new rules on the way boys and girls

mikehammer67

i suppose there's varying sizes of new installations

i don't think it would end well for any have-a-go types as the rules covering domestic work are quite tricky


but i don't have a problem with them being in the mix too if work is being independently checked


many's the person that told me they could do it no problem.......

2011

mikehammer67 wrote: »

many's the person that told me they could do it no problem.......

Indeed, isn't that the problem though?
As they say, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

seaniefr

mikehammer67 wrote: »

i suppose there's varying sizes of new installations

i don't think it would end well for any have-a-go types as the rules covering domestic work are quite tricky


but i don't have a problem with them being in the mix too if work is being independently checked


many's the person that told me they could do it no problem.......

You would need to have a couple of those jailed
Although I suppose you could say the same about the bankers ......

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

Indeed, isn't that the problem though?
As they say, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Not much knowledge is needed to be registered.

2011

Bruthal wrote: »

Not much knowledge is needed to be registered.

True, but some knowledge is required because in order to be registered the applicant must be a qualified electrician. Now you can argue around in circles about the amount of knowledge that a time served electrician may or may not have but I would feel that after 4 years of training even the worst electrician would have picked up something, the average electrician would have learnt quite a bit and the cream learn a hugh amount (and have been known to carry on learning and collecting qualifications).

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

True, but some knowledge is required because in order to be registered the applicant must be a qualified electrician. .

If a qualified electrician changed an MCB and was prosecuted, it would be easy to show they are qualified, there for being registered as a method to show being qualified can be crossed out on either side of the equation to simplify toward the real answer, which is revenue.

Its interesting how a person can drive dangerously, speed etc, items that do cost many lives, yet the absolute simplest electrical work carries stiffer penalties. If they took every road rule breaker off the roads, imagine the lives that would be saved, but the revenue that would be lost.

2011

Personally I would prefer a qualified electrician to work on a distribution board than someone that is not a qualified electrician. This is why I think it is good that to be a registered electrical contractor you must be a qualified electrician.

Some may suggest that the restricted works statuary instrument is being brought in primarily to generate more revenue for the government to fund their excessive pensions rather than to make the world a better place, and I tend to agree. However that still does not change my personal view that electricians are the only ones that should be doing hands on electrical work regardless of any comparisons made to driving offences

I know and work with talented electrical engineers but I would not trust them to put a plug on! Horses for courses and all that

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

Personally I would prefer a qualified electrician to work on a distribution board than someone that is not a qualified electrician. This is why I think it is good that to be a registered electrical contractor you must be a qualified electrician.

Irrelevant really, as I never said otherwise.

Some may suggest that the restricted works statuary instrument is being brought in primarily to generate more revenue for the government to fund their excessive pensions rather than to make the world a better place, and I tend to agree. However that still does not change my personal view that electricians are the only ones that should be doing hands on electrical work regardless of any comparisons made to driving offences

The comparisons made are in sentencing. How many are killed in domestic electrical accidents per year, and how many will this save?

I know and work with talented electrical engineers but I would not trust them to put a plug on! Horses for courses and all that

The same horse can run on a different course now by registering, and he can also get a donkey to do his work for him, even if he is a lame one, yet all is fine.

Jobs for the boys.

2011

Correct me if i am wrong, but would seem that you are agreeing with me.

Bruthal

Well I have been saying it a long time.

But anyway, those that agree with this, likely benefit from it.but when things go bad, and they are no longer registered, will they hire a registered electrician to swap a lighting MCB in their board.

Boards answer .... Of course.

Real life answer..... Not a chance.

Hitchens

RECI - a joke
HOMEBOND - a bigger joke
RABBITTE - the biggest joke of all

2011

Bruthal wrote: »

Well I have been saying it a long time.

But anyway, those that agree with this, likely benefit from it.

Naturally the government will agree with the new SI as they hope to collect more tax and electrical contractors agree as they may see a reduction in nixers.

Those that will be pursued through the courts are most likely the ones that are responsible for a building burning down or worse. Mind you they can expect to be prosecuted even if they are registered for something like that.

Most likley it will make no difference to the rest of us, business as usual.

but when things go bad, and they are no longer registered, will they hire a registered electrician to swap a lighting MCB in their board.

I assume that most electricians will do what they did with thier own property regardless of being registered or not.

Boards answer .... Of course.

Real life answer..... Not a chance.

I have seen nothing on Boards to suggest that nixers have ceased or that people
will suddenly only use registered electrical contractors, quite the opposite in fact.

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

I have seen nothing on Boards to suggest that nixers have ceased or that people
will suddenly only use registered electrical contractors, quite the opposite in fact.

Boards answer .... Of course.

Real life answer..... Not a chance.

Some here agree with it, while likely would still do a 'nixer' when the requirement arises. Thats what that refers to, not the cessation of nixers.

.G.

This is pointless legislation that will change nothing.As I said earlier and others have said,safety will be far better served by removing self certification and having it as an independent.Under this new legislation,being an employee of a REC I can do any work he asks of me under the legislation even though he and the company are registered,I am not.

Then I can go home and am no longer legally competent to do the same work in my own house.What makes me different during my 8-4 that changes when I clock off? Pointless and impossible to police.

2011

Bruthal wrote: »

Some here agree with it, while likely would still do a 'nixer' when the requirement arises. Thats what that refers to, not the cessation of nixers.

I misunderstood your point completely.
Yes, I see what you mean.
Such is life.

Dtp79

Slightly off topic but anybody know how this would effect RGI's wiring boilers and heating controls?

seaniefr

Dtp79 wrote: »

Slightly off topic but anybody know how this would effect RGI's wiring boilers and heating controls?

If they are stopping even the smallest alteration or mod to the electrical installation then i would imagine ( but am sure others will correct me) that the RGI's would have to be members of an SSB, eg, RECI or the ECSSA and all that goes with that i guess someone whoever is carrying out the electrical work will have to be a qualified electrician!

shane0007

My reading & understanding of it is it will be illegal for any non-registered person to work within the consumer unit only. Heating controls & gas boilers will not require this as everything should be wired from the spur. The only time it will affect an RGI is when the property does not have 10mm earth bonding & this will need to upgraded back to the consumer unit. This part of the installation would then, of course, be required to be carried out by an registered electrician.

What we have to also acknowledge is the CER controls both RECI & RGII. This is also the reason why electricians are an acceptable trade that is allowed to become RGI through the GIS/GID system. This was to allow electricians to become certified should they wish to wire into a gas boiler, i.e. work on a gas appliance legally.

seaniefr

shane0007 wrote: »

My reading & understanding of it is it will be illegal for any non-registered person to work within the consumer unit only. Heating controls & gas boilers will not require this as everything should be wired from the spur. The only time it will affect an RGI is when the property does not have 10mm earth bonding & this will need to upgraded back to the consumer unit. This part of the installation would then, of course, be required to be carried out by an registered electrician.

What we have to also acknowledge is the CER controls both RECI & RGII. This is also the reason why electricians are an acceptable trade that is allowed to become RGI through the GIS/GID system. This was to allow electricians to become certified should they wish to wire into a gas boiler, i.e. work on a gas appliance legally.

Seeing as you would from time to time replacing pumps, PCB's with live connections and suchlike
Do RGII members have to have any compulsory electrical training courses for carrying out electrical work on gas or oil boilers? i.e. replacing valves/solenoids or external stuff after the spur connection.

shane0007

seaniefr wrote: »

Seeing as you would from time to time replacing pumps, PCB's with live connections and suchlike
Do RGII members have to have any compulsory electrical training courses for carrying out electrical work on gas or oil boilers? i.e. replacing valves/solenoids or external stuff after the spur connection.

It depends on when they received their certification. On the old G1 & G2, they would have been no training. This old system is about to be scrapped & all G1/G2 engineers must sit a 5 year re-assessment exam. Under this, they must prove their competency under examination for their electrical assessment. Under the current GIS/GID, electrical training & assessment forms an integral part of the certification course.
ONLY RGI's can replace & test any component within any gas appliance & certify same via an issued cert. A copy of this cert is issued to the homeowner, the engineer & also to RGII.

However, the system is far from without it's flaws. I would imagine that the electrical system will be very similar. It is also a nice moneymaking racket. RGII currently has in excess of €850,000 on its bank account. Not bad for a "non-profit" organisation!

mikehammer67

they'll prob follow up with bathrooms etc.

there's a lot of rules and safety at play

liveandnetural

just out today from cer

http://www.cer.ie/GetAttachment.aspx?id=b5cdabd7-7cc9-4249-9944-018a8e78b3c6


linked of this page

http://www.cer.ie/en/electricity-safety-decision-documents.aspx?article=2935a210-11a9-4d9a-b07c-ddc29eb28d4c

mikehammer67

hmm.....say what

looks serious this

hufpc8w3adnk65

Jesus didn't expect it too be that long a read.. Will have too look tomorow

chrismon

Any one summarise it?

seaniefr

Will have a go anyway !
From the 1st oct anyone who is not a member if a safety supervisory body will be prosecuted if caught carrying out any fuse board works i.e adding or replacing circuits , protective devices in short any alterations, repairs , replacements etc to fuse boards . Existing like for like replacement of switches, sockets or relocating of light fittings is not covered under this incoming legislation. This moves the above category of electrical works described in a domestic setting from controlled works to restricted works. This also includes new domestic installations. Commercial & industrial installations in controlled works settings left unchanged. Please feel free to update or correct this all

evosteo

what an absolute ****ing joke this is, you can be an electrician during the day wiring and terminated major sub distribution boards on a major project but if im asked by a friend or a friend of a friend to install a shower for example im essentially breaking the law and face fines and possible imprisonment if a guard gets wind of it.

JOBS FOR THE F*CKING BOYOS OR WHAT:mad:

Steve

evosteo wrote: »

what an absolute ****ing joke this is, you can be an electrician during the day wiring and terminated major sub distribution boards on a major project but if im asked by a friend or a friend of a friend to install a shower for example im essentially breaking the law and face fines and possible imprisonment if a guard gets wind of it.

JOBS FOR THE F*CKING BOYOS OR WHAT:mad:

Same boat.

I'm designing / wiring / installing electrical systems that affect hundreds of people in their workplace on a daily basis but woe betide me if I have to replace an MCB in my own house.

Beggars belief.

Bruthal

Steve wrote: »

Same boat.

I'm designing / wiring / installing electrical systems that affect hundreds of people in their workplace on a daily basis but woe betide me if I have to replace an MCB in my own house.

Beggars belief.

Yea, sure the registered contractor who is now elevated to the grand level of MCB fitting simply by registering, wont be on the sites doing the MCB fitting, but his journeyman sparks will be.

Its simply revenue based. Only the simple minded will truly believe this is safety based.

Bruthal

evosteo wrote: »

what an absolute ****ing joke this is, you can be an electrician during the day wiring and terminated major sub distribution boards on a major project but if im asked by a friend or a friend of a friend to install a shower for example im essentially breaking the law and face fines and possible imprisonment if a guard gets wind of it.

JOBS FOR THE F*CKING BOYOS OR WHAT:mad:

Yes