new rules on the way boys and girls

SpaceTime

I've encountered a few really crazy jobs done by people chancing their arm.

I remember a kitchen installer who connected or whole new kitchen to a single over fused DZ fuse which was roaring hot to the extent that you'd burn your hand in the fuse carrier.

I also discovered a 30 year old tv distribution amp permanently wired to a lighting circuit under the insulation.

I get problems from time to time with dangerously wired heating systems and it can come as a surprise to the electrician that it's gas regs he/she risks getting prosecuted under.

Bruthal

gary71 wrote: »

Having misread your reply I responded incorrectly I tried to save myself but it didn't work out.

To clarify from my own experiences I don't see how a qualified sparks has anything to fear carrying out any kind of electrical works in a competent manor.

Perhaps you also misread the original post

As for "fruitloops" it's a term of indearment I get to use a lot as someone who repairs mistakes made on gas boilers and heating wiring for a living.

When I am involved after others "mistakes" terms of endearment are not often in mind I must admit.

SpaceTime

I got a really bad shock when setting up an old time clock when I was in my teens.

The central heating contractor hadn't bothered to connect the earth and the live was contacting the casing.

I was lucky but it left me shaking for hours!

Bruthal

Bruthal wrote: »

Perhaps you also misread the original post

I was to busy looking at the traffic going the other way.

Having read the first post properly I would have to say it seems absolutely pointless.

Bruthal

gary71 wrote: »

I was to busy looking at the traffic going the other way.

Doom

I was asked to look at a neighbours shower, he thought it was knackered and might need a new one, it turned out to be burnt out terminations in the pull cord switch from the wire connections been loose, could have burnt the house down.
We live in an estate all build by same builder, so checked my own shower...loose connections too.
Registered Electricians will make the country safer....ha ha...sure, just like a banking regulators making banking better for all, welcome to the Banana Republic of Ireland.

SpaceTime

No guarantee they weren't done by some chancer on a building site either!

kieran24883

I assume these new rules will exclude the employee/employees of a registered electrical contractor

nucker

kieran24883 wrote: »

I assume these new rules will exclude the employee/employees of a registered electrical contractor

I'm sure they will

SpaceTime

They need to crack down a lot harder on dodgy non compliant and counterfeit wiring devices too.

Although that needs to be done across the entire EU and between the UK, Ireland, Malta and Cyprus for BS type switches, sockets, plugs etc

2011

More about it here:

Statutory Instrument to regulate electrical industry.
The Minister for Energy Pat Rabbitte has at last moved to introduce the Statutory Instrument which will make it unlawful for non registered persons to carry out major electrical works on a domestic installation. Major works are defined as works requiring alterations or additions to the distribution board. Once passed it will be an offence for any person other than a Registered Electrical Contractor to carry out such works. A person who is guilty of the new offence will be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding €15,000 or a term of imprisonment not exceeding 3 years or to both, or on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding €5,000 or a term of imprisonment not exceeding 6 months or to both. NECI understand that the CER (Commission for energy regulation) will introduce an advertising campaign to educate the general public of the new offences once the Statutory Instrument has been introduced. This public awareness should result in an increase in work for registered electrical contractors.

While the above is to be welcomed, it is difficult to understand why the new offences only apply for domestic installations. It is also difficult to understand why the restrictions do not apply to the entire scope of electrical works. Incredibly it will not an offence for unqualified and untrained persons to carry out works on Commercial and Industrial electrical installations of any size. NECI will continue to lobby the CER to introduce the new rules across the entire range of electrical works.

From what I was told recently this will be extended to all electrical installations in time including commercial, industrial and potentially explosive atmospheres (ATEX). They started with domestic as this is where most of the nixers and poor quality work is found.

chrismon

Must start doing industrial nixers lol.
They should either restrict everything or nothing.

2011

chrismon wrote: »

Must start doing industrial nixers lol.
They should either restrict everything or nothing.

It is a process. Believe me they will restrict everything.
Let's be honest, there are not many industrial nixers on offer

YuM

Does this mean that NI Electricians or the Brother in law whose been a spark in England for the last 15 years can't do a new run for me now? Or is any EU registered electrician ok?

hufpc8w3adnk65

Good too see them trying too regulate the work!

2011

YuM wrote: »

Does this mean that NI Electricians or the Brother in law whose been a spark in England for the last 15 years can't do a new run for me now? Or is any EU registered electrician ok?

Of course they can once they register and become familiar with our regulations.

Unfortunately we have lots of "experts" that have all sorts of "experience" carrying out work to a very poor and frequently dangerous standard.

This is an attempt to solve that and increase tax revenue.

Many say that some registered electrical contractors cut corners themselves. I have said it myself, but I would guess that the main offenders are the people doing nixers, the unqualified and electricians trained in other countries that are unfamiliar with our regulations.

This would be typical of the type of problem that we see all too often from unregistered electricians.

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

Of course they can once they register and become familiar with our regulations.

Unfortunately we have lots of "experts" that have all sorts of "experience" carrying out work to a very poor and frequently dangerous standard.

This is an attempt to solve that and increase tax revenue.

Many say that some registered electrical contractors cut corners themselves. I have said it myself, but I would guess that the main offenders are the people doing nixers, the unqualified and electricians trained in other countries that are unfamiliar with our regulations.

This would be typical of the type of problem that we see all too often from unregistered electricians.

I think that bit is the only factor of concern to them. How many are killed each year in homes due to bad electrics? Its probably not even 1 a year. If saving lives was priority, there are other areas with far more casualties where efforts could be focused.

But they would cost money rather than netting more, something like a go safe van monitoring a dual carriageway that has a 40kph limit, a safe stretch off road, but with a silly limit ideal for revenue generation.

mikehammer67

might keep the plumbers away from connecting the electric showers anyway

i've seen various bodges over the years at the DB

Bruthal

Well I remember the registered contractor effort I fixed next door which I described in detail here before. So the rules didn't stop them leaving a live earth brought about by a plasterboard nail without properly fixing it. And they obviously knew about it shown by their quick shortcut fix, but probably only the actual site sparks did know, not main contractor himself.

Now if the penalty for an electrician to replace an mcb is years in prison, what for the above? Guillotine perhaps?

2011

Bruthal wrote: »

Now if the penalty for an electrician to replace an mcb is years in prison, what for the above? Guillotine perhaps?

Why not ?
It would certainly save the tax payer a fortune.

mikehammer67

being registered doesn't make one a better sparkie necessarily ,but no denying..

certificate
calibrated test meters
insurance
has copy of rules and upskilled on testing and certification etc.
complaint procedure in place for customer



no denying there's loads of dodgy stuff goes on when the inspectors not looking
and of course the registered guys do a percentage of their work 'off the books'

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

Why not ?
It would certainly save the tax payer a fortune.

Plenty of fixes of registered contractors efforts, as well as non registered ones, would have any competent person metaphorically ending up like a guillotine victim.

mikehammer67

an issue with the non registered guys is they can't generally issue certs easily for works

where esb networks should be involved

so they often leave some sort of bodge at fuseboards when re-wiring etc.

2011

We all know that if the primary concern was safety (rather than increasing the amount of tax collected) self certification would be banned.

mikehammer67

2011 wrote: »

We all know that if the primary concern was safety (rather than increasing the amount of tax collected) self certification would be banned.

true that........

2011

mikehammer67 wrote: »

an issue with the non registered guys is they can't generally issue certs easily for works

They can't legally issue a completion certificate under any circumstances anymore.

Bruthal

mikehammer67 wrote: »

being registered doesn't make one a better sparkie necessarily ,but no denying..

certificate
calibrated test meters
insurance
has copy of rules and upskilled on testing and certification etc.
complaint procedure in place for customer



no denying there's loads of dodgy stuff goes on when the inspectors not looking
and of course the registered guys do a percentage of their work 'off the books'

Yea the contractor might be brilliant, however, the on site fella might be less so. Insurance etc is a hindsight thing. It won't prevent the on site cowboy work being unsafe.

A house a day is a real registered contractor/builder thing. And that in my opinion is/was the priority. Lash it in, plaster over it, sockets up straight-ish, write your results, and there you go, a nice registered contractor installation.

mikehammer67

there was an ex reci inspector posting here in the past

if i recall he packed it in 'cos he didn't agree with the system

mikehammer67

2011 wrote: »

They can't legally issue a completion certificate under any circumstances anymore.

is that gone now with ecssa then?