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Elderly brothers beaten to death during botched burglary in Castlebar

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    #62
    yew_tree
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭yew_tree


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    How do you distinguish those people from the people who can be rehabilitated?

    Simple...repeat offenders and those who show no remorse. Look at the case in Galway of Manuela Riedo - her murderer had bench warrants our for him and a spate of convictions - people here on about knee Jerk reactions but come of it - how many more murders have to take place....I guessing God Forbid one of you own family members were attacked, raped or murdered.

    Bottom Line is Ireland is too soft on criminals....we only have to look at our bankers for more proof here.


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    #63
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    It's not going to be hard for his defence to get around any murder charges with the likes of that to fall back on is there?



    Yeah and neither harsher prisons nor the death penalty have ever been shown to be a deterrent for crime. Though with the death penalty there's certainly no chance of someone re-offending.

    Crime has in fact fallen in the last 2 generations in the US. And there is statistical proof that if you penalize the small stuff - broken windows policing - not only does the crime rate fall for the small stuff but also the large stuff.


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    #64
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Xenji wrote: »
    It should be a eye for a eye, you murder a person and your own life should be forfeit, end of story.

    How has the death penalty worked as a deterrent on countries/states that have it? I'm pretty sure its not been a success.
    Kristopherus wrote: »
    But in the US you are likely to get a long enough sentence that will ensure you'll never get out, so it dosen't matter.

    That's not the case in the US right now though. They have a terrible system, we should ensure we do not copy it in any way.


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    #65
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    That said the real issue here is where were the psychriatric reports.


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    #66
    Alpha Dog 1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭Alpha Dog 1


    Xenji wrote: »
    Judge Devins already said 4 years ago that he was "the most difficult case she had came across" and “obviously something fundamentally wrong” , but yet he was still left to wander the streets.

    Typical of the way things work in this country. He was only let out of jail on Monday and he then goes and does that on Tuesday night.

    How the hell was this maniac released?


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    #67
    Xenji
    Registered Users Posts: 11,505 ✭✭✭✭Xenji


    Alpha Dog 1 wrote: »
    Typical of the way things work in this country. He was only let out of jail on Monday and he then goes and does that on Tuesday night.

    How the hell was this maniac released?

    Do you have a link that says he was only let out of jail on monday, not doubting you, just wanna read it.


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    #68
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Xenji wrote: »
    Do you have a link that says he was only let out of jail on monday, not doubting you, just wanna read it.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/suspect-in-murder-of-brothers-just-out-of-prison-29411893.html
    Didn't see a date mentioned, just "recently released"


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    #69
    mistermano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 121 ✭✭mistermano


    is anybody held responsible apart from the perpetrator, for allowing this to happen?


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    #70
    yop
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 16,724 Mod ✭✭✭✭yop


    mistermano wrote: »
    is anybody held responsible apart from the perpetrator, for allowing this to happen?

    Give u a clue, Financial regulator was in "charge" of the banks during the farce, whats he at now?


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    #71
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Xenji wrote: »
    It should be a eye for a eye, you murder a person and your own life should be forfeit, end of story.

    Old Testament style? Or maybe we should have a hardline Islamic style justic system?


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    #72
    Xenji
    Registered Users Posts: 11,505 ✭✭✭✭Xenji


    old hippy wrote: »
    Old Testament style? Or maybe we should have a hardline Islamic style justic system?

    At this rate somebody just needs to be made a example of and to send a message for all the other scum out there, should take a cheese gratter to his bollox and have a nice supply of lemons to squeeze on it after and get more and more severe after that.


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    #73
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Xenji wrote: »
    At this rate somebody just needs to be made a example of and to send a message for all the other scum out there, should take a cheese gratter to his bollox and have a nice supply of lemons to squeeze on it after and get more and more severe after that.

    Do you think that would actually have an effect?


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    #74
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Xenji wrote: »
    At this rate somebody just needs to be made a example of and to send a message for all the other scum out there, should take a cheese gratter to his bollox and have a nice supply of lemons to squeeze on it after and get more and more severe after that.

    And what sort of "message" is advocating a sadistic sexual assault on someone, hmmm?


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    #75
    Xenji
    Registered Users Posts: 11,505 ✭✭✭✭Xenji


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Do you think that would actually have an effect?

    People in this country have the mentality these days that they can get away with anything they do, and even if caught they won't face major repercussions or will just be given a slap on the wrist.

    So yeah we need far more severe punishments for people and instill in them the notion that if you do a crime you will be punished, and if that does not work then what will.

    Do you think Alan Cawley will go to jail, he won't get near it, he will be put in a institution.


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    #76
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    old hippy wrote: »
    And what sort of "message" is advocating a sadistic sexual assault on someone, hmmm?

    Ah. Old hippy. Good man. Nothing to see here is there? Just nasty old right wingers getting upset at the battering of two innocent old men while you remain frosty, indifferent and liberal; meanwhile the justice system is fine, the problem is we as a society not the perp, and isn't everybody except you a nasty right winger.

    Now. Having made your case for you can you leave?


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    #77
    yop
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 16,724 Mod ✭✭✭✭yop


    Mod Note - Keep it civil folks, I'm off to the beach, so be nice ;)


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    #78
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Xenji wrote: »
    So yeah we need far more severe punishments for people and instill in them the notion that if you do a crime you will be punished, and if that does not work then what will.

    But it doesn't work. Long and harsh sentences do not reduce re-offence rates. Proper rehabilitation reduces re-offending rates. Long/harsh sentences do not reduce the rate of crime either.


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    #79
    Xenji
    Registered Users Posts: 11,505 ✭✭✭✭Xenji


    old hippy wrote: »
    And what sort of "message" is advocating a sadistic sexual assault on someone, hmmm?

    Have Ichi The Killer on, seemed to work in that lol :pac:


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    #80
    mistermano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 121 ✭✭mistermano


    Xenji wrote: »
    People in this country have the mentality these days that they can get away with anything they do, and even if caught they won't face major repercussions or will just be given a slap on the wrist.

    So yeah we need far more severe punishments for people and instill in them the notion that if you do a crime you will be punished, and if that does not work then what will.

    Do you think Alan Cawley will go to jail, he won't get near it, he will be put in a institution.

    dunno about all that

    i think we just need to keep dangerous ,unrehabilitated felons off the streets


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    #81
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    Xenji wrote: »
    People in this country have the mentality these days that they can get away with anything they do, and even if caught they won't face major repercussions or will just be given a slap on the wrist.

    So yeah we need far more severe punishments for people and instill in them the notion that if you do a crime you will be punished, and if that does not work then what will.

    Do you think Alan Cawley will go to jail, he won't get near it, he will be put in a institution.

    In this case he probably is nuts. However where were the previous psychiatric reports? Why wasn't he already committed. He was in prison.


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    #82
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    But it doesn't work. Long and harsh sentences do not reduce re-offence rates. Proper rehabilitation reduces re-offending rates. Long/harsh sentences do not reduce the rate of crime either.

    But they do.


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    #83
    Xenji
    Registered Users Posts: 11,505 ✭✭✭✭Xenji


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    But it doesn't work. Long and harsh sentences do not reduce re-offence rates. Proper rehabilitation reduces re-offending rates. Long/harsh sentences do not reduce the rate of crime either.

    Rehabilitation I am all for, don't get me wrong, but you also need a long sentance, if the person has become rehabilitated, then he will understand and accept why he has to stay in jail so long.


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    #84
    Kristopherus
    Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    But it doesn't work. Long and harsh sentences do not reduce re-offence rates. Proper rehabilitation reduces re-offending rates. Long/harsh sentences do not reduce the rate of crime either.

    Well, certainly in the case of the receptors of the long sentences, it works very well. They cannot do any harm while inside.


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    #85
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    But they do.

    Highest recedivism rates comes from prison sentences. The harsher the sentence the less likely the person is to find employment, which is a key factor in offending for many crimes.


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    #86
    Xenji
    Registered Users Posts: 11,505 ✭✭✭✭Xenji


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    In this case he probably is nuts. However where were the previous psychiatric reports? Why wasn't he already committed. He was in prison.

    They knew 4 years ago when he was in court, infront of the same judge as today, that he had mental and psychological issues, and probably others knew longer than that.


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    #87
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Xenji wrote: »
    They knew 4 years ago when he was in court, infront of the same judge as today, that he had mental and psychological issues, and probably others knew longer than that.

    The system failed him, but more importantly failed the 2 brothers :(


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    #88
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    Ah. Old hippy. Good man. Nothing to see here is there? Just nasty old right wingers getting upset at the battering of two innocent old men while you remain frosty, indifferent and liberal; meanwhile the justice system is fine, the problem is we as a society not the perp, and isn't everybody except you a nasty right winger.

    Now. Having made your case for you can you leave?

    There's nothing wrong with being upset at this case but I find equally disturbing the bloodlust and dark sexual undertones which only serve a minority in satisfying their own dubious agenda.


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    #89
    yew_tree
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭yew_tree


    Life sentences should mean "Life" especially for serious crimes such as this from repeat nut case offenders.

    You can murder someone in Ireland and get 3 and half year sentence - see the murder of journalist Eugene Maloney. I agree turning a blind eye to petty crime can lead to more serious crimes when a young person gets older.

    Reading the Irish Indo today does not paint a pretty picture of Caslebar - A pakistani is shutting his shop to to an attack and contact thief after only being open three months!

    Local radio also reported problems with young people getting attacked and intimidated in the county town only a few months ago if I am not mistaken.


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    #90
    Xenji
    Registered Users Posts: 11,505 ✭✭✭✭Xenji


    yew_tree wrote: »
    Life sentences should mean "Life" especially for serious crimes such as this from repeat nut case offenders.

    You can murder someone in Ireland and get 3 and half year sentence - see the murder of journalist Eugene Maloney. I agree turning a blind eye to petty crime can lead to more serious crimes when a young person gets older.

    Reading the Irish Indo today does not paint a pretty picture of Caslebar - A pakistani is shutting his shop to to an attack and contact thief after only being open three months!

    Local radio also reported problems with young people getting attacked and intimidated in the county town only a few months ago if I am not mistaken.

    Yeah a lot of students around the secondary schools getting mugged and having knifes pulled on them, was on the paper as well, although the group involved have since left down as far as I recall, they were comprised of people who had been " relocated " here in town.


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    #91
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,803 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Xenji wrote: »
    So yeah we need far more severe punishments for people and instill in them the notion that if you do a crime you will be punished, and if that does not work then what will.
    Sure: we should have the death penalty, like the USA. Then we'd have zero crime, like the USA.


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