Abortion Discussion

Bannasidhe

H3aler wrote: »

let me ask you simple question-- What is purpose of abortion-- include postive and negative sides-- how many babies an average woman can give birth-- -- Woman producing babies are very healthy and have chance to live a long life-- What is need to kill babies--- and damage your self using drugs/medicine that have negative effective on your health-- can any one shed light on this issue

Tell that to all the millions of women and girls who have died 'having babies'.

You can start with Anne Lovett. She died alone on 31 January 1984 having a baby.

You can then move on to the women and girls who die due to severe bleeding/haemorrhage , infections , unsafe abortions , eclampsia , obstructed labour ), other direct causes , and indirect causes . Indirect causes are malaria, anaemia,[3] HIV/AIDS, and cardiovascular disease, all of which may complicate pregnancy or be aggravated by it.

Maternal Deaths 2010:


The annual number of female deaths per 100,000 live births from any cause related to or aggravated by pregnancy or its management (excluding accidental or incidental causes). The MMR includes deaths during pregnancy, childbirth, or within 42 days of termination of pregnancy, irrespective of the duration and site of the pregnancy, for a specified year

Please think before you post nonsense.

Morag

H3aler wrote: »

let me ask you simple question-- What is purpose of abortion-- include postive and negative sides-- how many babies an average woman can give birth-- -- Woman producing babies are very healthy and have chance to live a long life-- What is need to kill babies--- and damage your self using drugs/medicine that have negative effective on your health-- can any one shed light on this issue

What about the damage that pregnancy and birth can to do a woman?
Esp multiple pregnancies?
What about women who get told they should not have any more pregnancies for the sake of their health?


Early medical abortion with in the first 9 weeks of pregnancy is 10 times safer then giving birth.



http://www.abortionrightscampaign.ie/2014/03/07/myth-7-abortion-causesincreases-the-risk-of-infertility/

mickrock

From an evolutionary perspective it's all fine, whether it's women dying in childbirth or women having abortions.

In the long run it's all for the good of the species.

If we're just biological robots in an unintelligent universe there's probably little point in getting all hot and bothered about it anyway.

robindch

mickrock wrote: »

From an evolutionary perspective it's all fine, whether it's women dying in childbirth or women having abortions. [...] If we're just biological robots in an unintelligent universe there's probably little point in getting all hot and bothered about it anyway.

Creationism and related crap goes into the forum bin here.

H3aler

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Tell that to all the millions of women and girls who have died 'having babies'.

You can start with Anne Lovett. She died alone on 31 January 1984 having a baby.

You can then move on to the women and girls who die due to severe bleeding/haemorrhage , infections , unsafe abortions , eclampsia , obstructed labour ), other direct causes , and indirect causes . Indirect causes are malaria, anaemia,[3] HIV/AIDS, and cardiovascular disease, all of which may complicate pregnancy or be aggravated by it.

Maternal Deaths 2010:


The annual number of female deaths per 100,000 live births from any cause related to or aggravated by pregnancy or its management (excluding accidental or incidental causes). The MMR includes deaths during pregnancy, childbirth, or within 42 days of termination of pregnancy, irrespective of the duration and site of the pregnancy, for a specified year

Please think before you post nonsense.

I don't believe in these imaginary stats, i believe what i see, Let me tell you about my circle and relations, my grand mother died at the age 90, she never had abortion in her all life, she had two sons and one daughter, and some other of my relatives they never had abortion average age of woman around my family is 80 plus-- What is average of woman in your society with abortions and all kind of unnatural things-- These medinices have negative effect on life, baby producing woman have long chance to live if they are healthy, if dont use drugs/medicine

lazygal

H3aler wrote: »

I don't believe in these imaginary stats, i believe what i see, Let me tell you about my circle and relations, my grand mother died at the age 90, she never had abortion in her all life, she had two sons and one daughter, and some other of my relatives they never had abortion average age of woman around my family is 80 plus-- What is average of woman in your society with abortions and all kind of unnatural things-- These medinices have negative effect on life, baby producing woman have long chance to live if they are healthy, if dont use drugs/medicine

Chemo is unnatural too. If it had been around in the 1950s my father's father wouldn't have died from what is today a very treatable cancer.

How do you know none of the women in your circle has never had an abortion? Maybe they don't want to tell you about it because its none of your business. And pregnant and postpartum women are susceptible to all kinds of dangers directly related to pregnancy, birth and the aftermath.

eviltwin

H3aler wrote: »

I don't believe in these imaginary stats, i believe what i see, Let me tell you about my circle and relations, my grand mother died at the age 90, she never had abortion in her all life, she had two sons and one daughter, and some other of my relatives they never had abortion average age of woman around my family is 80 plus-- What is average of woman in your society with abortions and all kind of unnatural things-- These medinices have negative effect on life, baby producing woman have long chance to live if they are healthy, if dont use drugs/medicine

Unless you personally know every woman with a story to tell of how pregnancy affected her then you do have to go on stats, they are all you can go on. I'd much rather take the word of a trusted organisation that has done research into the area of women's reproductive health than listen to anecdotes about your granny.

H3aler

_rebelkid wrote: »

Quite a lot of women choose not to have children. They live happy and fulfilled lives and are no less of a woman than any mother.

what kind of women choose not to have children, i have friend, she has some kind of disease, she could not able produce babies, she weeps all the time for baby, she says children will make her perfect. I have never met a single woman in my whole life who don't want to have children-- Every woman like to have children. It is natural

Bannasidhe

H3aler wrote: »

I don't believe in these imaginary stats, i believe what i see, Let me tell you about my circle and relations, my grand mother died at the age 90, she never had abortion in her all life, she had two sons and one daughter, and some other of my relatives they never had abortion average age of woman around my family is 80 plus-- What is average of woman in your society with abortions and all kind of unnatural things-- These medinices have negative effect on life, baby producing woman have long chance to live if they are healthy, if dont use drugs/medicine

Yet here you are on the internet using 'things you can't see' ...funny that...

Delirium

H3aler wrote: »

I don't believe in these imaginary stats, i believe what i see, Let me tell you about my circle and relations, my grand mother died at the age 90, she never had abortion in her all life, she had two sons and one daughter, and some other of my relatives they never had abortion average age of woman around my family is 80 plus-- What is average of woman in your society with abortions and all kind of unnatural things-- These medinices have negative effect on life, baby producing woman have long chance to live if they are healthy, if dont use drugs/medicine

If you're going to suggest that a poster is posting inaccurate stats, the least you can do is post the correct stats.

Your suggestion that having a baby will give an average life expectancy of 80 is just bonkers btw. Women die in childbirth being one glaring example that shows how stupid your suggestion is.

btw, average life expectancy for women in Ireland is 83.6 and Pakistan is 68. (Poster claims to be from Pakistan.)

Bannasidhe

H3aler wrote: »

I don't believe in these imaginary stats, i believe what i see, Let me tell you about my circle and relations, my grand mother died at the age 90, she never had abortion in her all life, she had two sons and one daughter, and some other of my relatives they never had abortion average age of woman around my family is 80 plus-- What is average of woman in your society with abortions and all kind of unnatural things-- These medinices have negative effect on life, baby producing woman have long chance to live if they are healthy, if dont use drugs/medicine

H3aler wrote: »

what kind of women choose not to have children, i have friend, she has some kind of disease, she could not able produce babies, she weeps all the time for baby, she says children will make her perfect. I have never met a single woman in my whole life who don't want to have children-- Every woman like to have children. It is natural

'Their lives ran in circles so small, they thought they'd seen it all'. Michelle Shocked.

rainbow kirby

H3aler wrote: »

I have never met a single woman in my whole life who don't want to have children-- Every woman like to have children. It is natural

There are plenty of childfree women out there, you just haven't met one.

eviltwin

H3aler wrote: »

what kind of women choose not to have children, i have friend, she has some kind of disease, she could not able produce babies, she weeps all the time for baby, she says children will make her perfect. I have never met a single woman in my whole life who don't want to have children-- Every woman like to have children. It is natural

You need to get out more mate. Plenty of women and men don't want kids, nothing wrong with that, there is nothing to be gained by people having children they would rather not have. Raising a family is a big responsibility, its not something anyone should do unless they are totally committed to it.

Bannasidhe

lazygal wrote: »

Chemo is unnatural too. If it had been around in the 1950s my father's father wouldn't have died from what is today a very treatable cancer.

How do you know none of the women in your circle has never had an abortion? Maybe they don't want to tell you about it because its none of your business. And pregnant and postpartum women are susceptible to all kinds of dangers directly related to pregnancy, birth and the aftermath.

My grandfather wouldn't have died aged 55 in 1963 if they had been able to perform a by-pass..by all accounts he was a very nice man. I would have liked to have met him.

gaynorvader

H3aler wrote: »

I don't believe in these imaginary stats, i believe what i see, Let me tell you about my circle and relations, my grand mother died at the age 90, she never had abortion in her all life, she had two sons and one daughter, and some other of my relatives they never had abortion average age of woman around my family is 80 plus-- What is average of woman in your society with abortions and all kind of unnatural things-- These medinices have negative effect on life, baby producing woman have long chance to live if they are healthy, if dont use drugs/medicine

I don't believe in this imaginary tale, I beleive what I see. My granny had 13 abortions and lived to be 102, my grandfather had no abortions and died at 61. Clearly abortions are good for you.

Cabaal

H3aler wrote: »

I don't believe in these imaginary stats, i believe what i see, Let me tell you about my circle and relations, my grand mother died at the age 90, she never had abortion in her all life, she had two sons and one daughter, and some other of my relatives they never had abortion average age of woman around my family is 80 plus-- What is average of woman in your society with abortions and all kind of unnatural things--

These medinices have negative effect on life, baby producing woman have long chance to live if they are healthy, if dont use drugs/medicine

So science amd medicine is shortening people's lives now?
:rolleyes:

Maybe you should tell that to all the people that died from Polio before it was wiped out in Ireland,

Maybe you should also tell it to all the familys who lost children during and after childbirth prior to improvements to healthcare that reduced infact mortality.

Off hand I know my dad's mother lost one child, my dad tells me this was perfectly normal back then for a women to loose atleast one child........your grandmother likely did (most opf course didn't talk about it) and if she didn't she certainly knew many people that did.

Now of course thanks to science and medicine improvements these deaths are reduced massively and its rare for a child or for that matter the mother to die, but if there is a risk of a mother dieing then her life goes ahead of any unborn in my view.

Finally, maybe you should tell it to all the people that have survived cancer thanks to science.

Just to add
http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=20179

Average Life expectancy for Irish men is currently 76.8 years while it is 81.6 years for women. This compares to 64.5 and 67.1 years respectively 60 years ago.

Yep, clearly people are ;living shorter lives on average these days,
:rolleyes:

old hippy

H3aler wrote: »

so you don't have family-- son or daughters-- why they don't have interest in building a family and relation--


I am here on the sides of babies, you are on the other side..so consider me as a baby

Er, I don't have children, that's probably why said non existent children have no interest in building a family

You may well be on the side of babies but nobody here is advocating killing babies.

old hippy

H3aler wrote: »

This is law of nature, you can't change but i got to tell you--to have babies, it makes womanhood of women complete, It is no cruelity, I know a female who could not have babies because of some disease, she weeps all the times for babies, She says, she can give her life for children-- but it is mother nature deciding her fate-- Even all the doctors could not help her to have babies--Children the most presious gift of God, we should not kill them when mother nature is giving us as many she wants-- The cruelty is killing these gems inside our us and pluck these flowers from page of existence.

H3aler wrote: »

what kind of women choose not to have children, i have friend, she has some kind of disease, she could not able produce babies, she weeps all the time for baby, she says children will make her perfect. I have never met a single woman in my whole life who don't want to have children-- Every woman like to have children. It is natural

No, not every woman wants a child and many women consider themselves "complete" without having to be baby machines.

I'm sorry but your friend obviously has other issues, what with this constant weeping.

_rebelkid

H3aler wrote: »

what kind of women choose not to have children, i have friend, she has some kind of disease, she could not able produce babies, she weeps all the time for baby, she says children will make her perfect. I have never met a single woman in my whole life who don't want to have children-- Every woman like to have children. It is natural

Some women just don't want children; it's not the way they're wired. Families like old hippys' are perfectly normal and ARE families.

A woman's life is not a birthing contract. Yes, they are the only one of our species that can give birth, but that does not mean they're obliged to. All women choose to have kids, whether the pregnancy was expected or not. If it was not planned, they will choose to keep it, or they don't. And if they want it, well they want it. End of. Just because women CAN give birth doesn't mean they HAVE to.

shruikan2553

After the reading the last few pages I find it amazing how some people think. Its times like these I wished I did psychology.

Piliger

shruikan2553 wrote: »

After the reading the last few pages I find it amazing how some people think. Its times like these I wished I did psychology.

Oh no. it would only depress you. We still have a huge % of people who never learned to think on their own, without leaning on religion to do it for them.

Phill Ewinn

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Considering that the earliest surviving preterm infants were born at 21+5 it's clear that you're talking complete and utter crap.

People dont turn up at hospitals and clinics knowing exactly how many weeks old the feteous is. The push for a 20 week limit in the US reflects this situation. Taking a vialble life at whatever stage is barbaric if unnecessary.

Phill Ewinn

Piliger wrote: »

Oh no. it would only depress you. We still have a huge % of people who never learned to think on their own, without leaning on religion to do it for them.

Theres lobby groups on each side of the debate. I doubt any of us are uninfluenced in our decisions.

shruikan2553

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

Theres lobby groups on each side of the debate. I doubt any of us are uninfluenced in our decisions.

Most influence with facts while some lobby groups tend to have very little reasoning or what reasoning they do have is irrelevant. ie, having children being important for all women or marriage is for children.

Piliger

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

Theres lobby groups on each side of the debate. I doubt any of us are uninfluenced in our decisions.

Yes, but not dependent or controlled.

Bannasidhe

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

People dont turn up at hospitals and clinics knowing exactly how many weeks old the feteous is. The push for a 20 week limit in the US reflects this situation. Taking a vialble life at whatever stage is barbaric if unnecessary.

Phill - I have been very busy last few days so I may have missed your answer to my question. Can't seem to find it....

lazygal

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

People dont turn up at hospitals and clinics knowing exactly how many weeks old the feteous is. The push for a 20 week limit in the US reflects this situation. Taking a vialble life at whatever stage is barbaric if unnecessary.

What about a non viable foetus?

rainbow kirby

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

People dont turn up at hospitals and clinics knowing exactly how many weeks old the feteous is.

Actually most people who get proper antenatal care do know, or know a close approximation - either dating from last period, or via a dating scan for those with an irregular cycle.

gaynorvader

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

{...} Taking a vialble life at whatever stage is barbaric if unnecessary.

Why do you think this?

PopePalpatine

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

Taking a vialble life at whatever stage is barbaric if unnecessary.

Is it unnecessary if the pregnancy "merely" threatens the woman's health rather than her life?