The Winds of Winter (Book 6 Discussion) **SPOILERS for all books & future books**

FunLover18

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Warging into a human is no joke and if anyone was likely to do it, it would be Bran. He has experience of it from warging into Hodor and despite Hodor not being the most strong minded person, Bran still had a hard job controlling him.

I don't think Jon will warg into Ghost and don't see any advantage to him warging into another person. I think Robb's letter naming Jon as his heir will come into play somehow.

Completely forgot about that ... was that in the book? What happened it? I presume it absolved Jon of his vows

December2012

FunLover18 wrote: »

Completely forgot about that ... was that in the book? What happened it? I presume it absolved Jon of his vows

It's part of the Northern Conspiracy

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1iwfc1/spoilers_all_the_grand_northern_conspiracy_parts/

RobbingBandit

Some stuff I have been thinking about.

Rickon is in Skagos with Osha (Davos is told to go find him on the island with Cannibals)

Bran is with the Three Eyed Crow. Who may eventually Warg into him so as to have a semi usable body, more usable than his tree hybrid form.

If and when both emerge which one will become the heir to Winterfell?

Will Stannis if still alive use Rickon to burn him due to his kings blood or use him to rally the north to his cause?

I can see Ilyn Payne dying and Jamie becoming the new King's Justice or just joining that role to his own as the Lord Commander of The Kings Guard, therefore he will upon return to Kings Landing be the one to execute Cersei if she is condemned to die.

GerB40

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Some stuff I have been thinking about.

Rickon is in Skagos with Osha (Davos is told to go find him on the island with Cannibals)

Bran is with the Three Eyed Crow. Who may eventually Warg into him so as to have a semi usable body, more usable than his tree hybrid form.

If and when both emerge which one will become the heir to Winterfell?

Will Stannis if still alive use Rickon to burn him due to his kings blood or use him to rally the north to his cause?

I can see Ilyn Payne dying and Jamie becoming the new King's Justice or just joining that role to his own as the Lord Commander of The Kings Guard, therefore he will upon return to Kings Landing be the one to execute Cersei if she is condemned to die.

Sorry but I have to disagree with basically every thing you said.
1) If the three eyed raven is so powerful (he can control Coldhands) then why would he warg into a cripple?. Why not a white walker or full bodied fighter?.
2) The eldest son will always be the heir, just like monarchy today. Therefore Bran would be the legal heir, should they both emerge.
3) Why would Rickon be burned for kings blood? His father was the warden & protector of the north, not a king.
4) I reckon the Jaime story arc would suggest he's more of a pacifist now and would not be directly responsible for his sisters death. (Although that valonqar prophesy is a pain in the arsé puzzle.)
But knowing GRRMs writing style you could be 100% correct. It's tough to predict where this amazing story is headed...

RobbingBandit

1. Because Bran is also a Warg that can take control of humans as seen when he warged into Hodor. I also recall Jojen reed having a dream where a winged wolf was chained and being attacked by the three eyed raven, to me that seems a reversal of the situation of the three eyed raven as his body has grown into the three.

2.Bran is a cripple, the northmen won't follow him any more than he could become a knight, where do you think this is we are talking about, Dorne? :P

3.Robb aka The King in the North is why Rickon would be burned for Kings blood, same blood flows in him as it did in Robb, one of the main reasons Jon sent Maestar Aemon away is he feared Melisandre would burn him due to him being a brother and uncle of Targaryen kings and queens.

4. The Jamie line is a theory.

FunLover18

Bran was chained by his crippled body. The Three eyed throw was trying to get him to fly, through warging. Npw they've met that's exactly what Bran is doing. Bran is a cripple and his body is almost as useless as the three-eyed crow's

Mr Freeze

Do we have any idea how Brynden Rivers ended up beyond the wall as the Three Eyed Crow?

I just want this book now, I wouldn't leave the house all weekend if I had it.

Tom.D.BJJ

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Do we have any idea how Brynden Rivers ended up beyond the wall as the Three Eyed Crow?

I just want this book now, I wouldn't leave the house all weekend if I had it.

All we know for sure is that he was sent to the wall and rose to become Lord Commander. How he ventured out above the wall and became the three eyed crow, we'll have to wait and see although it might relate to the Night's king (Coldhands?)

RobbingBandit

The Child of the Forest has keep him alive by infusing him with the roots in the cave he is trapped in, given his past I think no good can come from him, he is The Other.

Riamfada

I think Melisadre will bring Jon back al la Thoros of Myr bringing back everyone.

GerB40

Riamfada wrote: »

I think Melisadre will bring Jon back al la Thoros of Myr bringing back everyone.

People say that this is too predictable for GRRM but it makes too much sense not to happen. Not everything George writes has to be a massive twist, that would eventually f*ck up the narrative..

Mr.Prodston

The World of Ice and Fire (the coffee table book) may be out in October. It may tide us over for a while.

http://grrm.livejournal.com/360175.html

December2012

Just having a thought here - if Tommen dies does the throne go to Jamie then Tyrion?


Male relatives over female relatives?

RobbingBandit

December2012 wrote: »

Just having a thought here - if Tommen dies does the throne go to Jamie then Tyrion?


Male relatives over female relatives?

Jamie is Kings Guard, same as the crows, no land, no wife, no kids. Tyrion is wanted for Regicide(not really) and being a Kinslayer. By the end of the Winds of Winter Tommen and the Lannister clan will have lost their claim to the throne, I just hope G RR Martin doesn't go as far as to kill the kid.

Witcher

The Baratheon's are the royal family not the Lannisters so the throne would pass to Stannis as his closest paternal relative.

We already know Stannis is the rightful king but in the eyes of others he would be too.

RobbingBandit

Blay wrote: »

The Baratheon's are the royal family not the Lannisters so the throne would pass to Stannis as his closest paternal relative.

We already know Stannis is the rightful king but in the eyes of everyone else he would be too.

Stannis is either dead or going to die and is therefore meant for bigger things, he will end up as a prominent White Walker, the throne will go to either Aegon(if that is who he really is) Danearyes or someone from left field.

FunLover18

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Stannis is either dead or going to die and is therefore meant for bigger things, he will end up as a prominent White Walker, the throne will go to either Aegon(if that is who he really is) Danearyes or someone from left field.

Stannis is going to flay Roose Bolton to the bone :mad:

RobbingBandit

FunLover18 wrote: »

Stannis is going to flay Roose Bolton to the bone :mad:

Hope that happens first but I do think he will end up as a White Walker Danearyes is Azor Ahai reborn rather than Stannis even if he has the sword.

FunLover18

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Hope that happens first but I do think he will end up as a White Walker Danearyes is Azor Ahai reborn rather than Stannis even if he has the sword.

But he's south of the Wall ... Has there ever been a white walker south of the Wall

Paddy Cow

Would the throne not go to Myrcella? When Robb thought Bran and Sansa were dead, the next in line was Sansa. Was that because Robb had no Uncles or male cousins?

hussey

Riamfada wrote: »

I think Melisadre will bring Jon back al la Thoros of Myr bringing back everyone.

In TV season 3 Mel meets the brotherhood who explain how this is done, this is not in the Book, so I reckon this was put in to spoonfeed viewers later on. Just like Renly & Loras. Ros to explain hidden plot lines etc etc

FunLover18

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Would the throne not go to Myrcella? When Robb thought Bran and Sansa were dead, the next in line was Sansa. Was that because Robb had no Uncles or male cousins?

But Sansa is quite literally the last living, known Stark. Ned has no brothers left alive who had no sons.

Duckworth_Luas

If Tommen dies then the throne will pass to his older sister Mycella.

If Mycella dies without children then the throne would have passed to her uncle Stannis.

Stannis is a traitor in the eyes of King's Landing so the throne should then be passed on to his daughter Shireen.

If Shireen is considered unsuitable due to her relationship with Stannis or her illness the next in line would be the Aegon. If he is who he thinks he is of course.

If Aegon is fake then next in line is Daenerys. By the time she arrives in Westeros she may not even have to win the throne through right of conquest.

RobbingBandit

FunLover18 wrote: »

But he's south of the Wall ... Has there ever been a white walker south of the Wall

Snow is south of the wall now too, Winter has come.

Wasn't Cold Hands South of the Wall?

Witcher

If the system still runs by Targaryen rules on succession then Myrcella would be skipped over for Stannis, the Baratheon's have Targaryen blood and took their throne so they might aswell keep their succession rules, the system was designed to prevent power struggles so it makes sense.

Coldhands couldn't pass through the Wall.

FunLover18

Blay wrote: »

If the system still runs by Targaryen rules on succession then Myrcella would be skipped over for Stannis, the Baratheon's have Targaryen blood and took their throne so they might aswell keep their succession rules.

Coldhands couldn't pass through the Wall.

Blay is right, Coldhands couldn't pass the Wall. I understood that the source of the whitewalkers is The Others (whether they can pass or not is unclear) but I don't think Stannis (or anyone for that matter) can become a whitewalker south of the wall ... although Qyburn seems to have found a way.

Are there any theories out there regarding the Archmaester who met Sam in Oldtown and went off to find Danaerys (I can't remember his name)

Washington Irving

Blay wrote: »

If the system still runs by Targaryen rules on succession then Myrcella would be skipped over for Stannis, the Baratheon's have Targaryen blood and took their throne so they might aswell keep their succession rules.

That's true, but obviously the Lannisters and Tyrells aren't going to let Stannis take the throne which would mean Myrcella would be next in line regardless of whether the Targaryan laws of succession were kept.

Stannis being ruled out would likely mean that Shireen would be too.

After that there is no clear heir. The Lannisters and Tyrells would have to either legitimise one of Robert's bastards (King Gendry? :P), establish a new dynasty or hand the throne to a claimant such as Dany, Aegon or even Stannis (this would probably only happen if there was a winner emerging in the war and promises of titles/land etc were made).

I'd imagine the second option above would be the preference for the Lannisters/Tyrells at the moment with a marriage between the houses.

FunLover18

Washington Irving wrote: »

That's true, but obviously the Lannisters and Tyrells aren't going to let Stannis take the throne which would mean Myrcella would be next in line regardless of whether the Targaryan laws of succession were kept.

Stannis being ruled out would likely mean that Shireen would be too.

After that there is no clear heir. The Lannisters and Tyrells would have to either legitimise one of Robert's bastards (King Gendry? :P), establish a new dynasty or hand the throne to a claimant such as Dany, Aegon or even Stannis (this would probably only happen if there was a winner emerging in the war and promises of titles/land etc were made).

The second option above would be the preference at the moment with a marriage between the houses.

What about cousins? Would it not go to Stannis' uncles (if he had any) and their sons?

December2012

FunLover18 wrote: »

Are there any theories out there regarding the Archmaester who met Sam in Oldtown and went off to find Danaerys (I can't remember his name)

Marwin the Mage? He trained Miri maz dhur who killed drogo

Washington Irving

FunLover18 wrote: »

What about cousins? Would it not go to Stannis' uncles (if he had any) and their sons?

It would, but we know almost nothing about the extended Baratheon family or if there even is one.

Duckworth_Luas

Washington Irving wrote: »

Stannis being ruled out would likely mean that Shireen would be too.

Not necessarily. For example, if Shireen, as Stannis' heir, was married into another noble house at war with her father.

Washington Irving

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Not necessarily. For example, if Shireen, as Stannis' heir, was married into another noble house at war with her father.

That's why I said 'likely'. Her age, her greyscale and being at Castle Black don't make a marriage look like a possibilty any time soon though.

RobbingBandit

FunLover18 wrote: »

Blay is right, Coldhands couldn't pass the Wall. I understood that the source of the whitewalkers is The Others (whether they can pass or not is unclear) but I don't think Stannis (or anyone for that matter) can become a whitewalker south of the wall ... although Qyburn seems to have found a way.

Are there any theories out there regarding the Archmaester who met Sam in Oldtown and went off to find Danaerys (I can't remember his name)

The last vision of Quaithe tells Danaerys,

"No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning..."

The Archmaester had a dragon glass candle. I would guess he is a dragon tamer, or he is on his way to try and kill them.

December2012

New trailer for Season 4 - Titan of Braavos looks good!

http://grrm.livejournal.com/360552.html

Mr Freeze

RobbingBandit wrote: »

The last vision of Quaithe tells Danaerys,

"No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning..."

Ya, It's hard to know what these glass candles are yet.

So many damn prophecies too, hopefully the next book ties up a few of them as either false or correct.

Mr Freeze

RobbingBandit wrote: »

...Tommen and the Lannister clan will have lost their claim to the throne, I just hope G RR Martin doesn't go as far as to kill the kid.

I'd fully expect Tommen to be killed in a similar fashion to Rhaegar's children.

He is going to get his head smashed in at some stage.

beardedmaster

Mr Freeze wrote: »

I'd fully expect Tommen to be killed in a similar fashion to Rhaegar's children.

He is going to get his head smashed in at some stage.

As horrible as that sounds, you're probably right. I hope Ser Pounce, Lady Whiskers and Boots emerge unscathed, however.

Turtyturd

Mr Freeze wrote: »

I'd fully expect Tommen to be killed in a similar fashion to Rhaegar's children.

He is going to get his head smashed in at some stage.

Further to my wish to see Jamie kill Cersei after she orders Kings landing burned to the ground while Danaerys' army sac the city. It would be another nice throwback to have The Undead Mountain kill both Tommen and his sister on crazy Cersei's orders because she didn't want anybody to hurt them. And to present the bodies to her wrapped in gold cloaks.

RobbingBandit

Ok last crazy theory from me for a while, what if Melisandre somehow wargs the spirt of Jon Snow from Ghost into the shell of Stannis, then her visions of Stannis and Jon Snow while thinking of Azor Ahai will be true.

Mr Freeze

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Ok last crazy theory from me for a while, what if Melisandre somehow wargs the spirt of Jon Snow from Ghost into the shell of Stannis, then her visions of Stannis and Jon Snow while thinking of Azor Ahai will be true.

I just pictured Xzibit when I read that.

RobbingBandit

Whose head has Qyburn used to make Robert Strong, Robb Stark or King Robert, we know it is most likely The Mountains body that has been used, I would imagine either Robb or King Robert have been used hence the name Robert.

FunLover18

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Whose head has Qyburn used to make Robert Strong, Robb Stark or King Robert, we know it is most likely The Mountains body that has been used, I would imagine either Robb or King Robert have been used hence the name Robert.

Is it not more likely that the skull they sent to Dorne wasn't Gregor's. It's not like they can do DNA tests

Mr Freeze

^ He never removes his helm supposedly, so there might be no head.

FunLover18

Mr Freeze wrote: »

^ He never removes his helm supposedly, so there might be no head.

Yeh but if he did remove it people would recognise the Mountain.

You could be right of course, head or no head he has to keep his helm on. We may never know

Mr Freeze

Well I think the head they sent to Dorne was probably The Mountains, as they did say it was huge, but it was just a large polished skull, so there is no definite proof that it was his.

The abnormal size of the skull would indicate that it could be The Mountain's head. I believe it's his head anyways, and Ser Robert Strong is his reanimated body with no head.

RobbingBandit

FunLover18 wrote: »

Is it not more likely that the skull they sent to Dorne wasn't Gregor's. It's not like they can do DNA tests

The head sent to Dorne was gigantic, Qyburn is a Necromancer also didn't Walder Fray send Robbs head to Kings Landing after the Frey men put Grey Winds head on Robbs body?

Witcher

No, Joffrey wanted it and Tywin told him to piss off and that's when they have their little fight.

RobbingBandit

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Ya, It's hard to know what these glass candles are yet.

So many damn prophecies too, hopefully the next book ties up a few of them as either false or correct.

Obsidian or Dragon Glass candles is what they are.

RobbingBandit

Blay wrote: »

No Joffrey wanted it and Tywin told him to piss off and that's when they have their little fight.

Joffrey wanted to give it to Sansa at his wedding, Tywin said no, I still think the head was sent to Kings Landing though, must look it up.

Mr Freeze

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Obsidian or Dragon Glass candles is what they are.

Sorry, I meant what do they mean, despite just magic being back in the world with the birth of the Dragons?

I suppose the question is, what are the Maesters up to? and what do they think the candles mean? I never read up on this at all.