Abortion Discussion

mbiking123

Happens in Ireland too

'
The consultant who wrongly told an expectant mother that her unborn child was dead has defended his handling of her case, insisting he has ‘no regrets’ about how he did his job.
Galway-based gynaecologist Dr Declan Egan refused to apologise for almost killing Aaron O’Neill Brennan in the womb when he wrongly told Aaron’s mother, Martha O’Neill Brennan, that her pregnancy had ended in miscarriage


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1286226/Surgeon-linked-major-childbirth-negligence-cases-regrets.html#ixzz2kl44qkvt

lazygal

mbiking123 wrote: »

no scaremongering. truth - You want to play God

How do you know for 100% sure the child will not survive

one mistake is too many

read the links, whatever about lying to me don't lie to yourself

God, eh?!

What lies have I told?


Have you had scans during pregnancy? Do you know how detailed they are nowadays? If the life support machine can be turned off for a born person why not for a foetus?

Cabaal

mbiking123 wrote: »

no scaremongering. truth - You want to play God

How do you know for 100% sure the child will not survive

one mistake is too many

read the links, whatever about lying to me don't lie to yourself

Ok,
Women has a 3d scan the scan ckearly shows the entire part of the skull of the fetus where the brain should be is missing, in addition so is the brain stem.

It wont ever live, its not just brain dead it has no brain, the only thing keeping it going is the mother.

You propose the mother to carry it to term and give birth?

mbiking123

Cabaal wrote: »

Ok,
Women has a 3d scan the scan ckearly shows the entire part of the skull of the fetus where the brain should be is missing, in addition so is the brain stem.

It wont ever live, its not just brain dead it has no brain, the only thing keeping it going is the mother.

You propose the mother to carry it to term and give birth?

So what happens if the scan is wrong like in the examples I gave

You ever see those 3d scans ! not near as good as I thought they would be in fact seriously overrated !

Bannasidhe

mbiking123 wrote: »

So what happens if the scan is wrong like in the examples I gave

You ever see those 3d scans ! not near as good as I thought they would be in fact seriously overrated !

Once again (I'll highlight it in case you missed it all the other times it was asked:

Why is it ok to turn off life support machines?

If as you insist medics can get it so wrong then surely where there is 'life' there is hope?

mbiking123

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Once again (I'll highlight it in case you missed it all the other times it was asked:

Why is it ok to turn off life support machines?

If as you insist medics can get it so wrong then surely where there is 'life' there is hope?

I answered it

Bannasidhe

mbiking123 wrote: »

I answered it

Please refresh my memory if you would be so kind - I must have missed it among all of those links to the Daily Fascist.

mbiking123

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Please refresh my memory if you would be so kind - I must have missed it among all of those links to the Daily Fascist.

Well if you don't accept the evidence then what's the point

Delirium

mbiking123 wrote: »

I answered it

no, you didn't. Banna asked you. you didn't respond. you were asked again, and you responded with the above.

Bannasidhe

mbiking123 wrote: »

Well if you don't accept the evidence then what's the point

Well for a start it would show you answered me and then I would apologise for re-asking you.

lazygal

mbiking123 wrote: »

So what happens if the scan is wrong like in the examples I gave

You ever see those 3d scans ! not near as good as I thought they would be in fact seriously overrated !

What if the scans are right?

Obliq

Davelarson wrote: »

I believe the right to life trumps the right to choose. I believe abortion should be allowed in cases of rape and where there is a risk to the mothers life.

Where'd this guy go? I love this guy! He manages to contradict his own whole argument in just two sentences and then has the decency to go away. Can't we get him back?

Dave, where are you? I have to tell you where you shot down your own belief.......c'mon, you know you want to hear this. It's for your own good (and possibly the good of all womankind too :cool: )

mbiking123

Obliq wrote: »

Where'd this guy go? I love this guy! He manages to contradict his own whole argument in just two sentences and then has the decency to go away. Can't we get him back?

Dave, where are you? I have to tell you where you shot down your own belief.......c'mon, you know you want to hear this. It's for your own good (and possibly the good of all womankind too :cool: )

Some pro-abortioner said something like 'He is at an abortion clinic with an AK-47, to prove he is a pro-lifer'

Bannasidhe

mbiking123 wrote: »

Some pro-abortioner said something like 'He is at an abortion clinic with an AK-47, to prove he is a pro-lifer'

Are you seeing posts I'm not?

Where did someone say something like that?

You might also tell me where you answered my question re: turning off life support as I can't seem to find that either...

Obliq

mbiking123 wrote: »

Some pro-abortioner said something like 'He is at an abortion clinic with an AK-47, to prove he is a pro-lifer'

Hmm. Missed all that. I just assumed he'd just been drowned out by your "one mistake is too many" drivel.

Obliq

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Are you seeing posts I'm not?

Where did someone say something like that?

Yes, confused too. I thought I was missing something, but clearly not. Why do you think mbiking doesn't want to answer your question Banna? Is he aiming for a JC style record of obfuscation on a grand scale?

Bannasidhe

Obliq wrote: »

Hmm. Missed all that. I just assumed he'd just been drowned out by your "one mistake is too many" drivel.

Welcome back from the Land Down Under. Missed ya.

Obliq

Thank you petal. Yes, I came back voluntarily before being put on a plane was suggested in blunt Oz fashion. Bloody hell, they're not shy about their bigottry down under, are they? :eek:

Anyhows....mbking, why oh why won't you answer one of the hard questions put to you? Preferably Bann's, since she's here now.

Bannasidhe

Obliq wrote: »

Yes, confused too. I thought I was missing something, but clearly not. Why do you think mbiking doesn't want to answer your question Banna? Is he aiming for a JC style record of obfuscation on a grand scale?

Wild guess but perhaps he has seen the inconsistency of the so-called pro-life positions.

'life' is 'sacred' and must be preserved.

This means that feotus' which are incapable of sentience must be carried to term as they may be able to take a breathe and therefore 'live' even if that 'life' is short - the fact that they are 'alive' is what matters.

Surely people on life support fit the same criteria ...they may regain consciousness but as brain function doesn't seem to matter when it comes to feotus' why should it matter in the case of the already born but brain dead?

Yet - there appears to be no campaign aimed at protecting their lives.

Bannasidhe

Obliq wrote: »

Thank you petal. Yes, I came back voluntarily before being put on a plane was suggested in blunt Oz fashion. Bloody hell, they're not shy about their bigottry down under, are they? :eek:

Two years living Down There - learned on day one that any sentence that began with 'I'm not a racist but...' was followed by something anti- Asian. Anti-Native Australian comments seemed to require no such qualification and were just boldly stated straight out. Much like Anti-Traveller/Roma comments in these here parts.

Anyhows....mbking, why oh why won't you answer one of the hard questions put to you? Preferably Bann's, since she's here now.

Or at least show Bann where you answered the question since you insist you did....

Obliq

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Wild guess but perhaps he has seen the inconsistency of the so-called pro-life positions.

'life' is 'sacred' and must be preserved.

This means that feotus' which are incapable of sentience must be carried to term as they may be able to take a breathe and therefore 'live' even if that 'life' is short - the fact that they are 'alive' is what matters.

Surely people on life support fit the same criteria ...they may regain consciousness but as brain function doesn't seem to matter when it comes to feotus' why should it matter in the case of the already born but brain dead?

Yet - there appears to be no campaign aimed at protecting their lives.

Ah no Ted, that's too wild. Yes, every life is sacred and therefore killing can never be justified, isn't that right mbiking? Never, never, never......except in war maybe, or self defence. Or if someone is brain dead already.....or in some other instance where mbking decides it's acceptable. Not nice, but acceptable. Because I signed up to let mbking make decisions for me. Oh no, wait.....what? :eek:

Cabaal

mbiking123, since you see a fetus as so important,
Ok your in a room and there is one baby on one side of the room and a 10 week old fetus on the other side of the room, the fetus might be able to be cared for outside of the womb by doctors (as much "might" as you like to use when i said a fetus had no brain stem but you said it might live and that doctors might be wrong).

You can only save one from a quickly approaching fire, which one do you save?

In your one view both are equal,

mbiking123

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You might also tell me where you answered my question re: turning off life support as I can't seem to find that either...

Well this is a good example

'Baby whose life support was switched off for 20 MINUTES stuns doctors by continuing to breathe...and goes on to make an amazing recovery

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2383216/Baby-life-support-switched-20-MINUTES-stuns-doctors-continuing-breathe--goes-make-amazing-recovery.html#ixzz2kp56wH96

How can anyone make that call ?

Delirium

are you going to avoid the questions and post links indefinitely?

mbiking123

koth wrote: »

are you going to avoid the questions and post links indefinitely?

Please read the last line

Turtwig

Mbiking this is bordering tedious soapboxing at this stage. This is a place for discussion not megaphones.

Bannasidhe

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You might also tell me where you answered my question re: turning off life support as I can't seem to find that either...

mbiking123 wrote: »

Well this is a good example

'Baby whose life support was switched off for 20 MINUTES stuns doctors by continuing to breathe...and goes on to make an amazing recovery

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2383216/Baby-life-support-switched-20-MINUTES-stuns-doctors-continuing-breathe--goes-make-amazing-recovery.html#ixzz2kp56wH96

How can anyone make that call ?

A) That does not answer my original question.
That does not show me where you did answer my original question as you have claimed to have done.

Delirium

mbiking123 wrote: »

Please read the last line

yes I saw that. It's not an answer. It's a question.

would you like to answer the question Banna put to you regarding turning off life support machines?

mbiking123

Jernal wrote: »

Mbiking this is bordering tedious soapboxing at this stage. This is a place for discussion not megaphones.

Ok, here is my answer - How can anyone make that call - as in any person

mbiking123

koth wrote: »

yes I saw that. It's not an answer. It's a question.

would you like to answer the question Banna put to you regarding turning off life support machines?

Ok nobody can make that call