The English tabloid conundrum

nlgbbbblth

Maybe some of you will have some opinions/views on this...

In Ireland, we support English soccer clubs, frequently instead of our own local teams. We cheer Rooney, Ferdinand, Campbell etc when they play for their clubs but as soon as they turn out for England you will see a sizeable majority of us shouting abuse and rooting for the opposition team (no matter who they are)

Nothing new there then.

One of the reasons people offer for this hypocritical stance is the "English tabloid media" and their "arrogant hyping up of England's chances".

Fair enough - the Sun and the Mirror are particularly bad offenders in this regard.

Therefore my question is - why the hell do so many Irish people buy these tabloids? Ignore the Oirish labelling on the masthead [it's meaningless].
And you'll notice that it the people who buy those tabloids tend to be the same people who hate the English team.

I hate England. I'd never shout for them - their papers are full of themselves and if they won we'd never hear the end of it.

Well, if you persist in buying a paper in which extols the virtues/chances of a team you "hate" well it's no surprise that you'll keeping hearing about it. :rolleyes:

mike65

See nothing to argue with here!

Mike.

eirebhoy

Its not just football that The Irish like to see England fail. I have no problem admitting that I don't like to see England winning (I don't feel half as strongly as I used to though) but I can't explain why. Everyone has someone they don't like to see succeed for an unexplainable reason. It has probably been passed down to me from everyone in my family (inlcuding my mother who has no interest in sport, has a load of English relatives but doesn't like to see them win).

KdjaCL

England won the world cup in 1966 Geaff hurst scored the winner against germany.

I know foot stuff but in 1970 the great brazil team ever won it and i can only name one scorer, yet i could have a good stab at naming the entire england team in 66. yet i was born in 75

Maradona scored with his hand in 86 but also in same game scored the greatest goal ever, which goal have heard or seen the most about?

Thye lost on penos to germany in 90 and 96 , 98 argentina beat them beckham sent off, 2002 ronaldinho didnt mean it.


The reason we hate them doing well is they never bloody shut up about it.

kdjac



kdjac

DoctorEdgeWild

I don't understand why you all seem to hate England. I agree that they have the worst fans in the world (violence, thuggery etc.). The English media is unique in how it loves to build up and knock down its heroes (see Rooney, Gazza etc.). But the team itself is made up of uys who we cheer for every week. Rooney, Scholes, Neville, etc for United, Campbell for Arsenal, Terry for Chelsea etc.

I don't understand the Anti-English sentiment coming across. They are our closest neighbours and I'd cheer for them if they were playing a team I felt neutral about.

Maybe I'm missing something, can someone fill me in? Why hate the English?

A Dub in Glasgo

DoctorEdgeWild wrote:

I don't understand why you all seem to hate England. I agree that they have the worst fans in the world (violence, thuggery etc.). The English media is unique in how it loves to build up and knock down its heroes (see Rooney, Gazza etc.). But the team itself is made up of uys who we cheer for every week. Rooney, Scholes, Neville, etc for United, Campbell for Arsenal, Terry for Chelsea etc.

I don't understand the Anti-English sentiment coming across. They are our closest neighbours and I'd cheer for them if they were playing a team I felt neutral about.

Maybe I'm missing something, can someone fill me in? Why hate the English?

I presume you mean football team at the end rather than the people.

I hate the England football team for the reasons you mentioned above and the fact that they are our closest rivals and nobody has a problem with hating their club football rivals. It is nothing personal against the players although their are a couple of honourable exceptions

mike65

KdjaC wrote:

98 argentina beat them beckham sent off, 2002 ronaldinho didnt mean it.

kdjac

But he did'nt mean it, really. Ask him and he'll tell you. I say, ask him and he'll tell you! (you gotta belive me on this!)

Mike.

DoctorEdgeWild

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

I presume you mean football team at the end rather than the people.

I hate the England football team for the reasons you mentioned above and the fact that they are our closest rivals and nobody has a problem with hating their club football rivals. It is nothing personal against the players although their are a couple of honourable exceptions

I get it, so you see them as rivals to our national team. But does this rivalry come from the whole Irish/English hatred (outside of football) like the German/English rivalry which comes from the War.

It just seems to me that people take absolute delight in the losses of the English footie team, almst as though it is a personal victory.

I take your point about rivalry though, I did enjoy the fact that Arsenal lost today as I support United. However, I cnsider Arsenal our rivals with regards league position. England and Ireland have not got a huge footballing rivalry in the same way Germany v France do, Argentina v Brazil do. These guys have had epic battles to try and qualify for tournaments and in those tournaments.

The Muppet

The only time I like England to lose is when they are Playing us other than that I am happy to see them and the players I support in the Premiership doing well. TBH I have always found the anti English sentiment of some Irish supporters stupid.

eirebhoy

The Muppet wrote:

TBH I have always found the anti English sentiment of some Irish supporters stupid.

I agree, it seems stupid but as I said a few times you can't just click your fingers and become neutral.

por

It's all down to an inferiority complex we Irish have when it comes to England, it's nothing new and happens in all sports all over the world, in GAA 31 counties like to see Dublin loose, in the US, Boston sports fans love to see the teams of their, larger neighbours, New York, loose, the Scots and Welsh also like to see England beaten.

If people are pissed off with the way the English media report\react to English sports teams then they should stop reading\watching the English media so much, the Irish media are just a bad for talking up our chances on some occasions.

It must also be remembered that English have actually won something and ever since have been trying to win it back, then have every right to go into tournaments with confidence and hope that this will be their year at last

The Muppet

eirebhoy wrote:

I agree, it seems stupid but as I said a few times you can't just click your fingers and become neutral.

I understand that and the reasons behind you feelings but I have always just looked on soccer as a game and have never got it and politics confused.

I understand where you're coming from Eirebhoy and AFAIK you don't support any premiership team so you are consistant with your ideals. It's supporters that do support English teams week in and week out having the anti English sentiment that I find confusing.

KdjaCL

The Muppet wrote:

I understand where you're coming from Eirebhoy and AFAIK you don't support any premiership team so you are consistant with your ideals. It's supporters that do support English teams week in and week out having the anti English sentiment that I find confusing.

That and them singing Irish IRA ballads whilst wearing a Man utd jersey , that pisses me off.

kdjac

jesus_thats_gre

If Ireland do not make it to a major tournament, I would certainly wish England on. However, I do get a strange satisfaction when they get beaten proper...

DerekD Goldfish

I don’t hate the English I don’t like any of the IRA cheering sectarian rubbish but
Whenever England are playing I cheer on the opposition the Irish are not alone in this in most country particularly ones with a larger more powerful neighbour cheer on the opposition its called rivalry. The Canadians cheer on the other team when the US are playing Ice Hockey, If half the people in the US knew Canada was their neighbour they would cheer on the opposition as well, New Zealanders want the Australians to lose, the Belgians want the Dutch to lose etc. Its not confined to International football How many Celtic fans cheer on rangers in Europe because at least their from Glasgow, How Many Milan fans cheer on Inter , Man utd fans cheer on City etc.
One of the few exception to this in In Ireland when a decent amount of the fans not them all want the other Irish teams to succeed in Europe but the main reason they do is selfish so that our co-efficient is improved and their team will have a better chance of progressing when they qualify for Europe.
Overall although some of the jeering toward the English is due to Bigotry bust most of it is just good natured rivalry that occurs worldwide

DoctorEdgeWild

Do you remember a couple of years ago, Ireland were playing Holland? The Dutch had just made a substitution but the announcer got the name wrong and announced Peter Lovenkrands (a former Rangers player) and every time he got the ball, there were choruses of boos. That is until the real Lovenkrands came on a there were more than a few red faced bigots.

This is the sort of thing that really lets the whole country down. It is almost as bad as the terrible racism seen in the Bernabeu. Its this small mindedness that holds all of society back.

Im not talking about booing someone who has dived or elbowed or some other unsportsmanlike behaviour but simply signing for a SCOTTISH team.

eirebhoy

DoctorEdgeWild wrote:

Do you remember a couple of years ago, Ireland were playing Holland? The Dutch had just made a substitution but the announcer got the name wrong and announced Peter Lovenkrands (a former Rangers player) and every time he got the ball, there were choruses of boos. That is until the real Lovenkrands came on a there were more than a few red faced bigots.

This is the sort of thing that really lets the whole country down. It is almost as bad as the terrible racism seen in the Bernabeu. Its this small mindedness that holds all of society back.

Im not talking about booing someone who has dived or elbowed or some other unsportsmanlike behaviour but simply signing for a SCOTTISH team.

This has been discussed umpteen times on boards and the vast majority are against the booing of Rangers players. Lovenkrands is Danish btw. Kevin Muscat played for Ireland against Australia while he was playing for Rangers and he wasn't booed. We all knew he played for Rangers because it was all over the media but because the likes of Kerr and Rooney told the fans to give up the booing it all stopped. It was all a bit of fun but it didn't seem that way to the outsider and fair enough.

This has nothing to do with this topic BTW.

A Dub in Glasgo

DoctorEdgeWild wrote:

Do you remember a couple of years ago, Ireland were playing Holland? The Dutch had just made a substitution but the announcer got the name wrong and announced Peter Lovenkrands (a former Rangers player) and every time he got the ball, there were choruses of boos. That is until the real Lovenkrands came on a there were more than a few red faced bigots.

This is the sort of thing that really lets the whole country down. It is almost as bad as the terrible racism seen in the Bernabeu. Its this small mindedness that holds all of society back.

Im not talking about booing someone who has dived or elbowed or some other unsportsmanlike behaviour but simply signing for a SCOTTISH team.

[offtopic]

FYI Lovenkrands is a current Rangers player and is from Denmark. All the more reason to boo the little cheating git after last weeks diving (but not at an Ireland game). How can it be as bad as racism? It was not racist, it was not sectarian. He was booed because he plays for a particular club. It was probably bigotted in the sense that the people that did boo him could not leave their Celtic/Rangers rivalry at the door (so to speak). A lot of people are football bigots (someone who has no time/tolerance of the views of their rivals) anyway. I believe the booing of Rangers players has now stopped which just goes to show that it was not an ingrained attitude.

Also, Rangers would not regard themselves as a Scottish team but a British team playing in Scotland

nlgbbbblth

so guys - the topic of this thread

any idea why Irish people buy English tabloids and simultaneously complain about them talking up the national team's chances?

DoctorEdgeWild

Sorry for dragging your topic off - my fault. I havent been here for the other threads. Apologies.

The English tabloids provide talking points- Zidane to sign for Portsmouth, Figo supports Bohs etc.

I think this sensationalism is what attracts people to the papers. Id rather read an article that I totally disagree with rather than one I feel indifferent to.

Pigman II

DoctorEdgeWild wrote:

The English tabloids provide talking points- Zidane to sign for Portsmouth, Figo supports Bohs etc.

I find that rumour highly unlikely ...the 'Zidane sign for Portsmouth' bit I mean.

WRT the topic, I think we'll find the kind of people who bang on about hating England and their national side actually revel in their condition and the tabloid muck they devour is merely the fuel that they unconciously desire to enflame their frenzy. Deprive them of it and, yes, they might return to something resembling normality.... but is it really what they themselves want to exist as?

DoctorEdgeWild

Pigman II wrote:

I find that rumour highly unlikely ...the 'Zidane sign for Portsmouth' bit I mean.

They were joke quotes dude.

Its the same reason why 'Im a celeb...' is popular, people like to read about sensational stories rather than more mundane but often more accurate stories.

For example, a picture of Jordan on the front of the paper will sell more copies of a paper with an actual story like a tax hike or something else which actually has real life importance.

Its just all part of the dumbing down of society, but if it makes people happy then who am I to judge?

jank

Because tabloids are generally bought by the working class and soccer is more of a working class sport. (as apposed to rugby )

Dont get me wrong I enjoy both and attend both but forget the PC here that is the general conception.

The english tabloids are ****e to read anyway and you cant believe anything they say tbh. I have no idea why they are so popular in ireland but I never buy them.

AthAnRi

I don't understand the Anti-English sentiment coming across. They are our closest neighbours and I'd cheer for them if they were playing a team I felt neutral about.

Maybe I'm missing something, can someone fill me in? Why hate the English?

Missing something? Unless you are being sarcastic I think you missed every history class you were ever supposed to have in School.

I really don't agree with the argument that if you support Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool then you have no right to hate England. This is crap. Partly the reason as to why I support Man U is because of the strong connection it has had with Irish players. The english league is the place where all our best players learn their trade. I know a load of English Man Utd fans that don't even support england.

Do I dislike england, Indeed I do, not on an individual basis but on a general overal basis. Is it because of the tabloids, absolutely no way, although I do hate the english tabloids also.

I dislike the English for a number of reasons,

1. every time you go to an club match the majority of home fans consistantly boo their fellow country man. For example I was at a Villa V Chelsea match and everytimne Frank Lampard took a corner he was deafened with abuse. An true Irish man would never boo a fellow country man no matter who he was playing for.

2. When ever England play an International match their fans boo the oppositions national Anthem. A ture mark of scumbagism. But when someone boos their national anthem there so called respectable jornalists(And I'm not talking about Tabloid/Toilet reporters) are outraged.

3. Lansdowne Road Incident.

4. Even though they pretend to support/like Ireland, there is a detectable undercurrent from a majority of the English that they look down on us to be a lesser race.

5. After living here for a few months now, The english mans, womans total lack of knowledge of Geography is absolutley abismal. They think if you are Irish that you have to be from either Dublin or Belfast. Both of which are in Britan supposedly.

The teams I support in order of prefernce are

Athenry(GAA)
Galway(GAA)
Ireland(GAA, Soccer, Rugby)
Man Utd(Soccer)

WhiteWashMan

actually, thats a very interesting point.
and i do see some merit in it.

but at the end of the day, its just going to be one of those hypocrasies that continue from day to day, and no matter how much we discuss it, no matter how much we rationalise it, people will still support an english football team, and boo the enlish national team.

just the same way that people keep thinking that boards.ie is real

but i agree that the media build up in the UK is really annoying with regards to winning the world cup in 66, the fact of the matter is it happened. and they do have a right to remember that.
jesus, people are still singing we're all part of jackies army for god sake! and who was at the battle of the boyne!

i think someone said that it wasnt just football though, its across all sporting formats. so i dont think its a football rivalry thing. i think its more a 'im a stupid moron' type thing

WhiteWashMan

AthAnRi wrote:

Missing something? Unless you are being sarcastic I think you missed every history class you were ever supposed to have in School.
)

what did the english do to you?

AthAnRi wrote:

1. every time you go to an club match the majority of home fans consistantly boo their fellow country man. For example I was at a Villa V Chelsea match and everytimne Frank Lampard took a corner he was deafened with abuse. An true Irish man would never boo a fellow country man no matter who he was playing for.
)

yes you are right.
i picture an irish man. tall of stature, square jaw, a wave of blonde hair, perhaps not too dissimilar to the perfect arian. perfect in everyway, until he opens his mouth, and cork accent appears.
a true irishman?
get out of here.

AthAnRi wrote:

2. When ever England play an International match their fans boo the oppositions national Anthem. A ture mark of scumbagism. But when someone boos their national anthem there so called respectable jornalists(And I'm not talking about Tabloid/Toilet reporters) are outraged.
)

ive seen the irish do it, ive seen the dutch do it, ive seen the italians do it, hell, ive even see the australians do it, and they are pretty much the most respectful people on the earth when it comes to other nationalities. no one said it was good, but hey, you can hardly single out one nation and call them scumbags on account of a small majority of people.
if that was the case, youre a scum bag because you little hill 16 scumbags, and im going to generalise and call all irish people scumbag because of it.

AthAnRi wrote:

3. Lansdowne Road Incident.
)

unacceptable, but again, a small majority of people. not too unlike the dutch supporters at all.

AthAnRi wrote:

4. Even though they pretend to support/like Ireland, there is a detectable undercurrent from a majority of the English that they look down on us to be a lesser race.
)

damn! you found out. you know the majority of english people couldnt even tell you the distinction between northern ireland and republic of ireland, or why theres even a fight there.
thats how high it rates in the average english persons interest. so, i seriously doubt there is a detectable undercurrent. the only undercurrent i am getting is your bigotry. the english look down on the irish?
i dont think so. i think the irish have a serious case of personality disorder. they always like to be the underdog, they always want to be the ones who are slighted, who are wronged. ireland as a nation is not a leader, it is a follower. it defers to just about everyone in the world, and the people tend to follow that attitude. no, the english dont look down on the irish. the irish just tend to want to think that, becuase it justifies theiur position.

AthAnRi wrote:

5. After living here for a few months now, The english mans, womans total lack of knowledge of Geography is absolutley abismal. They think if you are Irish that you have to be from either Dublin or Belfast. Both of which are in Britan supposedly.
)

and?

you think that the majority of irish people know the geography of england?
hey, why dont you tell me about the geography of france then?
what sort of stupid rubbish is this you are spouting?

AthAnRi wrote:

The teams I support in order of preference are

Athenry(GAA)
Galway(GAA)
Ireland(GAA, Soccer, Rugby)
Man Utd(Soccer)

but, soccer is an english sport!

its becuase of people exactly like you there is still anamosity in ireland. people who cannot and will not let the past lie down and move on with the future.
youre exactly the type of person that ireland doesnt need. you are not progressive, and you are not tolerant, and you are not able to stand up for yourself, instead, youre the typical type of person who will stand idly by while someone gets mugged, and then complain that there is never a policeman around when you need it (probably the fault of the english too no doubt)

im sure there are a few freebirds that need singing about back at the arms depot...

Pigman II

DoctorEdgeWild wrote:

They were joke quotes dude.

Eh, yeah I got it. Note how I picked directly on the 'Zidane-Portsmouth' quote and didn't say anything about the other one?

WhiteWashMan

zidane is going to portsmouth?

BaZmO*

nlgbbbblth wrote:

any idea why Irish people buy English tabloids and simultaneously complain about them talking up the national team's chances?

It reminds me of when Princess Diana died. So many people complained that the press hounded her to her death. And everybody said how close they felt to her and how she was such an institution and a public figure. But the reason why everybody felt like they new her was because the press constantly printed pictures and wrote articles about her. A little bit ironic me thinks!

Kinda the same thing I reckon.

B.

AthAnRi

Whitewash man:

At what point did my opinion become bigotry? I was merely expressing my opinion. I wasn't at all intolerent to any one elses opinion on the board, unlike your self. Is bigotry your new word for the day. My opinion may be prejudice, but I do embrace other peoples opinions and I was in no way enforcing my opinion on anyone. It's the way I feel, anything else I would have said would have been lies, and would make me a hypocrit.

I particularly like the way you judge me for my opinion. If you disagree with me please make an argument against it and then we can agree to disagree. Maybe it is you who is the bigot?

It looks to me that your are just posting a point to start a pointless argument.

And as for the mugging? What the hell kinda sh1t are you talking about? Of course I wouldn't stand Idily by, I'd give the Mugger a hand and take my percentage.

WhiteWashMan

can you say 'inferiority complex'?

but of course, i was merely posting my opinion...

evilhomer

so when is zidane signing for portsmouth?
is it the january transfer window or the end of the season??
must go buy Sun, for accurate, unbiased details of the transfer!!!

DoctorEdgeWild

I think I saw Figo among the travelling support in Flancare Park a couple weeks ago. Wearing the Des Kelly proudly.

Zidane is a good friend of Harry, but now that transfer is in doubt. Thanks Milan Mandaric. Shrewsbury Town are still interested though.

:cool:

Maybe start a new thread for the English debate, I dont know but my two cents are that I couldn't care less about where a person is from. For example, I know a guy who has brothers in Jail, the biggest a$$hole in Ireland, but my friend is the nicest guy ever. Dont judge a person by their background is how I do things.

Back to the tabloids however, does anybody know the circulation figures for say, the Irish Sun as opposed to the Indo? I'd be interested to know.

nlgbbbblth

AthAnRi wrote:

I really don't agree with the argument that if you support Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool then you have no right to hate England. This is crap. Partly the reason as to why I support Man U is because of the strong connection it has had with Irish players. The english league is the place where all our best players learn their trade. I know a load of English Man Utd fans that don't even support england.

of course you don't agree with it - if you did you would be calling yourself a hypocrite and no one wants to admit that

So if Man Utd had no Irish players then you would stop supporting them?

I find it hard to believe that a "load of English Man Utd fans" don't support their national team. I'd like to see some proof of that.

AthAnRi wrote:

The teams I support in order of prefernce are

Athenry(GAA)
Galway(GAA)
Ireland(GAA, Soccer, Rugby)
Man Utd(Soccer)

As pointed out soccer is an English game. So is rugby.
Yet you hate the English

The signature underneath your name - from Big Ron - do you know he is English too?

Frankly, WhiteWashMan is correct. You are the worst type of hypocrite.
A neighbour of mine hates the English.
He speaks only Irish,
He watches only Irish TV
He only follows hurling and football
- at least he's consistent

Slash/ED

nlgbbbblth wrote:

I find it hard to believe that a "load of English Man Utd fans" don't support their national team. I'd like to see some proof of that.

That much at least is very true. Going off topic, Man U are famous for it. They chant Argentina chants for Heinze and to show that. It all comes from the fact that you hear crap like "stand up if you hate Man U" at England games when half of the team they're supporting plays for Man U! The treatment of Beckham after '98 and the fickeless towards him when they hero worshipped him three years later didn't help either.

It's not just limited to them, alot of supports from the bigger clubs in England, in my experience, don't support the National team. In fact, if you look at an England game and look at the flags with club initials in them, they're nearly all lower league teams. I'm not sure exactly why that is except in the case of Man U.

A Dub in Glasgo

nlgbbbblth wrote:

I find it hard to believe that a "load of English Man Utd fans" don't support their national team. I'd like to see some proof of that.

You are not going to get proof unless you know English Man United fans. From my experience, quite a few of the English Man Utd support do not support England.

The Muppet

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

You are not going to get proof unless you know English Man United fans. From my experience, quite a few of the English Man Utd support do not support England.

I am a member of a couple of dedicated Uk based Man U forums and there is definitely a sizeable contingent who do not support the national team with the same commitment as they do Man United.

AthAnRi

As pointed out soccer is an English game. So is rugby.
Yet you hate the English

So if Man Utd had no Irish players then you would stop supporting them?

To the first point At what point did I say I hated the English? I may dislike them but none of the reasons I said were for something that happened outside my lifetime, they have always been something I witnessed first hand apart for the Landsdowne road incident. I haven't alway

Secondly, If you read my post I did say that partly (It's a big word I know) the reason I support Man U is because of the Irish connection. Is it the only reason no but If Man Utd didn't have any Irish players then I wouldn't have as keen an interest.

If people want to believe I'm a hypocrite then believe it, but at least learn the meaning of the word first.

hypocrite:
a person who professes beliefs and opinions that he does not hold.

Do I boo an Irishman when he is playing for his club? Nor do I boo an Utd player when he is playing for his Country.

Do I boo when any National Anthem other than the the Irish one is played. No

Did I ever rip up part of a football ground, stadium, and strat throwing it at the crowd/players. No

Do I pretend to like someone I don't? No

As for my final point I will admit it is not a reason to dislike anyone but I do happen to know a bit about the Geography of England. It is a stupid statement but I doesn't make me a hypocrit.

And as for watching soccer well at the end of a day it's a sport. Just because it is supposedly an English game(Which can be argued) it is at the end of the day a sport. Besides whats sweeter than beating some one at their own game

Finally as for the Big Ron statement. It really glorifies the man I agree.

WhiteWashMan

i dont want to sound pedantic (its a big word, you may want to look it up) but the majority of the things you have listed are actually not opinions or beliefs, and therefore dont fall into the catagory you are defending as hypocracy.

just thought id mention it.

AthAnRi

i dont want to sound pedantic (its a big word, you may want to look it up) but the majority of the things you have listed are actually not opinions or beliefs, and therefore dont fall into the catagory you are defending as hypocracy.

just thought id mention it.

Thanks for that, Really appreciate it. And don't worry about sounding pedantic we all have our weaknesess. I am taking this oppurtunity to thank WWM and nlgbbbblth for being so quick to point out my weaknesses. I will certainly take their thoughts and opinions into account. If you are upset by my thoughts/statements then I apologise. As for now I will no longer be a part of this discussion as I feel it has run it's course and is growing tedious.

I'm off to heve my Inferiority Complex checked out and to buy myself a rather large spoon. Later.

WhiteWashMan

ok, have fun.

but i would like to point out for the record that i didnt point out any weaknesses.

i merely pointed out the inconsitancies on something you said.

with regards your original post, i challenged you on some of your opions. thats all.

but the topic is about media and the english football team.
and i still think that the english media is responsible for over sensationalising so much rubbish, that really has no relavance to anything.
on the other hand, they do do a good job of getting alot of support behind their country for importnat games and competitions. is that wrong in itself?
i dont think so. i think its great actually. i mean, everyone who is a fan wants everyone to support the home team dont they?

but on the down side, are they too quick to critisize, finger point and full down the heros they built the week before. or are they just the same as us, opinionated, just with the power to print their opnions?
lets face it, a lot of the stuff that goes onhere is not too dissimilar to the sort of things that are said on theback pages of the tabloids

BaZmO*

WhiteWashMan wrote:

lets face it, a lot of the stuff that goes onhere is not too dissimilar to the sort of things that are said on theback pages of the tabloids

Never a truer word said!!

nlgbbbblth

any more thoughts on this?

was reminded of it Thursday when a young guy at work was crowing about England's 4-1 loss to Denmark the previous night. He always cheers the opposition when England play - primarily because 'of the arrogant English media'.
He supports Liverpool (and Celtic) and was reading the match report in The Sun. :rolleyes:

He was shocked when I told him on my last visit to Belfast I saw several people wearing combined Liverpool and Rangers scarves. Like many Irish people he failed to notice the a nunber of those same scarves being prominently displayed at the Champions League final earlier this year.

Necronomicon

I used to be adamently anti-English (FOOTBALL-wise) which I think came from my family always supporting the opposition, but not so much nowadays. Last year during Euro 2004 when I was cheering on Portugal when they were playing England I felt a bit hypocritical because I knew when the tournament was over I'd be going back to supporting United.

Having said that, I would let out a big sigh if England won the World Cup....I don't buy English tabloids, but I don't think that would change anything, I'd still manage to hear about it every minute of the day for a long time.

Just a final note on the English press, I'll never understand them...at all. They build up their stars all the time, just to knock them down. They seem to absolutely love it. Coming up to a bill of friendlies I'm sure there was a lot of papers talking up England's chances in the WC...then they have a disasterous game losing 4-1 and every tabloid jumps on them. "James is Finished, defence are shambles" etc. They did the exact same thing during some of the qualifiers earlier on in the year, which lead to a media boycott by the players.

Spider_Baby!

I dont dislike England. Sure,when they play, at times ill be up for the opposition but i very much like the players they have on their team.

I remember my dad(who has no interest in football) before France v England at the Euros, had never heard of Zidane. I dragged him home to see the 2nd half of the game, and he was furious that england were gonna win. Then i told him to wait, because Zidane might do something The cheer from my dad when he scored that peno....

nlgbbbblth

Spider_Baby! wrote:

I dont dislike England. Sure,when they play, at times ill be up for the opposition but i very much like the players they have on their team.

what about Brazil?

would you say many Irish people cheer on whoever Brazil's opposition is but still like Brazilian players?

can't remember where I read it but a few years ago some journalist compared
Irish people's attitude towards English soccer/England team as

'Like people advocating/admiring/supporting nazism but hating Hitler'

jubbly

i never would buy any of those rags that call themselves tabloids. they are full of lies and misprints

Spider_Baby!

nlgbbbblth wrote:

what about Brazil?

would you say many Irish people cheer on whoever Brazil's opposition is but still like Brazilian players?

can't remember where I read it but a few years ago some journalist compared
Irish people's attitude towards English soccer/England team as

'Like people advocating/admiring/supporting nazism but hating Hitler'

That is completely different. With Brazil, you've got loads of great players, like England, but they dont have a history with Ireland like England do. This is the reason behind Irsish, and hating the English national team.

Blackjack

perhaps best to bin this ****e or move it to politics. My choice would be the former, not that it makes any difference.

nlgbbbblth

Blackjack wrote:

perhaps best to bin this ****e or move it to politics. My choice would be the former, not that it makes any difference.

Why is it sh*te?
It's a perfectly reasonable query which has not really been adequately answered.

~Rebel~

I have a bit of a theory on the whole liking an english team but not likeing THE English team. Ok, well, as a rule, we kind of see sport as an extension of war. Its competition, battling, sure even the way its described with strikers being touted as "firepower". Now in war do you really have a problem with the people on the other side? no, you're fighting the overall establishment of the other Nation. Same in football, when someone represents liverpool, they're representing Liverpool and thats it, they're part of the greater body that is Liverpool. When the same player represents England its the same, i dont have any problem with the players, but they're representing a greater body that is England and i must admit i still (like eirabhoy said) inexplicably wanna see them lose. Not vehemently(sp?) or anything, but its still there. So theres my explanation as to why people can support an English team, but not the England team themselves who may share many of the same players. So moving onto why we (some at least) do kinda dislike england. Well, it is compulsary for us to learn at school about the "800 years of tyrany and oppression" which did only end less then 100 years ago. Now i dont think most people have any problems with that anymore, things change, but at the same time i think its only natural for some residual effect of that to be carried on, in a bit of (generally not particularly bad natured) competition and the wish to see them failing at something where noone dies, they just look a bit silly. This coupled with the natural rivalry always seen between larger/smaller neighbouring countries/counties/towns/villages etc makes it only natural to have that bit of rivalry. Christ you should see the atmosphere at the "local derby" when tracton take on ballymartle in hurling, you'd swear everyone hated each other, but when alls said and done yee head for pints after.
Well thats my opinion anyway..