Transparency on reported posts

bumper234

MadsL wrote: »

...and we are done here.

end of debate?:(

Tom Dunne

Ok ladies, put the handbags away, fix your makeup and get back on topic.

MadsL

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Ok ladies, put the handbags away, fix your makeup and get back on topic.

...sexist.

Reported :P

In all seriousness though, the previous thread highlights that the reporting system catches a few posts but a certain number of posts reported seem to get no action.

In AH you can insult posters, be racist, offensively unfunny and you have (at a guess) about a 35-40% chance of getting away with it.

It would seem to make sense to me to have some tracking on the reporters side of things, the challenge being how to do that without A. extra mod work (hopefully reducing mod work) and B. Without huge development overheads.

Tom Dunne

MadsL wrote: »

development overheads.

But that's one of the issues - the very fact that it requires development.

Irrespective of how complex it is, or how long it takes, it still takes time. Something which is in short supply at HQ Development dept.

MadsL

Tom Dunne wrote: »

But that's one of the issues - the very fact that it requires development.

Irrespective of how complex it is, or how long it takes, it still takes time. Something which is in short supply at HQ Development dept.

I understand that. However, did I see an ad that boards.ie hired a full time graduate developer. Perhaps the short supply isn't so short anymore?

And before I get my head bitten off by someone I am not saying this is something that HAS to be done, just raising it as an option.

Taltos

See this concerns me.

On the one hand I can see the merit in your suggestion, a database could be a handy tool to have.
However on the other I can see an opportunity here for such a system to be abused, granted by a minority but abused at the same time.

Right now as a poster if one of your posts or many of your reports are reported by another it really doesn't mean all that much to you as a poster. Yes, the mods / catmods will get the alert, review the thread, review the post and make their best judgement on if action is warranted and if action is needed to what level, eg PM / on thread warning / yellow card (warning) / red card (infraction) / ban (x time) / flag to the admins for wider action. In many
cases the judgement is made that the post is either borderline or really requires no attention and so no action is taken.

Yes, some might fall through the cracks, but normally such posts get reported by multiple posters and so come back to the top of the queue.

However, if a solution that you suggest is put in place then possibly innocent posters who have been targeted by others (it happens) will get a rapidly increasing "Reported Count".
But what's the problem with that? - Well being human we tend to see patterns even where there isn't one. Can you guarantee that such a poster would not fall on the wrong side of a tired mod who thinks there might be something going on (mistakes do happen), or same poster suddenly finds themselves a target of some bullying individuals who just want to rack up their reported count? I know both are extreme, but before any time (money) is invested in a solution like the above think we need to carefully think it through, balance the merits against any possible misuse or abuse of such a system.

I know you say it would be useful for you to see that action has been taken.
However, per one of the earlier posts - seriously why do you care?
- not saying that is a bad thing, but when I and I'm not sure how many others report a post I move on, trusting (maybe innocently) that the mods will review and take action as they see fit. If they don't they don't but if they do great. But either way I'm not going to come back and check on that post again and again. Does this mean I might report the same post multiple time? I'm sure I have but not intentionally.

Just my view, while I love process, I still think that before management even consider redirecting resources to a system like this they fully explore the potential impacts to the wider community. As someone else here alluded to what is useful for one poster here can have very negative unintentional consequences on others...

nesf

There's also an issue where I look at a reported post and it's a borderline call to my eyes and decide to do nothing but one of my co-mods comes along and (for whatever reason) doesn't see it that way and thinks it requires action. Are they going to go in and change my mark in the register (can they even do this?) and then overrule me? More problematically, will they be less inclined to act if they know my view on the incident? The latter is more problematic because we'll tend to get a "first responder non-action bias" in this.

Dades

Leaving aside the development time it would take which makes this an open-and-shut case; for every individual who has a desire to see if a particular post has been actioned there's going to be a user who sees it as their role to ensure Boards mods are doing a job to their satisfaction - and would use this system constantly as a stick to wave about.

Frankly that's not something we need - we have CMods and Admins who are contactable at any time if someone needs to escalate something.

P. Breathnach

Taltos wrote: »

...
I know you say it would be useful for you to see that action has been taken.
However, per one of the earlier posts - seriously why do you care?...

I report posts when I form the opinion that the breach guidelines/charters and are bad for the forum. That's because I care for Boards.

Are you suggesting that it's okay for me to care enough to report posts, but I should not care enough to be interested in what happens?

MadsL

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I report posts when I form the opinion that the breach guidelines/charters and are bad for the forum. That's because I care for Boards.

Are you suggesting that it's okay for me to care enough to report posts, but I should not care enough to be interested in what happens?

That seems to be the line alright this 'why do you even care' attitude.

If you take most helpdesks they have customer trouble ticket numbers, so that you don't have explain everything all over again a second time. That's a given in most customer care environments.

Again, I accept there is development time involved in such as system.

Dades

MadsL wrote: »

If you take most helpdesks they have customer trouble ticket numbers, so that you don't have explain everything all over again a second time. That's a given in most customer care environments.

There's a rather obvious difference between the mod/user relationship and customer care environments, so I'm not sure this line is worth pursuing.

MadsL

Dades wrote: »

There's a rather obvious difference between the mod/user relationship and customer care environments, so I'm not sure this line is worth pursuing.

True.

But also false in the sense that boards has become a commercial business.

By this logic boards should not behave as other commercial operations do.

Dades

It's still a free service.

And while I appreciate that you are a subscriber, the vast majority of users are not and can't expect to be entitled to the same customer care you *might* get from someone who you've paid.

That said, it's not as if the current system is based on what people are entitled to, rather on what works for a community. There is a question of whether a "monitoring" system for mods' response to reported posts is fair on the volunteers here (there would be abusers of this system), but as long as the Boards developers have their hands full on more pressing tasks it will remain somewhat moot.

MadsL

Dades wrote: »

It's still a free service.

And while I appreciate that you are a subscriber, the vast majority of users are not and can't expect to be entitled to the same customer care you *might* get from someone who you've paid.

Make it available to subscribers? We don't get much.

That said, it's not as if the current system is based on what people are entitled to, rather on what works for a community. There is a question of whether a "monitoring" system for mods' response to reported posts is fair on the volunteers here (there would be abusers of this system), but as long as the Boards developers have their hands full on more pressing tasks it will remain somewhat moot.

I agree, and any abuse could be dealt with by removing access. However, if you read back I'm trying to make it easier on the mods. There are always people like me who 'follow up' (years of dealing with local authorities depts I'm afraid) and mods have to respond to PMs. Automated tracking does not involve mods at all, and would make life easier for them I would have thought.

If mods are concerned about being 'monitored' I find that a bit strange. How do you improve something if you don't measure it. If 50% of reported posts in a forum go un-actioned then surely some more mods are needed.

Insect Overlord

MadsL wrote: »

If mods are concerned about being 'monitored' I find that a bit strange. How do you improve something if you don't measure it. If 50% of reported posts in a forum go un-actioned then surely some more mods are needed.

We're already monitored by our co-mods, by the Category Mods and by the Administrators.

MadsL

Insect Overlord wrote: »

We're already monitored by our co-mods, by the Category Mods and by the Administrators.

So why would a system as I proposed by 'unfair' on mods? I'm proposing access by the great unwashed only to the posts they themselves as an individual user report. You would have no visibility by ordinary users across all reported posts.

Insect Overlord

MadsL wrote: »

So why would a system as I proposed by 'unfair' on mods? I'm proposing access by the great unwashed only to the posts they themselves as an individual user report. You would have no visibility by ordinary users across all reported posts.

It'd probably work fine for 3/4 of the forums on the site.

The big ones would be a nightmare though. After Hours, The Ladies Lounge, Soccer, Rugby, GAA, Personal Issues, Television, Radio, Health & Fitness, Conspiracy Theories, Motors, CVPL, Politics, etc would be tough enough to look after without having to reply to every report as well.

MadsL

Insect Overlord wrote: »

It'd probably work fine for 3/4 of the forums on the site.

The big ones would be a nightmare though. After Hours, The Ladies Lounge, Soccer, Rugby, GAA, Personal Issues, Television, Radio, Health & Fitness, Conspiracy Theories, Motors, CVPL, Politics, etc would be tough enough to look after without having to reply to every report as well.

I'm not proposing that mods have to reply to every report.

I'm proposing a self-service lookup, a report generates a ticket number assigned to the report and PM/emails it to the user, using that ticket number a user who reported a post can look up and see the status of the reported post.

1. Unactioned
2. Pending - and mod who 'grabbed' it for consideration.
3. Warning
4. infraction
5. No action taken

No more nagging PMs to mods and fewer mod PM responses.

Dades

MadsL wrote: »

If mods are concerned about being 'monitored' I find that a bit strange.

I'm thinking that concern would only extend to situations involving demanding users who are somewhat trigger happy with the report function for any number of reasons. They exist, you know.

MadsL wrote: »

If 50% of reported posts in a forum go un-actioned then surely some more mods are needed.

Quite a lot of posts do go unactioned because mods don't feel the need to step in. Ticking a box marked "No Action Necessary" in a monitoring system is not going to appease certain reporters, particularly the type who feel strongly enough to be following said report.

But I'd agree that more mods are needed in forums where reports of obvious wrongdoings are left unactioned. That's something to approach the CMods with, who'll be able to check out if there's a requirement for more bodies, of if someone was just on holidays etc.

nesf

MadsL wrote: »

No more nagging PMs to mods and fewer mod PM responses.

I couldn't remember the last one I got so I checked, the last time a user PM's me about a post (actually I'm not sure if they reported it or not but anyways) was last August. You're trying to solve a problem that isn't there.

bumper234

nesf wrote: »

I couldn't remember the last one I got so I checked, the last time a user PM's me about a post (actually I'm not sure if they reported it or not but anyways) was last August. You're trying to solve a problem that isn't there.

I think you are the 4th or 5th mod to say this but he still insists there should be a function available to the 0.01% or so of posters that would like to have it.

MadsL

nesf wrote: »

I couldn't remember the last one I got so I checked, the last time a user PM's me about a post (actually I'm not sure if they reported it or not but anyways) was last August. You're trying to solve a problem that isn't there.

Probably very true for a CMod for Soc and Politics is heavily modded anyway.
I'd say the heavier use Rec and particularly AH type forums would be different.

MadsL

bumper234 wrote: »

I think you are the 4th or 5th mod to say this but he still insists there should be a function available to the 0.01% or so of posters that would like to have it.

Source? :P

nesf

MadsL wrote: »

Probably very true for a CMod for Soc and Politics is heavily modded anyway.
I'd say the heavier use Rec and particularly AH type forums would be different.

You think Soc is a quiet category for a CMod???

bumper234

MadsL wrote: »

Source? :P

0.01% is a conservative number but since no other poster has jumped in saying what a great idea this is i think i may have been generous

MadsL

Dades wrote: »

I'm thinking that concern would only extend to situations involving demanding users who are somewhat trigger happy with the report function for any number of reasons. They exist, you know.

And they could be referred to a self-help system.

Quite a lot of posts do go unactioned because mods don't feel the need to step in. Ticking a box marked "No Action Necessary" in a monitoring system is not going to appease certain reporters, particularly the type who feel strongly enough to be following said report.

It would prevent follow up PMs the 'have you looked at this yet?' ones.

But I'd agree that more mods are needed in forums where reports of obvious wrongdoings are left unactioned. That's something to approach the CMods with, who'll be able to check out if there's a requirement for more bodies, of if someone was just on holidays etc.

But how do you raise it as an issue if it isn't tracked in some way? It becomes perception rather than fact.

MadsL

bumper234 wrote: »

0.01% is a conservative number but since no other poster has jumped in saying what a great idea this is i think i may have been generous

Not many people read feedback. Maybe (pulls figure from air) 0.01% of all users.

But, I'm having a discussion with the mods here about it, you have made your view clear that you are opposed to the idea, no need to keep criticising me for having my view on it.

MadsL

nesf wrote: »

You think Soc is a quiet category for a CMod???

I have no idea. I'm not a CMod. Rec seems to have more muppets. Am I wrong?

whiteandlight

I'll make it short and sweet. Im a volunteer, bring this in and I wont do it anymore. I have enough paperwork forced on me in my job already never mind having to tick the box here as well when working in a completely voluntary capacity

MadsL

Musicmental85 wrote: »

I'll make it short and sweet. Im a volunteer, bring this in and I wont do it anymore. I have enough paperwork forced on me in my job already never mind having to tick the box here as well when working in a completely voluntary capacity

Firstly, thanks for modding.

Let me be clear again - I'm not talking about following up every reported post with a PM to the reporter. I'm suggesting just pushing a button if you decide not action a reported post, hardly paperwork.