new rules on the way boys and girls

2011

mikehammer67 wrote: »

is that gone now with ecssa then?

Yes, not possible with the ECSSA or RECI anymore.

mikehammer67

2011 wrote: »

Yes, not possible with the ECSSA or RECI anymore.

ouch !

mikehammer67

so the non-registered guy can't price any new installations or re-wires now

ah well

2011

mikehammer67 wrote: »

so the non-registered guy can't price any new installations or re-wires now

Correct.

To quote the minister directly:

In essence, it will mean that any works relating to the distribution board (or fuse board) in a domestic setting, will have to be carried out by a Registered Electrical Contractor

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

Correct. To quote the minister directly:

Yes, fair play to him thinking of the zero people killed a year by these dodgy fuseboards fitted exclusively by non registered people.

mikehammer67

2011 wrote: »

Correct.

To quote the minister directly:

ya
what am i on about?

of course this new regulation means you can't work on the board

Bruthal

mikehammer67 wrote: »

ya
what am i on about?

of course this new regulation means you can't work on the board

I have to go driving now, what's the penalty for going too fast, in a device where 3 or 4 hundred are killed a year. 2 penalty points is it? Or perhaps I have no licence or insurance to drive at all? Yes, I think I might chance the odd MCB here and there.

mikehammer67

you'd think the insurance companies would be on top of this

if it was so serious alright


do they look for inspection reports or anything?

i know loads of people with insane wiring and old installations.......they just leave it forever and won't spend a penny

i assume most of them still have house insurance

mikehammer67

do the insurance co's have a getout if you don't 'maintain' the electrics

i know they can throw out claims if it's a maintenance issue

they're no fools like.......

hufpc8w3adnk65

mikehammer67 wrote: »

do the insurance co's have a getout if you don't 'maintain' the electrics

i know they can throw out claims if it's a maintenance issue

they're no fools like.......

I know 2 family's who had issues gettin paid out on there house insurance because they had not upgraded too a neutralized installation in their homes

mikehammer67

MrMac84 wrote: »

I know 2 family's who had issues gettin paid out on there house insurance because they had not upgraded too a neutralized installation in their homes

yes what were the claims related to

most of the non-neutralized domestic installations i've seen seemed to be older

and they were bodged with no means of automatic disconnection as they didn't have rcd on all circuits or none at all

mikehammer67

all the non-registered guys will be looking over their shoulder now if they're buying an mcb at the trade counter

in case the registered guy reports him and he gets arrested huh!.......

seaniefr

It's a pity there is no joined up thinking shown here by the CER & Other interested parties i.e. if they had a relatively cheap registration process so that one registration would enable a qualified electrician to install alarms, cameras and undertake regular domestic & commercial work and maybe a reduction of te amount due depending on turnover so that EVERYONE could register so they would still get their tax take except now they would have a proper register of every electrician carrying out soon to be restricted works in Ireland.

mikehammer67

why would it be a good idea to have alarm and electrical in one organization then?

2011

seaniefr wrote: »

It's a pity there is no joined up thinking shown here by the CER & Other interested parties i.e. if they had a relatively cheap registration process so that one registration would enable a qualified electrician to install alarms, cameras and undertake regular domestic & commercial work and maybe a reduction of te amount due depending on turnover so that EVERYONE could register so they would still get their tax take except now they would have a proper register of every electrician carrying out soon to be restricted works in Ireland.

It would be much easier to insist on 3rd party certification. That way the cowboys would go out of business and everyone would be quoting for work that would have to be completed to meet the requirements of the regulations. This would genuinely address our minister's "safety concerns".

seaniefr

mikehammer67 wrote: »

why would it be a good idea to have alarm and electrical in one organization then?

Why not? It's still electrical work is it not?

seaniefr

2011 wrote: »

It would be much easier to insist on 3rd party certification. That way the cowboys would go out of business and everyone would be quoting for work that would have to be completed to meet the requirements of the regulations. This would genuinely address our minister's "safety concerns".

Ate you referring to the SSB certification?

mikehammer67

i think in america


they have an inspection after the fist fix

and another inspection after the 2nd fix

if i recall correctly

goes without saying there's corners cut when the inspectors away

human nature and the evidence is there with all the shoddy work

mikehammer67

seaniefr wrote: »

Why not? It's still electrical work is it not?

don't think there's much crossover now really?

2011

mikehammer67 wrote: »

why would it be a good idea to have alarm and electrical in one organization then?

Well you already have electrical contractors doing alarm work and alarm installers doing electrical work. The lines between both can become very blurred.
At present to do this you need to be a member of more than one organisation to do this. In my opinion it would be far more cost effective to have one overall organisation that caters for both.

seaniefr

mikehammer67 wrote: »

i think in america


they have an inspection after the fist fix

and another inspection after the 2nd fix

if i recall correctly

goes without saying there's corners cut when the inspectors away

human nature and the evidence is there with all the shoddy work

I would be all for a system like that it would really level the playing field. RECI & ECSSA are just paying lip service to te industry as there are way too few of them.

2011

mikehammer67 wrote: »

don't think there's much crossover now really?

Yes there is.
CCTV, electric gates, intercoms, security lighting and access control are often carried out by alarm installers.

2011

seaniefr wrote: »

Ate you referring to the SSB certification?

I am suggesting that it would be better if all certification was carried out by a completely independent body. They would only issue a certificate if the installation met all of the requirements of ET101. We could then give up the pretence that RECI inspectors are genuinely impartial and that all registered electrical contractors are complying fully with the regulations.

mikehammer67

it would be fairer if any competent person can complete a new installation

and all work is inspected and passed independently


the trouble with the reci system i worked in (for about 16 yrs) is that you could basically do what you like when the inspectors away

the only concern was a complaint going in to reci really........

they may have tightened up recently

2011

mikehammer67 wrote: »

it would be fairer if any competent person can complete a new installation

I disagree. I feel that at the very least it should be supervised by a qualified electrician.

and all work is inspected and passed independently

Agreed.

the trouble with the reci system i worked in (for about 16 yrs) is that you could basically do what you like when the inspectors away

.....and during the Celtic Tiger years they went nuts.

the only concern was a complaint going in to reci really.......

they may have tightened up recently

In my opinion (from my recent experience) is that they do all that they can to side with the electrical contractor to protect their members (who ultimately pay their wages).

seaniefr

It really is mysterious that a lot of these points were made when the CER published these proposals for discussion and one of the main points that kept coming up was why they did not include all aspects of electrical installations in this particularly electrical installations in hazardous areas. Does any one remember The Buncefield incident in the Uk a few years back?

http://www.hse.gov.uk/comah/buncefield/buncefield-report.pdf

An incident that could potentially wipe out a small town if it happened over here and they haven't seen fit to include it in restricted electrical works........😱

2011

seaniefr wrote: »

It really is mysterious that a lot of these points were made when the CER published these proposals for discussion and one of the main points that kept coming up was why they did not include all aspects of electrical installations in this particularly electrical installations in hazardous areas. Does any one remember The Buncefield incident in the Uk a few years back?

http://www.hse.gov.uk/comah/buncefield/buncefield-report.pdf

An incident that could potentially wipe out a small town if it happened over here and they haven't seen fit to include it in restricted electrical works........😱

The report states that this was due to a "failure of design and maintenance in both overfill protection systems and liquid containment systems were the technical causes of the initial explosion and the seepage of pollutants to the environment in its aftermath." It was not a failure on the part of instrumentation crafts people or electricians. So it is not a fair comparison.

At the moment it is not permitted for electricians or instrumentation crafts people to work in hazardous explosive areas without specific ATEX training. This applies to both installation or maintenance work.

In fact on the project that I am working on we have taken it a few steps further, no apprentices are permitted, all E & I crafts have to have completed an approved 2 to 4 day ATEX training course within the last 2 years, and they must all complete a 1 hour course on installing Hawke glands the day that they start on the project.

seaniefr

2011 wrote: »

The report states that this was due to a "failure of design and maintenance in both overfill protection systems and liquid containment systems were the technical causes of the initial explosion and the seepage of pollutants to the environment in its aftermath." It was not a failure on the part of instrumentation crafts people or electricians. So it is not a fair comparison.

At the moment it is not permitted for electricians or instrumentation crafts people to work in hazardous explosive areas without specific ATEX training. This applies to both installation or maintenance work.

In fact on the project that I am working on we have taken it a few steps further, no apprentices are permitted, all E & I crafts have to have completed an approved 2 to 4 day ATEX training course within the last 2 years, and they must all complete a 1 hour course on installing Hawke glands the day that they start on the project.

You should read the full report it was the incorrect installation & commissioning of the high level control Switch and the failure of the primary level detection system that caused it so the report is relevant in this case.

ATEX is a european equipment standard for electrical equipment operating in hazardous areas it has nothing to do with hazardous area training. It's all back to the 'competent person' thing but there is nothing there in irish legislation to define exactly what training is required..........technically all u need to be is a member of an SSB! Mad!

mikehammer67

2011 wrote: »

I disagree. I feel that at the very least it should be supervised by a qualified electrician.

i was just being democratic


a lot of people claim to be competent in electrical work

non-qualified people etc.


i don't believe it myself but....lets see:)

2011

mikehammer67 wrote: »

i was just being democratic

I assume you mean diplomatic ?

My daughter (10 yo) is delighted, says you are dead right and wants to start straight away :D