Finally the Irish Justice system has gotten something right.

Pat Mustard

zenno wrote: »

He didn't break any law whatsoever. What law did he break, what crime did he unjustly do ? As was said by the Judge "again".....

Judge Colm Mac Eochaidh refused the request for an arrest warrant on the grounds that no information had been given by the US authorities about where the alleged offences took place.

The ruling also stated that the decision was taken because the US failed to show where the theft of government property took place or what had been stolen.

You are technically correct, of course.

Innocent until proved guilty and all that.

But do you really believe that he has not broken US law in this case?

Honest Injuns now, Zenno.

zenno

The Mustard wrote: »

You are technically correct, of course.

Innocent until proved guilty and all that.

But do you really believe that he has not broken US law in this case?

Honest Injuns now, Zenno.

To answer the question forwarded... I will agree to say, he broke an oath with the national security agency as part of the united states government, but he did not break any law regarding informing his country folk of the threat that affects them.

Pat Mustard

zenno wrote: »

To answer the question forwarded... I will agree to say, he broke an oath with the national security agency as part of the united states government, but he did not break any law regarding informing his country folk of the threat that affects them.

It seems that the US authorities disagree with you:

The criminal complaint against Snowden that was released cited 18 U.S.C. 641 Theft of Government Property, 18 U.S.C. 793(d) Unauthorized Communication of National Defense Information, and 18 U.S.C. 798(a)(3) Willful Communication of Classified Intelligence Information to an Unauthorized Person; the two latter charges fall under the Espionage Act for “giving national defenseinformation to someone without a security clearance and revealing classified information about communications intelligence,”

zenno

The Mustard wrote: »

It seems that the US authorities disagree with you:

18 U.S.C. 798(a)(3) Willful Communication of Classified Intelligence Information to an Unauthorized Person

And the unauthorised person/persons is it's own citizens. Look all i'm saying is that snowden informed his people to the fact that their private information is being used without a data protection act in place to protect them and allow them some decent privacy.

It's wrong for a dodgy government to spy on it's own citizens and the rest of the world in a paranoid manner. I'm just glad he exposed his dodgy damaged government/government run agency to it's citizens.

My opinion only.

The citizens come first, the government comes second as they are servants to the citizens, supposed to be anyway.

Pat Mustard

zenno wrote: »

And the unauthorised person/persons is it's own citizens. Look all i'm saying is that snowden informed his people to the fact that their private information is being used without a data protection act in place to protect them and allow them some decent privacy.

He didn't just inform his fellow Americans. The information has been released to everybody, to include the Chinese, the Russians, and the North Koreans. That is fairly undesirable from a US standpoint.

Snowden has recently been in Chinese-owned Hong Kong, before he flew to Moscow.

zenno wrote: »

It's wrong for a dodgy government to spy on it's own citizens and the rest of the world in a paranoid manner. I'm just glad he exposed his dodgy damaged government/government run agency to it's citizens.

My opinion only.

Good point, well made.

The citizens come first, the government comes second as they are servants to the citizens, supposed to be anyway.

Yes, but I don't think that any government can carry out an effective national defence programme if it tolerates intelligence leaks of this nature.

I will not try to argue that the USA was right in this, because it was not. But I still say that Snowden was also wrong.

clairefontaine

THe NSA is breaking the highest law, the Constution. The espionage acts are what is breaking the law.

High time they actually came out and said what law Snowden has broken. Probably a secret law, made by a secret court, the FISA court. Don't you love mysterious legislation?

WilyCoyote

Purely hypothetical at the moment.

DEFTLEFTHAND

If the guy came here the US would just fly a jet in and pick him up. We're a small country with no power or influence and they'd walk on us. Remember the Irish/American vote has become the white middle/working class, Paul Ryan (Rep VP Can) didn't even bother with it in the last election. It's completely diluted at this stage.

They humour us to an extent but they'd fcuk us over in a heartbeat if we did anything to their disliking.

just_be_nice

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

If the guy came here the US would just fly a jet in and pick him up. We're a small country with no power or influence and they'd walk on us. Remember the Irish/American vote has become the white middle/working class, Paul Ryan (Rep VP Can) didn't even bother with it in the last election. It's completely diluted at this stage.

They humour us to an extent but they'd fcuk us over in a heartbeat if we did anything to their disliking.

Ireland is still part of Europe so it's very unlikely that they would walk into a European country and take someone out without permission.

They have already annoyed a lot of people and they gotta tread carefully for while.

Snowdon's Dad made possibly one of the most ludicrous statements I have ever heard in my life! (way back on June 17 while jr was still in Hong Kong)

You know, I would rather my son be a prisoner in the U.S. than a free man in a country that did not have ... the freedoms that are protected" in the U.S., he said.

FOX

clairefontaine

The Mustard wrote: »

He didn't just inform his fellow Americans. The information has been released to everybody, to include the Chinese, the Russians, and the North Koreans. That is fairly undesirable from a US standpoint.

Snowden has recently been in Chinese-owned Hong Kong, before he flew to Moscow.


Good point, well made.


Yes, but I don't think that any government can carry out an effective national defence programme if it tolerates intelligence leaks of this nature.

I will not try to argue that the USA was right in this, because it was not. But I still say that Snowden was also wrong.

The problem is people are losing belief in this national defence programme, because it's turning on its own people, in effect making enemies out of its own citizens.

Sure, the jihadist, etc, but they have already won, if our own government is turning towards fascism on its own people.

This is not a national defence program, this is contempt for your citizens.

Ash.J.Williams

It should also be mentioned that all this sensitive data, and powers to spy on people are not bestowed on an elite professional force, they are humans like us, in the same way our money is managed by the guys on the anglo tapes...behind the cia firewall besides serious security are a bunch of twats having a laugh spying on regular joes...
As i said earlier....poor oul snowden...he's f**ed...and i feel bad for him, and i hope it's not Ireland that shops him.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Old and grey wrote: »

If the US refuse to deport Drumm and Dunne back here then we should grant Snowden asylum, after all they are harbouring two of our biggest crooks!

We could do a trade. Like swapping premier league stickers.

crazy cabbage

crazy cabbage wrote: »

I would hope that we give him asylum if he does land here. Just because America is a big country doesn't mean that we can't stand up for what we believe is right.


Lets be clear. Obama passes a Whistleblower Protection Bill. I mean wtf????

That Cnut turned out to be Bush on Steroids.

Ash.J.Williams

Obama is a complete puppet, he doesn't even try to hide it at all! He seemed genuine before the first election but it's as if he was brainwashed the second he got elected.
At worst Ireland should stay far away from this one...at best we should protect Snowden.

Amirani

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

If the guy came here the US would just fly a jet in and pick him up. We're a small country with no power or influence and they'd walk on us.

There's zero chance of that happening. EU wouldn't stand for it. Whatever about the US not wanting to start trouble with the Chinese or Russians, trouble with the EU would be a far worse scenario for them.

Riddle101

NiallSparky wrote: »

There's zero chance of that happening. EU wouldn't stand for it. Whatever about the US not wanting to start trouble with the Chinese or Russians, trouble with the EU would be a far worse scenario for them.

Are you kidding me? You really think the EU is going to stand up for us? At the end of the day, the US has more power and influence in the western world then we do. You saw what Austria did. the EU seems to be on the same level, nobody wants to p*ss off the US by granting this guy asylum. So if Ireland did grant him asylum, we'd be in a sh*tstorm of political turmoil from both the US and EU.

Carlos Orange

NiallSparky wrote: »

There's zero chance of that happening. EU wouldn't stand for it. Whatever about the US not wanting to start trouble with the Chinese or Russians, trouble with the EU would be a far worse scenario for them.

Members of the CIA were convicted for kidnapping people in Italy.
Like most criminals it is safe to assume they did it more than once.

clairefontaine

He has accepted asylum from Venezuela.

http://rt.com/news/snowden-venezuela-asylum-request-844/

Ash.J.Williams

how the hell does one get from Russia to Venezuela

onemorechance

I think the only flight from Moscow is via Cuba. Problem is, it flies over European airspace.

darkhorse

The Mustard wrote: »

1) I can accept that what he did was for what he regarded as the greater good of mankind.

2) They are there to defend their country.

1) The first sentence of your above post is bang on, no argument.

2) Why would they perceive that there is a threat from the EU Parliament?

Pat Mustard

darkhorse wrote: »

2) Why would they perceive that there is a threat from the EU Parliament?

I'm not aware that bugging EU Parliament buildings was motivated by perceived threat, if that's what you mean.

darkhorse

The Mustard wrote: »

I'm not aware that bugging EU Parliament buildings was motivated by perceived threat, if that's what you mean.

Agreed, so why bug them?

Pat Mustard

darkhorse wrote: »

Agreed, so why bug them?

I don't have the answer to that question.