypothetical story where an intern was given a paid position by their host company after six months because they were so impressed by the interns work. As if any company using free labour for six months would just stop and pay the person a wage when they could still get three months out of him for nothing.

And this current government is not left wing at all, cutting social protection to the bone is the order of the day for this lot, and use media spin and fiddled numbers to tell us complete lies about how the economy is improving.

Within the last four weeks we've had at least four shops close, one was Pull & Bear in the local shopping centre which was pretty popular (or so I thought). There is a River Island next door rumored to go next. I lived in the states for over twenty years and I never saw any of the trendy clothes shops that were popular with students and young people and situated in a popular shopping centre have to close up. If anything they moved to a bigger premises.

Despite what the government would like us to believe, the economy in most of the country is still in dire straits and if we don't do basic things like lower the rents and rates for businesses in the towns, and get rid of slave schemes, there will be no jobs or businesses left. Businesses closing equals unemployment. Unemployed people have very little money to spend, and unpaid internships won't help with that. Which means less money being spent which equals more business closures which means more unemployment. This is the cycle we are in at the moment if you live outside the capital.

We might actually get to the point where there aren't enough businesses active in the town to take on the amount of slaves the government wants on the scheme, and then we'll see the real numbers, until they come up with something else.

osarusan

sligoface wrote: »

As if any company using free labour for six months would just stop and pay the person a wage when they could still get three months out of him for nothing.

The Indecon report suggests that this did happen.

It is probably just as silly to portray every host organisation as free-labour-seeking exploiters as it is to pretend that none of them are.

It is not hard for me to imagine a situation where a host takes on an intern, is impressed by what they bring to the company, decides that they want to have them at the company permanently, and hires them before the internship ends, to ensure that another company doesn't hire them in the final 3 months.

ivytwine

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I agree with you somewhat but for entirely different reasons. I don't think anyone would mind paying higher taxes if we got any services from it. As it stands, we have a health service in crisis, roads that are in ****e, a failing Victorian era water system- the list goes on. For example, the Swedes get childcare- we get a free year of pre-school: big woop.

For the taxes we are paying we should be getting proper services. The British pay council tax- granted, none of my British relatives are living in abject poverty- the streets and roads I've seen are all well-maintained. We will be paying a property tax but chalk it down, things will stay the same.

Instead who knows where our taxes are going. Part of it (though nowhere near as much as some would have you believe) are going to the SW bill (including paying those on jobbridge.

sligoface wrote: »

Within the last four weeks we've had at least four shops close, one was Pull & Bear in the local shopping centre which was pretty popular (or so I thought). There is a River Island next door rumored to go next. I lived in the states for over twenty years and I never saw any of the trendy clothes shops that were popular with students and young people and situated in a popular shopping centre have to close up. If anything they moved to a bigger premises.

I have absolutely no proof of this, but I really think the dire straits that many 20 somethings find themselves in directly contributed to the downfall of A-Wear. It was not a brand that suddenly became 'uncool' or jacked up its prices- it always provided stylish, well-made clothes at a reasonable price. Its target market was women like me- 20-somethings. And we all found our disposable incomes massively cut. Genuinely, I remember seeing something I wanted in A-Wear several times over the last few years and not being able to afford it (whereas when I was in college and working part-time, I would have been able to). I know I'm not alone. I really do think the cuts in young people's incomes led in part to the closure of that store.

osarusan

ivytwine wrote: »

Instead who knows where our taxes are going. Part of it (though nowhere near as much as some would have you believe) are going to the SW bill (including paying those on jobbridge.
.

Indecon report figures show Jobbridge saving something like between 21-25 million euro a year.

If that figure is correct (and the Indecon report seems fairly thorough to me) then it is money well spent.

ivytwine

osarusan wrote: »

Indecon report figures show Jobbridge saving something like between 21-25 million euro a year.

If that figure is correct (and the Indecon report seems fairly thorough to me) then it is money well spent.

Call me thick but how is it saving money? Aren't the government paying the interns?

osarusan

ivytwine wrote: »

Call me thick but how is it saving money? Aren't the government paying the interns?

By getting people off unemployment in better ratios. People on jobbridge tend to find employment faster than those who don't apply for internships (all things considered and weighted properly).

Of course, you could argue, as Kyuss Bishop does, that as jobbridge doesn't create employment, rather gives one unemployed person a slight edge over another, so that the 21-25 million quoted doesn't represent real moeny saved.

This is a serious argument, because if all jobbridge does is make one person more likely than another to get a job, but doesn't actually reduce unemployment in any way, that would weaken its position considerably.

We would need to know how many interns were hired when, if there hadn't been an internship scheme, nobody would have been employed at all.

Ann Landers

ivytwine wrote: »

I have absolutely no proof of this, but I really think the dire straits that many 20 somethings find themselves in directly contributed to the downfall of A-Wear.

I'd disagree a bit here. I think A-Wear's downfall was a result of a combination of the proliferation of cheaper chain stores carrying similar quality clothing and websites which have an unbelievable choice and great value.

When I started college in 2003, A-Wear was the student shop of choice because at the time it was the cheapest. The clothing quality wasn't great but you put up with it. Since then, New Look, H&M, ASOS and Forever 21 have come along. A-Wear clothes was now more expensive than these places, the quality wasn't great and the clothes were a bit blah. It was a bit uncool compared to, say, H&M, and H&M has the bonus of being cheaper too. This is the root of their downfall, IMO.

KyussBishop

osarusan wrote: »

By getting people off unemployment in better ratios. People on jobbridge tend to find employment faster than those who don't apply for internships (all things considered and weighted properly).

Of course, you could argue, as Kyuss Bishop does, that as jobbridge doesn't create employment, rather gives one unemployed person a slight edge over another, so that the 21-25 million quoted doesn't represent real moeny saved.

This is a serious argument, because if all jobbridge does is make one person more likely than another to get a job, but doesn't actually reduce unemployment in any way, that would weaken its position considerably.

We would need to know how many interns were hired when, if there hadn't been an internship scheme, nobody would have been employed at all.

The thing is, this is what the people arguing that JobBridge reduces unemployment, need to provide stats on, to fully justify their claim; minus that, the claim is just an assertion.

yankinlk

Where I work JB has been quite successful. Several of the past candidates have had different results, but all ended positive. I'm in a large multi , so yes very different to the shelf stacker jobs.

The results were mixed, some got jobs outside the company before they finished the JB scheme, some applied for other positions internally and were successful, others left, and were later contacted to apply for a different position that came up after. I don't think ANY were simply given a paid position for the same job that they did in JB.

Mrs Garth Brooks

Had a meeting a couple of weeks ago. Was told I should contact employers and ask for a slaveship. But nothing going.

Next, they were to send me on a useless basic computer course for 11 months. Its on the same level as the junior cert! What then after that, there's loads of secretary internships to use my mickey mouse qualification. 9 month internship + another 9 month internship = 18 months of slaveship. + 11 months of a useless course. Two and a half years, wasted. I hadn't a choice on courses.

Found a course I would like to do and put my foot down. Its a week long course. Fcuk me if i'll be forced onto a course for 11 months. If there's anything out there, i'll take advantage of it. I've been waiting 3 weeks to hear back about it. So looks like its not going to happen. I was even told when I was in with fas that funding isnt guaranteed (not with the b!tch I had) and this other course will always be available. So thats it the next time they call me in.

I wont be sold for two and a half years.

I booked a one way ticket to the UK for the end of the summer for €24. Have to be a better option to all this jobbridge crap and useless fas courses.

HardLuckWoman

HardLuckWoman wrote: »

Had a meeting a couple of weeks ago. Was told I should contact employers and ask for a slaveship. But nothing going.

Next, they were to send me on a useless basic computer course for 11 months. Its on the same level as the junior cert! What then after that, there's loads of secretary internships to use my mickey mouse qualification. 9 month internship + another 9 month internship = 18 months of slaveship. + 11 months of a useless course. Two and a half years, wasted. I hadn't a choice on courses.

Found a course I would like to do and put my foot down. Its a week long course. Fcuk me if i'll be forced onto a course for 11 months. If there's anything out there, i'll take advantage of it. I've been waiting 3 weeks to hear back about it. So looks like its not going to happen. I was even told when I was in with fas that funding isnt guaranteed (not with the b!tch I had) and this other course will always be available. So thats it the next time they call me in.

I wont be sold for two and a half years.

I booked a one way ticket to the UK for the end of the summer for €24. Have to be a better option to all this jobbridge crap and useless fas courses.

With an attitude like that, you'll be lucky to get a job anywhere, let alone UK. I'm not a fan of JobBridge, but it's possible that there is something of value to be gained from it. Do you have Office experience? If not, why not give one of those mickey mouse internships a go.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

With an attitude like that, you'll be lucky to get a job anywhere, let alone UK. I'm not a fan of JobBridge, but it's possible that there is something of value to be gained from it. Do you have Office experience? If not, why not give one of those mickey mouse internships a go.

The poster was pointing out that an 11 month course in basic computing is a waste if time and I agree. Part of the course I was on focused on setting up email, Facebook, twitter, etc and honestly it was a monumental waste of time. Full days spent on how to get an email address, something that you'd have to be a moron not to be able to do given that every provider holds your hand in doing so.

Then the poster is rightly a get that after 11 months he'd be facing a further 9 months as a secretary. Now nothing wrong with bring a secretary but spending 40 hours a week for 20 months and earning at most €238 a week is hardly enviable. There's no reason that anyone needs. 9 months to be trained in as a secretary, filing, answering phones, learning the basic computer programmes, etc shouldt take more than a week or two and after that a minimum wage should be paid

yankinlk

Its really all about what you make of the opportunity given you.

If you finish the task(s) given, cause they are so easy, and then ask for more demanding projects - and tackle them again with gusto - maybe the results will be positive. Each and every person that did well in our JB had this attitude. They may have been pissed off inside about wages - but none of them shown it.

All the JB's were also told to spend some of their time looking for jobs, as well as training, besides getting the assigned tasks done. I realize that not ALL JB's are like this. I love how all the complainers of JB get Thanks - and no one positive gets any.

SeanSouth

Ireland as a country has never been able to support all its population in employment. It wasn't possible in the 1840s. It wasn't possible in the 1940s or 1950s. It wasn't possible in the 1980s. It wasn't possible in the 1990s and its still not possible. Some of the younger contributors here seem to think that unemployment and emigration is something new and something to be angry about. Well get over it. Take responsibility for your own situation. Take responsibility for finding yourself a job or make a plan for emigration, as you wish. You need to see past this entitlement disease. Nobody owes you a living. Nobody is responsible for handing you a job on a plate. Young people sitting around on the dole, complaining about every initiative sent their way are absolute losers in my view.

If you don't have a job. If you're young and well educated, well, get off your ass do what millions of Irish people have done before you.
Go off and find a job abroad. Come back when you have gained some experience and skills and you'll be welcomed with open arms.
If you don't have any money, send a text to your rich Uncle Mick in Foxrock and I'm sure he'll fix you with a loan.

For Pete's sake stop all this moaning and groaning about Jobbridge and get on with it. If you don't like Jobbridge, try something else.

shruikan2553

SeanSouth wrote: »

Ireland as a country has never been able to support all its population in employment. It wasn't possible in the 1840s. It wasn't possible in the 1940s or 1950s. It wasn't possible in the 1980s. It wasn't possible in the 1990s and its still not possible. Some of the younger contributors here seem to think that unemployment and emigration is something new and something to be angry about. Well get over it. Take responsibility for your own situation. Take responsibility for finding yourself a job or make a plan for emigration, as you wish. You need to see past this entitlement disease. Nobody owes you a living. Nobody is responsible for handing you a job on a plate. Young people sitting around on the dole, complaining about every initiative sent their way are absolute losers in my view.

If you don't have a job. If you're young and well educated, well, get off your ass do what millions of Irish people have done before you.
Go off and find a job abroad. Come back when you have gained some experience and skills and you'll be welcomed with open arms.
If you don't have any money, send a text to your rich Uncle Mick in Foxrock and I'm sure he'll fix you with a loan.

For Pete's sake stop all this moaning and groaning about Jobbridge and get on with it. If you don't like Jobbridge, try something else.

Do you just skip to the end now and again to spout out this sort of thing? There was this exact point made and people commented on it. I look forward for you next post in 5 pages where you talk about internships again.

Gotta love telling young people they need to take responsibility when all we're seeing is people who spent more money than they have and put us in this situation are now trying to avoid responsibility.

SeanSouth

You don't expect me to read through all the rubbish that written on this thread do you ? One or two of those super negative contributions is as much as I can stomach at one time, I'm afraid

darkpagandeath

SeanSouth wrote: »

Ireland as a country has never been able to support all its population in employment. It wasn't possible in the 1840s. It wasn't possible in the 1940s or 1950s. It wasn't possible in the 1980s. It wasn't possible in the 1990s and its still not possible. Some of the younger contributors here seem to think that unemployment and emigration is something new and something to be angry about. Well get over it. Take responsibility for your own situation. Take responsibility for finding yourself a job or make a plan for emigration, as you wish. You need to see past this entitlement disease. Nobody owes you a living. Nobody is responsible for handing you a job on a plate. Young people sitting around on the dole, complaining about every initiative sent their way are absolute losers in my view.

If you don't have a job. If you're young and well educated, well, get off your ass do what millions of Irish people have done before you.
Go off and find a job abroad. Come back when you have gained some experience and skills and you'll be welcomed with open arms.
If you don't have any money, send a text to your rich Uncle Mick in Foxrock and I'm sure he'll fix you with a loan.

For Pete's sake stop all this moaning and groaning about Jobbridge and get on with it. If you don't like Jobbridge, try something else.

The topic is about Jobbridge.... And what pray tell should they try another unpaid placement ? Or applying for these none existent jobs ? Getting a job in another country has been done all that can have gone.

rawn

SeanSouth wrote: »

Ireland as a country has never been able to support all its population in employment. It wasn't possible in the 1840s. It wasn't possible in the 1940s or 1950s. It wasn't possible in the 1980s. It wasn't possible in the 1990s and its still not possible. Some of the younger contributors here seem to think that unemployment and emigration is something new and something to be angry about. Well get over it. Take responsibility for your own situation. Take responsibility for finding yourself a job or make a plan for emigration, as you wish. You need to see past this entitlement disease. Nobody owes you a living. Nobody is responsible for handing you a job on a plate. Young people sitting around on the dole, complaining about every initiative sent their way are absolute losers in my view.

If you don't have a job. If you're young and well educated, well, get off your ass do what millions of Irish people have done before you.
Go off and find a job abroad. Come back when you have gained some experience and skills and you'll be welcomed with open arms.
If you don't have any money, send a text to your rich Uncle Mick in Foxrock and I'm sure he'll fix you with a loan.

For Pete's sake stop all this moaning and groaning about Jobbridge and get on with it. If you don't like Jobbridge, try something else.

Wow... just wow.

SeanSouth

No You're wrong. More can go. A lot more can go. They just need to get off their butts.

Those who want to stay need to use their intelligence, resources and education to either find a job or create a job.

If more energy was used in realising that Jobbridge is a tool that can be used
to secure employment in organisations, everyone would be better off.

As other posters have pointed out. Interns have been hired by multinationals with positive outcomes in cases where those interns have applied themselves seriously in the workplace and came under notice for their performance.

Those losers who keep on mouthing on about slavery blah blah blah will still be sitting on the dole in ten years time. YOU WILL BE LEFT BEHIND. Take responsibility for yourself and concentrate on that

Dyr

SeanSouth wrote: »

Ireland as a country has never been able to support all its population in employment. It wasn't possible in the 1840s. It wasn't possible in the 1940s or 1950s. It wasn't possible in the 1980s. It wasn't possible in the 1990s and its still not possible. Some of the younger contributors here seem to think that unemployment and emigration is something new and something to be angry about. Well get over it. Take responsibility for your own situation. Take responsibility for finding yourself a job or make a plan for emigration, as you wish. You need to see past this entitlement disease. Nobody owes you a living. Nobody is responsible for handing you a job on a plate. Young people sitting around on the dole, complaining about every initiative sent their way are absolute losers in my view.

If you don't have a job. If you're young and well educated, well, get off your ass do what millions of Irish people have done before you.
Go off and find a job abroad. Come back when you have gained some experience and skills and you'll be welcomed with open arms.
If you don't have any money, send a text to your rich Uncle Mick in Foxrock and I'm sure he'll fix you with a loan.

For Pete's sake stop all this moaning and groaning about Jobbridge and get on with it. If you don't like Jobbridge, try something else.

Why don't you do the country a favour and f**k off somewhere else.

darkpagandeath

SeanSouth wrote: »

No You're wrong. More can go. A lot more can go. They just need to get off their butts.

Those who want to stay need to use their intelligence, resources and education to either find a job or create a job.

If more energy was used in realising that Jobbridge is a tool that can be used
to secure employment in organisations, everyone would be better off.

As other posters have pointed out. Interns have been hired by multinationals with positive outcomes in cases where those interns have applied themselves seriously in the workplace and came under notice for their performance.

Those losers who keep on mouthing on about slavery blah blah blah will still be sitting on the dole in ten years time. YOU WILL BE LEFT BEHIND. Take responsibility for yourself and concentrate on that

I have worked for a blue chip multinational. They used to take on paid interns on short contracts to see if they were acceptable. Now they get to do that for free. I used to train people in some would not last 2 weeks on a paid internship now they get used for 9 months regardless. low performance vs. no pay.

SeanSouth

SeanSouth wrote: »

No You're wrong. More can go. A lot more can go. They just need to get off their butts.

Those who want to stay need to use their intelligence, resources and education to either find a job or create a job.

If more energy was used in realising that Jobbridge is a tool that can be used
to secure employment in organisations, everyone would be better off.

As other posters have pointed out. Interns have been hired by multinationals with positive outcomes in cases where those interns have applied themselves seriously in the workplace and came under notice for their performance.

Those losers who keep on mouthing on about slavery blah blah blah will still be sitting on the dole in ten years time. YOU WILL BE LEFT BEHIND. Take responsibility for yourself and concentrate on that

If you bothered to read the thread you'd see that most agree that there's potential in the idea just the implementation and abuse leaves a lot to be desired.

I wonder will you be so eager for the youth to leave when you're in your 70s and realise that there aren't enough young people paying tax her to pay for all your old age benefits. Saying that more should go is ridiculous. No one should be forced to leave their country and people certainly shouldn't be saying that we need more to go.

If jobsbridge is such a great tool then why is it that so many businesses keep advertising positions. Is it because all those who do the 9 months or useless or is it more likely that businesses are abusing it for free labour. Honestly it's hard to defend a initiative that allows Supervalue to hire shelf stackers, cafes to hire waitresses and restaurants to hire dish washers at no cost to the business

shruikan2553

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I have worked for a blue chip multinational. They used to take on paid interns on short contracts to see if they were acceptable. Now they get to do that for free. I used to train people in some would not last 2 weeks on a paid internship now they get used for 9 months regardless. low performance vs. no pay.

Im in the same situation. Doing a paid internship in between 2 college years and yet if I cant find a job for awhile when Im fully qualified I would be expected to work for a lot less than Im getting now despite not even being qualified. Think it would be 150 a week, might be in the higher bracket but still even less than the 238 others get.

shruikan2553

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Im in the same situation. Doing a paid internship in between 2 college years and yet if I cant find a job for awhile when Im fully qualified I would be expected to work for a lot less than Im getting now despite not even being qualified. Think it would be 150 a week, might be in the higher bracket but still even less than the 238 others get.

Difference between jobsbridge and a traditional internship is that few traditional internships last for 9 months and can involve you being told to wash the bosses car, pick his kids up from school, get everyone's lunch, etc.

chopper6

green_screen wrote: »

That leaves me 44 pw to buy food, toiletries, underwear, clothing.

The three staples of life.

Ann Landers

chopper6 wrote: »

The three staples of life.

In the hierachy of needs, they're pretty important, the absolute basics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

Seems to be a lot of people who think that those without a job, especially the young should emigrate. Can I asks where these people think the money to emigrate will come from. If you're under 25 and getting €100 a week I can't see many being able to afford flights and have enough money to cover the cost if the days, maybe weeks it takes to find a job.

Xios

Deleted User wrote: »

Seems to be a lot of people who think that those without a job, especially the young should emigrate. Can I asks where these people think the money to emigrate will come from. If you're under 25 and getting €100 a week I can't see many being able to afford flights and have enough money to cover the cost if the days, maybe weeks it takes to find a job.

Sure everyone on the dole lives at home with their rich mums and dads, don't cha know? None of them have kids, or other responsibilites, they just stay home, play games and use aur tax monies.

darkpagandeath

Xios wrote: »

Sure everyone on the dole lives at home with their rich mums and dads, don't cha know? None of them have kids, or other responsibilites, they just stay home, play games and use aur tax monies.

Yeah some people actually think that. It's the Governments money to dish out once the tax is paid

PopePalpatine

SeanSouth wrote: »

No You're wrong. More can go. A lot more can go.

Great, off you go so. The market wills it. :rolleyes: