The Winds of Winter (Book 6 Discussion) **SPOILERS for all books & future books**

spiralism

Mickeroo wrote: »

Personally think that's one of the reason the show is better overall.

Maybe, they do leave a good amount of gloss out which is better for TV. That said there's certain plot elements im very surprised at the lack of (Ironborn in particular)

A Neurotic

Thargor wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jan/30/george-rr-martin-the-winds-of-winter-publication

Nothing will be published in 2015 apart from more illustrated crap. Sigh.

Jesus Christ thank you. Was getting sick of clicking hopefully into this thread every time it updated, just to read more inane discussion and arguments about the first book.

Now I can just put it out of my mind for a year.

hidinginthebush

Mickeroo wrote: »

Personally think that's one of the reason the show is better overall.

But it's the depth of the story that makes this series so much better from the others I've read, and the show just takes a lot of that out, so all that remains that keeps the show unique is the setting and the fact that no hero is safe (well that, and the signature HBO constant nudity).

There are also numerous other bug bears I have with the show. First that pops to mind and made me lose a lot of faith early on is Catlyn releasing Jamie. In the books, she thinks Bran and Rik are dead, so trades Jamie for the girls in a bid to at least save some of her children. In the show she just lets him go, then finds out later that Bran and Rik are "dead". Lazy. Would have cost them nothing extra to do it as it played out in the book, and give Cat motivations for releasing the kingslayer.

And to have that sort of lazy thought process in control of revealing the resolution of what has been a truly epic series pisses me off.

Niska

There's a nice summary of all info we know about TWOW:

https://bryndenbfish.wordpress.com/2015/01/05/the-complete-winds-of-winter-resource/

Also the original synopsis for books 4 and 5 when the 5 year gap was still planned (and later scrapped) - ties in with the released original 3 book overview form last month:

(spoilered as some plot points may yet apply)

Continuing the most ambitious and imaginative epic fantasy since The Lord of the Rings The action in Book Four of A Song of Ice and Fire begins the day after the end of A STORM OF SWORDS. While the remaining northern lords war endlessly with each other and the ironmen of the isles attack the Dreadfort, Sansa becomes a skilled player in the game of thrones with Littlefinger as her mentor, Arya a skilled assassin, and Bran a magician and shapeshifter of great power. All seek to gain revenge for the death of their parents and Robb Stark, whose head was cut off and replaced with the head of his direwolf. Valar morghulis. All men must die, and wolves, too. Danerys trains her growing dragons and learns from Barristan the secrets of her father, her brother Rhaegar, and other matters that will culminate at Starfell. And Jon Snow is the nine-hundredth-and-ninety-eighth lord commander of the Night's Watch. The Wall is his. The night is dark, and he has King Stannis to face. The cold wind is rising, and still there are inhuman powers gathering in the north.

Continuing the most imaginative and ambitious epic fantasy since The Lord of the Rings Winter has come at last and no man can say whether it will ever go again. The Wall is broken, the cold dead legions are coming south, and the people of the Seven Kingdoms turn to their queen to protect them. But Daenerys Targaryen is learning what Robert Baratheon learned before her; that it is one thing to win a throne and quite another to sit on one. Before she can hope to defeat the Others, Dany knows she must unite the broken realm behind her. Wolf and lion must hunt together, maester and greenseer work as one, all the blood feuds must be put aside, the bitter rivals and sowrn enemies join hands. The Winds of Winter tells the story of Dany's fight to save her new-won kingdom, of two desperate journeys beyond the known world in to the very hearts of ice and fire, and of the final clomactic battle at Winterfell, with life itself in the balance.

Greyjoy

Mickeroo wrote: »

Personally think that's one of the reason the show is better overall.

What the tv series has which the books lack is an editor who is willing to cut away the fat of pointless side plots and minor characters that don't advance the story in any meaningful way.

Duckworth_Luas

Greyjoy wrote: »

What the tv series has which the books lack is an editor who is willing to cut away the fat of pointless side plots and minor characters that don't advance the story in any meaningful way.

The editor cut away the fat ....... from the haunch of goat roasted with sweetgrass and basted with honey. This was swiftly followed by roast onions dripping with brown gravy, baked apples fragrant with cinnamon, and lemon cakes frosted in sugar. Pastries, cream swans, spun-sugar unicorns, spiced honey biscuits, and apple crisps served as desert. All washed down with wine sweetened with honey and fragrant with cinnamon and cloves.

December2012

Starfall - yes! I can't wait to get to know more of the mutha effin house Dayne!

Tom.D.BJJ

GET HYPE!!!!!

grrm.livejournal.com/412882.html

Mr Freeze

^ so, you think we might have the book this time next year?

podgemonster

Mr Freeze wrote: »

^ so, you think we might have the book this time next year?

I think so, he released the Mercy chapter just before the Season 4 episode where Arya kills Polliver in a similar vengeful fashion as

Mercy kills Raff.

That always struck me as Georges letting the readers know that that scene was taken from the unwritten books as opposed to the shows writers coming up with it.

I think George wants to be the one to release his art as apposed to an adapted version of it in another media. The comic cons are more than likely motivators for himself to get his act together before Season 6.

He'll won't be able to do it for A Dream of Spring though.

Tom.D.BJJ

Mr Freeze wrote: »

^ so, you think we might have the book this time next year?

I think it's very likely

RobbingBandit

Time to go north of the wall and freeze for a year so.

Sleepy

I have to admit, I'm hoping his publishers leave the editor a little more time on this one. I've always felt that Dance would have benefited from a little more editing before it was released. Perhaps it's just the case that when you get to this level of success an editor is afraid to challenge the author or that the author is simply too powerful but just some simple tightening of things like over-use of words and phrases would have improved it.

Godge

New Sansa (Alayne) chapter up on Martin's site

GerB40

Godge wrote: »

New Sansa (Alayne) chapter up on Martin's site

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/

Sleepy

Nothing surprising in that at all, very much a filler chapter imo

Hibbeler

Sleepy wrote: »

Nothing surprising in that at all, very much a filler chapter imo

To be fair it's probably a set up for the next Sansa/Alayne chapter. The one that's supposedly supposed to be possibly controversial

GerB40

Hibbeler wrote: »

To be fair it's probably a set up for the next Sansa/Alayne chapter. The one that's supposedly supposed to be possibly controversial

That's what I think. The chapter is too happy and we all know what happens soon after 'happy chapters' in ASoIaF. It's good to see a sassier Sansa clearly getting used to the game..

Mr Freeze

This controversial chapter!

Do we know anything about it, other that its going to be controversial?

GerB40

Mr Freeze wrote: »

This controversial chapter!

Do we know anything about it, other that its going to be controversial?

At the moment we don't and considering how infamous it's becoming I reckon it'll be kept firmly under wraps until TWoW is released. And when you think about how controversial some chapters in ASoIaF have been so far, this one must be on a whole other level of gruesomeness..

intellectual dosser

What are the original sources behind this controversial chapter?

Hibbeler

Wasn't all of this based on the comments of one of the people GRRM gets to read over his work (not sure who it was, Elia Garcia maybe?) who said that he read one Sansa chapter from TWOW that might be controversial to some people. Obviously all of the speculation since then has caused the whole thing to balloon up. It might be bad, it might not be.

GerB40

intellectual dosser wrote: »

What are the original sources behind this controversial chapter?

Elio and Linda at westeros.org are basically George R R Martins unofficial personal assistants. They know the story inside out (even moreso than George in some cases) so whenever George is stuck or forgets certain details he contacts Elio and Linda who will invariably get him out of whichever jam he finds himself in. Because of this trust they have been given snippets of what's to come in the next book or two and it was them who mentioned this infamous chapter.

Hibbeler

GRRM says he wants to finish Winds by 2016...

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/04/03/george-rr-martin-winds-date

GerB40

Hibbeler wrote: »

GRRM says he wants to finish Winds by 2016...

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/04/03/george-rr-martin-winds-date

It's good to hear a sense of urgency from the main man regarding TWoW but one part has me intrigued.

In one intriguing new wrinkle, Martin says he just came up with a big, revealing twist on a long-time character that he never previously considered. “This is going to drive your readers crazy,” he teases, “but I love it. I’m still weighing whether to go that direction or not. It’s a great twist. It’s easy to do things that are shocking or unexpected, but they have to grow out of characters. They have to grow out of situations. Otherwise, it’s just being shocking for being shocking. But this is something that seems very organic and natural, and I could see how it would happen. And with the various three, four characters involved… it all makes sense. But it’s nothing I’ve ever thought of before. And it’s nothing they can do in the show, because the show has already—on this particular character—made a couple decisions that will preclude it, where in my case I have not made those decisions.”

What more could he possibly put us through?

Mr.Prodston

Must not get excited. Must not get excited. Must not get excited.

I wonder what the twist would be

johnnyskeleton

GerB40 wrote: »

It's good to hear a sense of urgency from the main man regarding TWoW but one part has me intrigued.

In one intriguing new wrinkle, Martin says he just came up with a big, revealing twist on a long-time character that he never previously considered. “This is going to drive your readers crazy,” he teases, “but I love it. I’m still weighing whether to go that direction or not. It’s a great twist. It’s easy to do things that are shocking or unexpected, but they have to grow out of characters. They have to grow out of situations. Otherwise, it’s just being shocking for being shocking. But this is something that seems very organic and natural, and I could see how it would happen. And with the various three, four characters involved… it all makes sense. But it’s nothing I’ve ever thought of before. And it’s nothing they can do in the show, because the show has already—on this particular character—made a couple decisions that will preclude it, where in my case I have not made those decisions.”

What more could he possibly put us through?

Dany going back to Quarth or Jeyne Westerling having Robbs child would be my best guesses.

Brian?

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Dany going back to Quarth or Jeyne Westerling having Robbs child would be my best guesses.

The thread title warns against spoilers, do we need to use spoiler tags? It's annoying on the phone.

Mr. Incognito

I was rereading book two last night.

When Davos meets with Salladhor Saan in the inn on Dragonstone Salladhor describes the forging of the flaming sword. First he tempered it with animal blood but it was roo brittle so finally he stabbed his wife to temper the steel for he loved her best.

Jon was "smoking" when he was stabbed. I wonder if stabbing the Red woman will turn his blade into the lightbringer

Hans Bricks

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I was rereading book two last night.

When Davos meets with Salladhor Saan in the inn on Dragonstone Salladhor describes the forging of the flaming sword. First he tempered it with animal blood but it was roo brittle so finally he stabbed his wife to temper the steel for he loved her best.

Jon was "smoking" when he was stabbed. I wonder if stabbing the Red woman will turn his blade into the lightbringer

Azor Ahai had to kill the love of his life for Lightbringer to be truly forged. I imagine it would have to have been Ygritte or possibly Arya in that case. Melisandre couldn't possibly be Nissa Nissa from Jon's POV.

RobbingBandit

Hans Bricks wrote: »

Azor Ahai had to kill the love of his life for Lightbringer to be truly forged. I imagine it would have to have been Ygritte or possibly Arya in that case. Melisandre couldn't possibly be Nissa Nissa from Jon's POV.

Or Ghost

Thargor

Stab Arya or Ghost? Seriously?

Hans Bricks

Thargor wrote: »

Stab Arya or Ghost? Seriously?

I was thinking of potential Nissa Nissa candidates and since Ygritte has already kicked the bucket, Arya is arguably the most important female in Jon's life. Not in an incestual sense either though.

Hans Bricks

You probably won't find much better than this in terms of believable theories & cryptic messages from GRRM

http://gameofthronesandnorsemythology.blogspot.ie/2013/05/ragnarok-song-of-ice-fire.html

I've only read three blog posts. They're very long, but definitely worth the read if you're interested in predicting what will happen for the rest of the series. Really made my head spin.