The Jobbridge Scandal

Artful_Badger · 14-04-2014 12:33pm

I'm not sure its the core problem but it certainly is a problem that so much time and resources are put into teaching Irish when another European language would be of much much more benefit.

ivytwine · 14-04-2014 12:35pm

I'm sure it could all be done- maybe less time on Irish. Certainly less time on religion (which is what I blame all Ireland's problems on :pac:)

14-04-2014 12:38pm

You can't use the example of a family with kids 15-18 emigrating to back up a point that emigrating is easy.

You seem to think tha emigrating is as easy as just getting up and going. You can quote all the figures you want but for many unemployed it's almost impossible.

No one denied that emigration was happening. In fact we've all stated as much but that for many it's not a possibility. You are the one who thinks that anyone can easily emigrate. They can't and we've been trying to explain that to you. Not many unemployed young people can afford it, especially not those who fend for themselves. But hey, sure if a few people can leave and have nanny and daddy pay for it then it must be simple for everyone.

Permabear · 14-04-2014 12:39pm

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Permabear · 14-04-2014 12:40pm

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Xenji · 14-04-2014 12:42pm

Plenty of real full time jobs going in the Council for people who are fluent in Irish, they are so needed that they get a special dispensation from the moratorium, but not many are taking them, we get the same circular every week and only a couple will have been filled, a friend of mine got a great job translating documents.

14-04-2014 12:45pm

Again you pick and choose what points suit your agenda. We all know unemployed people leave every day, no one is denying that. What we are saying is that for many, particularly in the 18-24 year age bracket it's quite difficult and almost impossible for many.

Someone who is providing for themselves and getting €100 a week cannot leave without serious help from others. In many cases that help is nowhere to be found. Do you honestly believe that someone getting €100 a week to live off can save up the thousands it costs to emigrate?

KyussBishop · 14-04-2014 12:46pm

To be honest, it's pretty hard to believe Irish is even still on the curriculum - nevermind being mandatory (even more unbelievable).

Think about it: It's such a gigantic waste of money and resources - with absolutely no benefit provided to society at all - and is actively harmful to peoples education, by wasting their time and creating a barrier where they have to take time away from other subjects, to learn this nonsense, and then 100% forget about the language after school.

Got to be up there, as being among the biggest cumulative wastes of resources, in our countries history.

Permabear · 14-04-2014 12:48pm

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14-04-2014 12:50pm

Yet again you take a statement and don't look at the context. For many people, not all its almost impossible to save up enough to emigrate. Someone who is unemployed and getting €100 a week and providing for themselves isn't going to be easily able to save up to emigrate.

norrie rugger · 14-04-2014 12:51pm

Parents giving them money. Darko plainly asked how someone supporting themself could achieve this

osarusan · 14-04-2014 12:52pm

I don't see what emigration has to do with whether or not jobbridge does what it says on the tin.

Permabear · 14-04-2014 12:57pm

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KyussBishop · 14-04-2014 1:04pm

Perfect example really, of disingenuous use of stats that PermaBear knows is dishonest, because he knows Darko is talking about unemployed young people, and he knows the '35,000' stats don't quantify the unemployed...

It's more about framing the debate, to talk-up emigration - not to actually debate the facts surrounding it, just to selectively pick/choose/misrepresent them, wherever it suits talking-up emigration.

The way to counter this is: Highlight in unmissable detail, that it is the unemployed that are being talked about and that those stats don't represent the unemployed - and then when those stats keep being pushed, point out that PermaBear is now aware of the dishonesty of those stats, and then start panning him based on the dishonesty in his arguments.

norrie rugger · 14-04-2014 1:08pm

Answer this.

Given €100 a week and NO support from parents/family, could you afford to emigrate?

Backstreet Moyes · 14-04-2014 1:09pm

In the four years up to 2013 there were far more paying jobs and people had money to go. The majority of my friends who emigrated done it three or four years ago while they were working and saved to go. Even those who didn't work were on €208 and at home and saved up. Now 19-24 year old's are getting €100 per week so how do they save up. You have to give money to the household then need some essentials. Whether your working or not everybody needs some social time or they will go insane. Saving up to go on €100 a week even if you lived like a monk who didn't leave the house would take a serious amount of time. Saying mom and dad are funding the majority of people on the dole going abroad is is not a lame rebuttal it is the most likely answer.

14-04-2014 1:14pm

Sweet Jesus but this is getting ridiculous. I have repeatedly stated that I am talking about unemployed young people. Anyone aged 18-24, who is unemployed and fending for themselves gets €100 a week. Even those living at home will most likely contribute toward the day to day running of the house. How is either set, especially the former able to save up the thousands it costs to emigrate

Lets break it down, John is 23 and unemployed. He lives in a house share with 3 others. Each Tuesday John gets €100. €50-60 goes on rent, €25 on food, €10 on bills and €10 is spent during he week job searching. How is John to save up enough to emigrate.

Michael is also 23 but lives at home. He hands up €50-60 a week to his parents. He spends a €10-20 a week job searching and a further €10 for other expenses. While he's better off than John he's still in a position where it will take hom months, maybe years to save up enough go emigrate.

Also remember that a lot of young people font even get the €100 given that they are means tested against their parents income. Meaning that many young self sufficient people who get no help from home could be getting as little as €50 a week.

I offered no fanciful explanations or excuses, merely pointed out that many who emigrate do so for a limited amount of time and return. Many of them go travelling and then come home. Not all but some. It's very easy to band about figures but with no context offered its impossible to know the situation of each individual. You seem to think that everyone has the same circumstances and that there's not a huge difference from one person to the next

Permabear · 14-04-2014 1:23pm

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14-04-2014 1:26pm

So obviously you think that emigrating is simple as saying, "Jesus, off to Australia it is". The youth are being forced to leave, of that there is no doubt but still there are many young people who simply cannot afford to leave. I know numerous people who have left and more ego want to but simply can't afford it. It's expensive to leave and few unemployed people do it on their own. Most of those that leave have help, parents and family who lend them money. Some don't have that, some families can't afford to give money to help someone leave

norrie rugger · 14-04-2014 1:27pm

So you won't answer the question?

norrie rugger · 14-04-2014 1:28pm

Many of our emigrants have jobs already or use redundancy/savings to fund the trip.

I know that I could not afford to go

Permabear · 14-04-2014 1:28pm

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Permabear · 14-04-2014 1:31pm

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14-04-2014 1:32pm

I told him that a few ages ago and he ignored it. Lot of people I know who are leaving are walking out of jobs. I know that I can't afford to emigrate but I'm saving to go and hope to be out of this country in 2 years

norrie rugger · 14-04-2014 1:32pm

Never mind your skills and experience.

Could you afford to emigrate, with no other source of income other than €100 per week?

Permabear · 14-04-2014 1:34pm

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14-04-2014 1:35pm

What was I claiming earlier? Are you referring to where I stated that some emigrants were only gone travelling? That some were taking a year out from college. Cause you know what, it's true many people leave every day with the intention of seeing some of the world before coming back.

My brother is a case in point, he's gone the last few months with a one way ticket but plans to return in a few months. I'm sure that if the statistics of emigrants was done up while he was away he'd be counted as an emigrant given that he purchased a one way ticket.

norrie rugger · 14-04-2014 1:38pm

So no, you could not afford to pay for it WITHOUT any other support?
You know exactly the question being asked yet, at every turn, attempt to muddy the waters to avoid admitting that you have taken an incorrect position

Permabear · 14-04-2014 1:38pm

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Mrs Garth Brooks · 14-04-2014 1:39pm

Not every company are going to pay for relocation expenses.

The Jobbridge Scandal

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