Newbie looking for a good kit

um7y1h83ge06nx

Hi lads,

First time in this part of Boards.

So I want to get into kit brewing and have been looking at kits which is a little confusing.

A few questions:

How much better is it to brew using 2 fermenter buckets in a brew than just using a single one? The Homebrew Company claim that it will "produce a cleaner tasting beer, this also has the advantage of allowing the beer to clear a little and reduce the sediment in the barrel or bottle."

Is a heating brew belt handy to have or just a luxury?

Are the bigger fermenter buckets (30L and 33L) handier than a standard 25L?

Which kit would you recommend? I'd be looking to bottle using my own bottles.

I see this one:

http://www.homebrewwest.ie/brewsmarter-starter-beer-kit-with-caps-and-capper-531-p.asp

It claims that you can brew without having to open the fermenter as much (should lower the risk of bacteria?)

Or there is this maybe:

http://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/beer-cider-starter-kit-includes-25lt-fermenters-p-213.html

When it comes to what to brew first I think I'll go for an Ale as I heard that darker beers are easier for the newbie. Why is that?

Thanks in advance for your help, I'm eager but confused!

um7y1h83ge06nx

Ah, I see how handy 2 buckets can be when it comes to bottling.

I found this kit as well:

http://www.homebrewwest.ie/brewferm-syphonless-traditional-starter-kit-with-bottling-bucket-caps-and-capper-best-value-1372-p.asp

vapour_trail

Hi I am just starting out like yourself. I ordered my kit from these Homebrewwest guys but service was very slow. It arrived this morning (Saturday) and it was missing vital pieces from the fermenter :mad::mad::mad: Now I have to wait another week before I can do anything ! So annoyed ! I ordered this one
http://www.homebrewwest.ie/brewsmarter-starter-beer-kit-with-caps-and-capper-531-p.asp

BeerNut

Jacob Poor Rifleman wrote: »

Hi lads,

First time in this part of Boards.

Welcome! There's a lot of good information in the threads already, so search around.

Jacob Poor Rifleman wrote: »

How much better is it to brew using 2 fermenter buckets in a brew than just using a single one? The Homebrew Company claim that it will "produce a cleaner tasting beer, this also has the advantage of allowing the beer to clear a little and reduce the sediment in the barrel or bottle."

Having two (or more) buckets is handier all round. I don't know that it'll actually make your beer better but it does make the process easier, or allows you to make more than one batch at a time. Chances are you'll be buying a second bucket at some point anyway; may as well get it with the first.

Jacob Poor Rifleman wrote: »

Is a heating brew belt handy to have or just a luxury?

I wouldn't say it's either. More an unnecessary liability which has the potential to ruin your beer. Room temperature is fine for fermenting, in most cases.

Jacob Poor Rifleman wrote: »

Are the bigger fermenter buckets (30L and 33L) handier than a standard 25L?

Yes, it's nice having the extra flexibility.

Jacob Poor Rifleman wrote: »

I heard that darker beers are easier for the newbie. Why is that?

They are more strongly flavoured, so if anything goes wrong, the malt and hops will help cover your mistakes. With the lighter-flavoured pale beers any mistake will be very apparent immediately.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Thanks for the welcome BeerNut.

I did an huge amount of swotting over the weekend, such a wealth of info on here and elsewhere.

Great that the beers I like to drink (various ales and wheat beer rather than lagers) are the easier ones to brew.

I reckon I'm probably going to go for this kit as it seems to have what I want (or think I want) without any un-necessary bits. Although I'll get a traditional 12 inch thermometer as well to help measure the temp of the water to prep the yeast in, test the samples etc.

As for a beer kit I'm going to keep it simple and go for a decent 3kg Ale kit. I saw good reviews for Woodfordes Admirals Reserve and St Peter's Ruby Red Ale, so one or the other.

Only thing holding me back is the lack of bottles, I only have about 15 500ml bottles at the moment. I'm going to try and build up he collection before I order the kit although I could break and just end up buying some.

I also found a teacher to show me how to make wine, my girlfriend's grandfather. He never brewed beer but was fond before of making various fruit wines. He hasn't done it in a few years but he has all the gear (demijohns, bubblers etc.).


Just one or two more quick starter questions.

I'm a little confused about primary and secondary. I can either do a primary fermentation (1 week in the first bucket?) then siphon to the secondary (2 weeks in the second bucket?) then batch prime and bottling by siphoning back into the first on the day of bottling. Or I just keep it in the first and move to the second when batch priming and bottling?

How long to leave the beer settle in the bottling bucket when batch priming before I bottle? Seeing as I shouldn't stir the beer to mix the sugar into it is time the only way of leaving the sugar syrup mix in.

Sanitising/Rinsing/Draining bottles - I'm planning on sanitising in a big bin, rinsing in the sink and draining by impaling them upside on the little prongs in the dishwasher. Sound reasonable enough? I'm a bit paranoid about introducing bacteria.

Thanks!

BeerNut

Jacob Poor Rifleman wrote: »

I'm a little confused about primary and secondary. I can either do a primary fermentation (1 week in the first bucket?) then siphon to the secondary (2 weeks in the second bucket?) then batch prime and bottling by siphoning back into the first on the day of bottling. Or I just keep it in the first and move to the second when batch priming and bottling?

Either will work. Go for the second, simpler, option starting out.

Jacob Poor Rifleman wrote: »

How long to leave the beer settle in the bottling bucket when batch priming before I bottle?

I don't leave it any time. Put the priming solution in first and siphon the beer on top of it. It all mixes in fine, instantly.

Jacob Poor Rifleman wrote: »

Sanitising/Rinsing/Draining bottles - I'm planning on sanitising in a big bin, rinsing in the sink and draining by impaling them upside on the little prongs in the dishwasher. Sound reasonable enough?

Should be fine. Using a non-rinse sanitiser will allow you to skip a step, though; and a bottling tree is handy to have for draining.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Thanks again for the tips.

Anyway, I couldn't wait until I had enough bottles so I just got 36.

Product Code: 101372
Description: Brewferm Syphonless Traditional Starter Kit With Bottling Bucket, Caps And Capper (Best Value)
Item Price: € 59.95
Qty: 1
Total: € 59.95

---

Product Code: 100121
Description: Thermometer 12
Item Price: € 3.45
Qty: 1
Total: € 3.45

---

Product Code: 100452
Description: Woodfordes Admirals Reserve 3 Kg
Item Price: € 26.95
Qty: 1
Total: € 26.95

---

Product Code: 101288
Description: Brewery Quality Glass Beer Bottles 500 ml, 12-pack Amber
Item Price: € 6.94
Qty: 3
Total: € 20.82

Keedowah

Good stuff - let us know how the brew turns out for you. The first one that I brewed was a beer that I never tried before so wasn't sure how it should have tasted, turns out it wasn't great, but I'm not sure if that was the kit or me!

So my bit of advice is to go for a style that you like/normally drink - and not something wacky!

BeerNut

Keedowah wrote: »

my bit of advice is to go for a style that you like/normally drink

... while bearing in mind that there's no such thing as a lager kit.

um7y1h83ge06nx

BeerNut wrote: »

... while bearing in mind that there's no such thing as a lager kit.

They just all use ale yeasts then do they? I read somewhere alright that the Coopers European Style Lager kit is really more of a light Belgian Ale.

BeerNut

Jacob Poor Rifleman wrote: »

They just all use ale yeasts then do they?

Yes. They're designed for fermenting at room temperature.

mayto

Brupaks Special Lager comes with a bottom fermenting lager yeast, but you will have to ferment at about 10C for a few weeks and near zero for a few more weeks to make a genuine "lager". This kit will turn out fine too fermented at normal ale temps as you really need a temperature controlled fermentation setup for a true lager, especially with the warmer weather now.

eric90000

Jacob Poor Rifleman wrote: »

Thanks again for the tips.

Anyway, I couldn't wait until I had enough bottles so I just got 36.

Product Code: 101372
Description: Brewferm Syphonless Traditional Starter Kit With Bottling Bucket, Caps And Capper (Best Value)
Item Price: € 59.95
Qty: 1
Total: € 59.95

---

Product Code: 100121
Description: Thermometer 12
Item Price: € 3.45
Qty: 1
Total: € 3.45

---

Product Code: 100452
Description: Woodfordes Admirals Reserve 3 Kg
Item Price: € 26.95
Qty: 1
Total: € 26.95

---

Product Code: 101288
Description: Brewery Quality Glass Beer Bottles 500 ml, 12-pack Amber
Item Price: € 6.94
Qty: 3
Total: € 20.82

Hey Super_sonic, I'm just starting out brewing myself and came across this thread. How did you find that particular starter kit that you ordered, I'm thinking about getting either that one or the BrewSmarter one. Can't wait to get going but wanna make sure I get the right stuff. Also how did you find "bulk priming" in the second fermenter as opposed to priming individually in the bottles? did you have trouble working out how much brewing sugar to use?

um7y1h83ge06nx

With the weather being so hot when I ordered I delayed started the first brew. I thought the ambient temperature in the house might be a bit high and I only have a timber garden shed which heats up like crazy.

I'll have my first batch ready for bottling this weekend. It will have been fermenting for 3 weeks at this stage, I'm not doing secondary fermentation.

I like the kit, two buckets are handy for bulk priming. Taps on the bottom is handy if you're nervous/impatient and want to take a sample to smell/taste or you want to measure gravity. Overall I can't complain so far. Took a sample on Sunday and it's tasting/smelling well.

For the bulk priming I will be using this calculator to determine how much sugar I need. People reckon it's okay here to use normal table sugar as the quantity is small.

http://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/

sharingan

eric90000 wrote: »

Also how did you find "bulk priming" in the second fermenter as opposed to priming individually in the bottles? did you have trouble working out how much brewing sugar to use?

Batch priming is great, a real time saver. It also 'averages' out any priming errors that you might get if you were spooning sugar individually into bottles. And if you are careful with how you siphon, you can ensure none of the yeast cake/krausen ring gets into the bottles.

For priming sugar, a level teaspoon per 500ml bottle.

For fermentables, the 3Kg kit wont need any extra.

eric90000

Jacob Poor Rifleman wrote: »

I like the kit, two buckets are handy for bulk priming. Taps on the bottom is handy if you're nervous/impatient and want to take a sample to smell/taste or you want to measure gravity. Overall I can't complain so far. Took a sample on Sunday and it's tasting/smelling well.

Thats great, glad to hear its a good kit. So the BrewFerm kit you got http://www.homebrewwest.ie/brewferm-syphonless-traditional-starter-kit-with-bottling-bucket-caps-and-capper-best-value-1372-p.asp

comes with 2 identical fermenters both with taps? so does that mean you don't have to mouth syphon, you can just connect the hose to the tap and transfer the beer into the priming bucket?

was trying to decide between that kit and this one http://www.homebrewwest.ie/brewsmarter-starter-beer-kit-with-caps-and-capper-531-p.asp

but the BrewFerm one you got comes with 2 fermentors, so will probably get that one. Looking forward to starting, seems like a great hobby to have.

eric90000

sharingan wrote: »

Batch priming is great, a real time saver. It also 'averages' out any priming errors that you might get if you were spooning sugar individually into bottles. And if you are careful with how you siphon, you can ensure none of the yeast cake/krausen ring gets into the bottles.

For priming sugar, a level teaspoon per 500ml bottle.

For fermentables, the 3Kg kit wont need any extra.

Yeah from what I've read on forums and videos etc batch priming seems like the way to go alright. I was planning on doing either the Coopers Stout or the Lager as my first brew, with a 1KG bag of brewing sugar. Would you recommend I batch prime the very first time I brew, or is bottle priming easier for beginners?

And do I wait until the beer is ready to be bottled before I calculate how much sugar to add to the priming bucket?

um7y1h83ge06nx

Yeah. the first one is the one.

You're right, 2 identical buckets both with taps and just connect the hose to one tap and away you go.

As sharingan said batch priming is both handier and more accurate for carbonation so that's why one of my main requirements for a kit was to have 2 fermenters.

sharingan

eric90000 wrote: »

I was planning on doing either the Coopers Stout or the Lager as my first brew, with a 1KG bag of brewing sugar.

Stout will be better as your first brew, more forgiving. Kit Lager will never turn out like real lager (you have to refrigerate to do a lager).

Skip 'brewing sugar', or 'brew enhancer' for fermenting beer. It is just either pure dextrose (flavourless) or malt extract cut with dextrose. Never use any simple sugar as a beer fermentable unless you know why you are doing it. It is a very fast way to make an insipid beer, with odd cidery off-flavours.

Use all malt, either Light Dry Malt Extract or Liquid Malt Extract. HBW have a really cheap own brand tin of LME (brew at home). Its good, and ideal for kits.

Would you recommend I batch prime the very first time I brew, or is bottle priming easier for beginners?

Batch priming is another step, but it makes things easier. It has some good advantages, like not sucking up the yeast cake into your bottles, and it allows for consistent carbonation across your batch.

And do I wait until the beer is ready to be bottled before I calculate how much sugar to add to the priming bucket?

Yes, but for reference, a 20L brew will need about 120g of table sugar for priming.

sharingan

eric90000 wrote: »

comes with 2 identical fermenters both with taps? so does that mean you don't have to mouth syphon, you can just connect the hose to the tap and transfer the beer into the priming bucket?

Well you can, but I would advise you not to. Those taps can be a source of infection, especially if you are taking gravity readings regularly which will never be cleaned properly while your fermenter is in use.

If siphoning is a hassle, consider getting a siphon clip, which make it massively easier to stabilise a siphon tube at the source end.

eric90000

sharingan wrote: »

Stout will be better as your first brew, more forgiving. Kit Lager will never turn out like real lager (you have to refrigerate to do a lager).

Skip 'brewing sugar', or 'brew enhancer' for fermenting beer. It is just either pure dextrose (flavourless) or malt extract cut with dextrose. Never use any simple sugar as a beer fermentable unless you know why you are doing it. It is a very fast way to make an insipid beer, with odd cidery off-flavours.

Use all malt, either Light Dry Malt Extract or Liquid Malt Extract. HBW have a really cheap own brand tin of LME (brew at home). Its good, and ideal for kits.

Oh ok, I didn't realise that, only reason I was leaning towards the brewing sugar was because of the cost and people on youtube etc using it. That LME on Home Brew West looks good, so I take it you just use, for example the Stout kit, and 1kg of the LME in place of brewing sugar? rather than the full 1.5kg LME.

Thanks for the info, glad I'm learning all of this stuff now rather than wasting money on bad brews.

Do ya reckon its possible to clean the tap prior to connecting the tube, like putting sterilizer in a spray bottle and spraying it up the tap? or would you just stick to mouth syphoning as a rule?

um7y1h83ge06nx

After Sharingen's last post I went to clean my tap.

I filled a shot glass with a tiny bit of bleach and the rest hot water.

I rose this up under the tap so the whole nozzle was sitting in the water for about five mins.

I then rotated the nozzle 180 degrees, put a bowl under it and poured the water through the tap so it went in what is normally the bottom and came out a little circular hole at what is normally near the top.

Now I don't know if this is adequate enough for bottling though....

eric90000

Alright so I think I'm gonna get the same BrewFerm kit you got Super_Sonic and I've decided to start with the Coopers Stout as my first brew. Any tips?! Should I get a 1.5kg tin of LME and use the whole thing? Also I've read that filling it up to about 18 - 20 litres produces a nicer stout, any truth in this?

sharingan

eric90000 wrote: »

Oh ok, I didn't realise that, only reason I was leaning towards the brewing sugar was because of the cost and people on youtube etc using it. That LME on Home Brew West looks good, so I take it you just use, for example the Stout kit, and 1kg of the LME in place of brewing sugar? rather than the full 1.5kg LME.

The amount of bad advice on the 'tube is unbelievable. Basically people reading kit instructions into a camera.

DME/LME is way more expensive than sugar. But look at it from the point of view of cost/per bottle, not absolute cost. TBH, I would add in the whole 1.5 kg can. The beer will be a bit stronger, but you cant store that extract anyway.

On its own, if you boiled some LME in a stockpot with some hops, and chucked it into a fermenter, then topped up to 20L with water and the rest of the malt, and fermented, you would end up with a basic ale, and it would be very drinkable. I have made decent beers that are just some kind of malt extract mixed up with something to bitter it.

*Malt* tastes lovely when it is fermented into beers. Sugar tastes of nothing when it is fermented. When you use a brew enhancer (usually 50% DME, 50% dextrose), you are making the decision to remove flavour from the beer, as well as body, which upsets the balance in the beer.

For 4-6€ that can make the difference between a decent beer, and something you want to pawn off on other people to finish it off.

Do ya reckon its possible to clean the tap prior to connecting the tube, like putting sterilizer in a spray bottle and spraying it up the tap? or would you just stick to mouth syphoning as a rule?

*I* stick to siphoning as a rule, but I believe it may be possible to sanitise the tap, using the means that you suggest, especially if you dont keep the tap pointed down. I wouldn't rule it out.

sharingan

Jacob Poor Rifleman wrote: »

After Sharingen's last post I went to clean my tap.

Now I don't know if this is adequate enough for bottling though....

The tap is a *potential* source of infection.

I stopped using it for bottling on advice from others, but I bottled several times, quite successfully straight from the tap.

Bottling by its nature will flush a lot of the potential nasties, and fully fermented beer is very robust against infection when there is no O2. Worst case scenario, one or two bottles might be a gusher, but you wont lose the whole batch.