Abortion Discussion

Phill Ewinn

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

You're posting something from Der Sturmer (motto: Nothing Knowingly True Printed on these Pages!) and you expect us to take you seriously?

I am also posting on a forum filled with liberal clap-trap. Should I take anyone here seriously, to use your yardstick?

I presume you can use google like the rest of us. The push to shorten the abortion window in the UK is covered in many papers.

rainbow kirby

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

The rates of health and survival are growing. Not uncommon to see normal healthy children born at 20 weeks.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-511626/Survival-rate-soars-babies-born-early--fuelling-debate-abortion-limits.html

Considering that the earliest surviving preterm infants were born at 21+5 it's clear that you're talking complete and utter crap.

gaynorvader

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

The rates of health and survival are growing. Not uncommon to see normal healthy children born at 20 weeks.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-511626/Survival-rate-soars-babies-born-early--fuelling-debate-abortion-limits.html

Same study, opposite conclusion. Think Daily Mail is talking out of its back end again.

_rebelkid

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

The rates of health and survival are growing. Not uncommon to see normal healthy children born at 20 weeks.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-511626/Survival-rate-soars-babies-born-early--fuelling-debate-abortion-limits.html

Not uncommon? Even the Daily Mail wasn't mad enough to say that, mostly because the study doesn't say that either.

As has been pointed out, 9/100 babies born at 23 weeks survive with no major impact on quality of life. The next 20 survive with limited quality of life ranging from limited movement of a hand to paralysis and Cerebral Palsy. The rest die within a month, with the majority dying less than 5 days after birth.

The point where early birth survival starts to increase is around 25/26 weeks. That is where there is a proper chance of survival without impact for the near majority of births. Even with that, the sheer amount of resources that go into ensuring survival is enormous. And in many cases, it's totally deserved. But in countries like the Netherlands, they're spending less and less on trying to help babies born before 30 weeks survive. The medical consensus there is that they put more money in preventing the situation from happening. So Pro-Life people are happy that they're trying to reduce abortion, and Pro-choice people are happy because abortion is an option.

H3aler

A generation that dies inside bellies at the altar of our desires, how could that be sane. What is point to kill babies who have done nothing to hide our crimes

Obliq

H3aler wrote: »

A generation that dies inside bellies at the altar of our desires, how could that be sane. What is point to kill babies who have done nothing to hide our crimes

I was about to say that I hope you managed to sleep off that last drink ok, but I must add a congratulations as well. That is a runner for the best sentimental pro-life post for a loooong time.

We usually only get the "but...but the tiny babee, you killing de babee with der tiny feet an all", but yours is DEEP man! Cheered up my morning no end. Babies dying inside our bellies at the alter of our desires, eh? Well, last night I killed a couple of smokes and one rather nice IPA from Kinsale at the alter of my desires, but the fella wasn't over. I promise you we'll get right on to the baby killing during the week - it sounds so POETIC! How exciting. I do love a project.

Pherekydes

H3aler wrote: »

A generation that dies inside bellies at the altar of our desires, how could that be sane. What is point to kill babies who have done nothing to hide our crimes

You'll have to ask god that, because the greatest majority of abortions are spontaneous.

Obliq

Damn, should have looked at H3aler's other 4 posts before leaping in. Sarcasm often wasted on the extremely holy

H3aler

dear obliq and Pherekydes, what if someone has wasted you inside her bellies, you woud have never been existed on the thread of existence. Is that right, there is no need to kill babies-- Give every baby a chance to live life -- Don't do such acts which makes you to kill tiny babies-- How cruel is that-- We are human, human don't kill babies

Obliq

H3aler wrote: »

dear obliq and Pherekydes, what if someone has wasted you inside her bellies, you woud have never been existed on the thread of existence. Is that right, there is no need to kill babies-- Give every baby a chance to live life -- Don't do such acts which makes you to kill tiny babies-- How cruel is that-- We are human, human don't kill babies

Dear H3aler - that's nature, that is.

We are here speaking to each other due to chance. There was a chance that I might have been spontaneously miscarried, but I wasn't, but possibly 10's or 100's of my potential brothers and sisters may have been.

There was a chance that my mother might not have wanted to be pregnant (for whatever reason) and might have obtained an abortion, in which case I would not be speaking to you now. Chance, however, enabled me to be born. Chance enabled me to have full use of my limbs, chance gave me a (semi) functional mind with which I can answer you.

There are enough "tiny babies". Not all of the ones conceived will (or should) have the chance to live. It is pointless to be so sentimental about an act of will that directly mirrors an extremely common act of nature. Do you spend your life mourning all the babies that died before birth? No? Neither do I.

H3aler

Dear Obliq
we human have created all these cruel chances for our own satisfication/regret- alrlight, let say it is a chance -- why don't you take the good side of chance-- The chance of saving instead of killing tiny cute babies-- Why do you prefer killing or violence-- to hide something which you have done for your desires-- Let us not do something that will make us to take growing life inside us -- There is also a chance you could have kill shakespear inside and in the next chance a hilter come, destroyer of humanity

Obliq

H3aler wrote: »

Dear Obliq
we human have created all these cruel chances for our own satisfication/regret- alrlight, let say it is a chance -- why don't you take the good side of chance-- The chance of saving instead of killing tiny cute babies-- Why do you prefer killing or violence-- to hide something which you have done for your desires-- Let us not do something that will make us to take growing life inside us

What on earth makes you think I prefer killing or violence over having children? I have 2 sons, by choice. In other words, I had the choice to decide if it was a good time to have children, and so clearly, I chose for them to have the chance of life. However, if I got pregnant now, I would definitely choose NOT to continue the pregnancy and yes, KILL the tiny cute baby.

We humans have taken growing animal lives wherever we find them, and killed them for food. We even manipulate and organise lives of animals to supply our food chain - we are the most selfish animals on earth. Why are you so sentimental about humans?

And by the way, my desires are my business and I manage very well (through using contraception) not to have any further products of my sexual desire. I am not "hiding" anything that I haven't created yet. As I said though, I would choose an abortion if I got pregnant now, as I have no intention of being pregnant now. Do you think you are more moral than me?

Obliq

Shakespeare and Hitler are not good arguments to make H3aler. There are such people in every walk of life, in every generation, everywhere in the world. All these people are BORN already, but it is the chances that their lives encounter that enable them to become the kinds of people they were. There maybe a small child soldier in the Congo who, if she had been given the chance, would become the most incredibly insightful writer and philosopher the world has ever known. Using this argument against abortion is invalid.

H3aler

Dear sis Obliq, abortion is not language of peace, it is a lanaguage of violance, your argument in favor of abortion are making you supporter of violence-- Let the mother nature desides what is good for you and what bad for you, you should interfer in the course of nature by using unnatural means -- Abortation has so many negative effect on society-- For example people do it for their desires and they waste their youth on these immoral act instead of have babies and families--

Shakespear is god gifted person no human could reach his state, what if her mother had killed him inside her belly by deciding herself.. one shakespear less from human world, You couldnot produce people like shakespear with all of your resources.. It is very difficulte

lazygal

H3aler wrote: »

Dear Obliq
we human have created all these cruel chances for our own satisfication/regret- alrlight, let say it is a chance -- why don't you take the good side of chance-- The chance of saving instead of killing tiny cute babies-- Why do you prefer killing or violence-- to hide something which you have done for your desires-- Let us not do something that will make us to take growing life inside us -- There is also a chance you could have kill shakespear inside and in the next chance a hilter come, destroyer of humanity

Why aren't you hand wringing over nature, the world's most prolific abortion provider?

H3aler

lazygal wrote: »

Why aren't you hand wringing over nature, the world's most prolific abortion provider?

It is not good to blame mother nature for our crimes, mother nature doesn't ask us to kill babies, we kill them by attacking nature. Mother nature has its own way to take revenge for altering her-- How cruel we human have been, we are defending violence for our own good and justying our bads in the name of nature--

Delirium

H3aler wrote: »

It is not good to blame mother nature for our crimes, mother nature doesn't ask us to kill babies, we kill them by attacking nature. Mother nature has its own way to take vegance for altering her-- How cruel we human have been, we are defending violence for our own good and justying our bads in the name of nature--

why should a woman be forced to carry a foetus with fatal foetal abnormalities to term? How is that not also a cruelty?

lazygal

H3aler wrote: »

It is not good to blame mother nature for our crimes, mother nature doesn't ask us to kill babies, we kill them by attacking nature. Mother nature has its own way to take revenge for altering her-- How cruel we human have been, we are defending violence for our own good and justying our bads in the name of nature--

So if nature does an abortion it's ok but if medical professionals do an abortion it's a crime. Why?

PopePalpatine

H3aler wrote: »

It is not good to blame mother nature for our crimes, mother nature doesn't ask us to kill babies, we kill them by attacking nature. Mother nature has its own way to take revenge for altering her-- How cruel we human have been, we are defending violence for our own good and justying our bads in the name of nature--

Are you even aware of the percentage of pregnancies which end in miscarriage?

Thank f*ck you're not a doctor.

Brian Shanahan

H3aler wrote: »

A generation that dies inside bellies at the altar of our desires, how could that be sane. What is point to kill babies who have done nothing to hide our crimes

The following image is the only sane response to your post:


If you really want to stop the evils of the world today, I suggest you look, instead of to abortion, to the leaders of the movements behind the moves to ban it. They are without exception some of the most vicious, hate filled, murderous and evil people the world has seen.

H3aler

SW wrote: »

why should a woman be forced to carry a foetus with fatal foetal abnormalities to term? How is that not also a cruelty?

This is law of nature, you can't change but i got to tell you--to have babies, it makes womanhood of women complete, It is no cruelity, I know a female who could not have babies because of some disease, she weeps all the times for babies, She says, she can give her life for children-- but it is mother nature deciding her fate-- Even all the doctors could not help her to have babies--Children the most presious gift of God, we should not kill them when mother nature is giving us as many she wants-- The cruelty is killing these gems inside our us and pluck these flowers from page of existence.

Delirium

H3aler wrote: »

This is law of nature, you can't change but i got to tell you--to have babies, it makes womanhood of women complete, It is no cruelity, I know a female who could not have babies because of some disease, she weeps all the times for babies, She says, she can give her life for children-- but it is mother nature deciding her fate-- Even all the doctors could not help her to have babies--Children the most presious gift of God, we should not kill them when mother nature is giving us as many she wants-- The cruelty is killing these gems inside our us and pluck these flowers from page of existence.

So you don't view it as a cruelty? Are you truly that devoid of empathy for women?

H3aler

lazygal wrote: »

So if nature does an abortion it's ok but if medical professionals do an abortion it's a crime. Why?

becuase you decided it-- It is same as killing someone using bullets and there are people who die as natural death with diseases-- The people who die with disease that is nature killing but when you decide to kill some one, you are taking blood on your hand

lazygal

H3aler wrote: »

becuase you decided it-- It is same as killing someone using bullets and there are people who die as natural death with diseases-- The people who die with disease that is nature killing but when you decide to kill some one, you are taking blood on your hand

If a baby won't live outside the uterus how is abortion killing anything?

rainbow kirby

H3aler wrote: »

Children the most presious gift of God

I suggest you check again what forum you're in. :pac:

H3aler

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Are you even aware of the percentage of pregnancies which end in miscarriage?

Thank f*ck you're not a doctor.

A miscarriage is the natural death of an unborn human-- It is like a valcano errupting and killing all the people near it--- but how could you compare a miscarriage with abortion-- miscarriage is very different thing than abortion-- Abortion is based on your desision to kill someone while miscarriage is the natural death-- Abortion is cruelty-- I hope you understand the difference between the two-- natural acts and unatural acts-- killing someone with you own hands that is inhuman

PopePalpatine

H3aler, what do you feel about a woman dying during pregnancy when they could have had an abortion?

H3aler

SW wrote: »

So you don't view it as a cruelty? Are you truly that devoid of empathy for women?

do you see babies who don't have legs, arms when they are born, do you see babies who don't have heart when they are born , Is that cruelty, if it is then who -- do you blame, is it justification abortion-- Nature is nature, you can't justify your wrong in the pretext of nature

Delirium

H3aler wrote: »

do you see babies who don't have legs, arms when they are born, do you see babies who don't have heart when they are born , Is that cruelty, if it is then who -- do you blame, is it justification abortion-- Nature is nature, you can't justify your wrong in the pretext of nature

I consider bringing a foetus without a heart to term to be incredibly cruel. How can it be expected to survive outside the womb without a circulatory system?

H3aler

PopePalpatine wrote: »

H3aler, what do you feel about a woman dying during pregnancy when they could have had an abortion?

no one knows that who is going to die next moment--- If people know of their death-- there would be no babies in the world,-- This is course of nature-- I feel sad for the women but could you tell me how it justfies abortion--