Abortion Discussion

gaynorvader

Cabaal wrote: »

I further backup my theory with the fact that my wife gets concerned anytime I say I want to grow a beard, I think she's scared I'll turn evil

It all makes perfect sense!

I have a beard and I don't even know how to be evil.

robindch

pauldla wrote: »

I'm wicked but I'm lazy.

The word you're grasping for is:

Velleity

Brian Shanahan

Cabaal wrote: »

I further backup my theory with the fact that my wife gets concerned anytime I say I want to grow a beard, I think she's scared I'll turn evil

It all makes perfect sense!

The only non-evil beardie I know of is Avery Brooks. But then again he's got the counterweight of being The Sisko on his side, so nothing could make him evil.

Lingua Franca

I'll not mention finding Avery Brooks' name cropping up regularly on "lists of celebrities who are assholes" recently, then.

gaynorvader

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

The only non-evil beardie I know of is Avery Brooks. But then again he's got the counterweight of being The Sisko on his side, so nothing could make him evil.

Bill Bailey, Bill Oddie, Bill Bryson? Maybe you can have a beard and not be evil if you're a Bill?

Richard Bingham

eviltwin wrote: »

The outcome of pregnancy is a child, a foetus/embryo is not a child. Many more of these 'children' are lost to natural terminations ie miscarriage but it seems they don't carry the same significance. Where is the moral outrage? Where is the insistence that government put money into saving the lives of these 'children'.

Why would we be outraged at natural death - Ireland has one of the best maternal mortality rates in the world?

eviltwin wrote: »

Implying Gosnell is representative of those who perform abortions is akin to saying Harold Shipman is a good representative of GP's. He was a killer who used the ILLEGAL clinic he ran to carry out his CRIMES.

His clinic wasn't illegal.

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Talking about Gosnell in the context of abortion is like referencing Harold Shipman when it comes to caring for the elderly.

No its not actually. The only commonality is that they were both killing human beings. You can't validly compare Shipman and Gosnell;

Shipman was supposed to be curing patients and he was instead killing (some) of them.

Gosnell was supposed to be aborting babies and he was instead killing them.

Its not a valid analogy at all.

magicbastarder

Richard Bingham wrote: »

Why would we be outraged at natural death - Ireland has one of the best maternal mortality rates in the world?

we don't. this has become a hoary old chestnut. ireland does not measure maternal mortality in the same way other countries do, so the figures quoted are not comparable.

magicbastarder

found this in a secondary schoolbook dating from about 2004. it's an argument in response to the 'women should have control over their own bodies' argument.

alaimacerc

magicbastarder wrote: »

found this in a secondary schoolbook dating from about 2004. it's an argument in response to the 'women should have control over their own bodies' argument.

*facepalm*

Was "2." any more in danger of troubling the logic scorers?

Richard Bingham

lazygal wrote: »

Nature is the most prolific serial killer in the history of the world. I don't see a clamor for a Hollywood movie on most abortions/terminations carried out by nature.

Its interesting that you mention that as I have seen numerous movies / television series where couples lost babies to miscarriage. I'm not going to even google this just to see if my recollection is correct (its a hell of a long time ago and to be honest I probably wasn't supposed to be watching Dallas at such a tender age) but I believe that the earliest one I can remember is when that guy Ray Crebbs and his wife on Dallas were pregnant. It was the usual roller coaster type plot. They were happy to be pregnant. Then they were told the baby had down syndrome. I honestly can't recall if the considered abortion, I think they did. Then they visited a home full of down syndrome kids and saw how great they were and were looking forward to the birth and then she miscarried. Don't shoot me if I'm wrong on this - I've chosen to be original and not draw on the internet for my post which is rare because as far as I can see either boards is frequented by the most educated demographic known to man or, everyone is googling stuff and representing themselves as an authority. I would say I've seen miss-carriage feature in tv / movie plots hundreds of times since. I don't watch them but surely its been featured in Eastenders/Corry?

Richard Bingham

oldrnwisr wrote: »

Firstly, if we look at induced labour abortion (listed in the stats under "feticide with a medical evacuation") we can see that there were just 436 such abortions out of a total of 189,931 in the UK in 2011 or just 0.2% of all abortions.

That's 436 too many for me (and quite a lot of people).

oldrnwisr wrote: »

As other posters have pointed out, Kermit Gosnell belongs in an abortion debate about as much as Harold Shipman belongs in a debate on elderly care.

I've addressed the problem with this analogy in an earlier post.

Richard Bingham

Obliq wrote: »

No, not adversarial, merely curious. I asked you do you have a problem with woman having an abortion for selfish reasons. You haven't answered. Still.

Sorry I initially thought it was more of rhetorical question. Then I had to go to work so I didn't get around to answering you. I'm back now and have a small amount of downtime so I'll answer.

I have of course got a problem that a human being must be killed so that this woman can be on Big Brother and so she can afford to drive a pink Range Rover (as she has stated).

Richard Bingham

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Well bud, what is not yet alive is not capable of being killed.

Not alive? Is it dead or undead or un-alive?

lazygal

Richard Bingham, how do you feel about the treatment of the miscarriage of pregnancy in Ireland? Should medical intervention be available for very early pregnancies rather than letting nature take its course? Should child benefit be paid from conception too?

alaimacerc

lazygal wrote: »

Should child benefit be paid from conception too?

Don't forget the Anchor Blastocysts, too. Passports at gastrulation!

lazygal

alaimacerc wrote: »

Don't forget the Anchor Blastocysts, too. Passports at gastrulation!

Well they're unborn children, no different to the born, according to some. So child benefit should date from conception.

alaimacerc

lazygal wrote: »

Well they're unborn children, no different to the born, according to some. So child benefit should date from conception.

Yes, I get that; I'm saying the same "logic" would also apply to citizenship, and so on, with as much validity (i.e. none), if the same some carried their thinking on through.

lazygal

Every sperm is sacred, etc, etc.

Pocoyo

Hi we seen the uproar the recent amendment caused could you imagine if they attempted to legislate for abortion on demand,I think ireland will never see the day, support for abortion is on the decline in the developed world. I think its time we invested in some condoms dont you?

Its your body protect it or dont have sex.

lazygal

Pocoyo wrote: »

Hi we seen the uproar the recent amendment caused could you imagine if they attempted to legislate for abortion on demand,I think ireland will never see the day, support for abortion is on the decline in the developed world. I think its time we invested in some condoms dont you?

Its your body protect it or dont have sex.

Citations? How does a rape victim protect her body? What about the pregnancies that threaten the lives of women? Throwing a load of condoms around isn't always 100% effective.

Pocoyo

lazygal wrote: »

Citations? How does a rape victim protect her body? What about the pregnancies that threaten the lives of women? Throwing a load of condoms around isn't always 100% effective.

Rape is tragic,Pregnancy can also be tragic for unwilling fathers,But these occur on such a small scale in comparison to abortion procedures that most people see those scenarios are the lesser evils when it comes to the abortion argument.

lazygal

Pocoyo wrote: »

Rape is tragic,Pregnancy can also be tragic for unwilling fathers,But these occur on such a small scale in comparison to abortion procedures that most people see those scenarios are the lesser evils when it comes to the abortion argument.

Wut?

Pocoyo

lazygal wrote: »

Wut?

Thats what i thought,

''You gotz nutn''

lazygal

Pocoyo wrote: »

Thats what i thought,

''You gotz nutn''

I don't understand your point about tragedy. Maybe you could elaborate.

Pocoyo

lazygal wrote: »

I don't understand your point about tragedy. Maybe you could elaborate.

You dont understand how rape can be tragic?

lazygal

Pocoyo wrote: »

Rape is tragic,Pregnancy can also be tragic for unwilling fathers,But these occur on such a small scale in comparison to abortion procedures that most people see those scenarios are the lesser evils when it comes to the abortion argument.

How is the scale of how often a tragedy occurs relevant?

Pocoyo

lazygal wrote: »

How is the scale of how often a tragedy occurs relevant?

Of course it is,And it always has been in every imaginable scenario throughout history.

The more often tragedy occurs the more relevant it becomes.

eviltwin

Pocoyo wrote: »

Hi we seen the uproar the recent amendment caused could you imagine if they attempted to legislate for abortion on demand,I think ireland will never see the day, support for abortion is on the decline in the developed world. I think its time we invested in some condoms dont you?

Its your body protect it or dont have sex.

my dad told me once we'd never have gay marriage, that the irish public wouldn't stand for it and now it's a very real possibility. things change,as more women go public with their abortion stories and people realise it's their daughters, friends etc who are affected their minds will change so don't be too sure of yourself.

Pocoyo

eviltwin wrote: »

my dad told me once we'd never have gay marriage, that the irish public wouldn't stand for it and now it's a very real possibility. things change,as more women go public with their abortion stories and people realise it's their daughters, friends etc who are affected their minds will change so don't be too sure of yourself.

Hardly comparable,As legalizing gay marriage is victimless. Your daughter analogy is also applicable to the fetus by the way.

eviltwin

Pocoyo wrote: »

Hardly comparable,As legalizing gay marriage is victimless. Your daughter analogy is also applicable to the fetus by the way.

funnily enough a lot of right wing conservatives think gay marriage and gay righs in general are up there with abortion. Can you imagine 20-30 years ago anyone believing that Fine Gael would legislate for abortion? ( albeit in very limited circumstances ) but its a 'slippery slope' as pro life groups have told us. It's a very real possibility that terminations for medical abnormalities will be legal in the next decade.




The foetus is not as important, or ever will be as important as the woman/couple who have the termination.