Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Abortion Discussion

Options
1…1213151718…334

Comments

  • Options
    #422
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    I think what eireannBEAR is trying to say is that legislation needs to be put in place so Ireland doesnt make mistakes with screwing up abortions. I actually agree, these things shouldnt happen and clear guidelines need to be enforced so that the child doesnt get thrown in the bin to die. The abortion should be done in a hospital so if this happens the child can be given medical care. Few abortions are done at that stage and even fewer would end up being born so luckily it wouldnt be a common situation


  • Options
    #423
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    gctest50 wrote: »
    They're injecting some with phenol here (in Ireland) every day of the week.

    I know where it goes on.

    Sure you do.
    If you're not a bishop, and you have evidence of a crime, it's a crime not to report it. So off you go.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Options
    #424
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Banbh wrote: »
    I find her view horrific and luckily this video wasn't around before the vote or we would surely have lost.

    Some randomer on the internet asked a hypothetical question and that would have influenced the vote here in the Oireachtas?

    ???

    Our legislators are supposed to be above empty appeals to emotion, but that didn't stop a few of them, and plenty of those ouside, trying.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Options
    #425
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    I think what eireannBEAR is trying to say...

    There are way better ways to say it. They're less hysterical and lacking in honesty than this latest attempt.


  • Options
    #426
    eireannBEAR
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭eireannBEAR


    ah i can see the truth hurts,well i commend the pro-choicers who at least displayed concern at this situation.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #427
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    ah i can see the truth hurts.

    Is this why you avoid it with such gusto?


  • Options
    #428
    eireannBEAR
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭eireannBEAR


    Sarky wrote: »
    Is this why you avoid it with such gusto?

    no peple can watch this same clip,and see what they are supporting and see the people on internet forum not bating an ounce of sympathy for the born baby.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CyBvzKjje-g


  • Options
    #429
    oldrnwisr
    Registered Users Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭oldrnwisr


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    no peple can watch this same clip,and see what they are supporting and see the people on internet forum not bating an ounce of sympathy for the born baby.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CyBvzKjje-g

    OK, first of all in your previous posts you have dishonestly misrepresented what actually transpires in the video, to the point of falsely stating that the Planned Parenthood representative says:
    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    ... and she says ''we are opposed to bringing the baby to the hospital''.

    which, of course, she doesn't.

    At no point in the video does the Planned Parenthood representative explicitly support anything relating to post-birth abortion. She is, admittedly recalcitrant and evasive but that's about it.

    However, even if she had explicitly supported post-birth abortion and even if she was doing so in line with Planned Parenthood policy, so what? Do you know what an appeal to authority is? Just because this one woman or this one group may support post-birth abortion, this doesn't mean that you can tar all people who identify as pro-choice with the same brush. That is what is known as the guilt by association fallacy.

    Also, it should be noted that once again an unrepresentative scenario is being used as a stick against abortion. In the USA, for example there are approximately 42,000,000 abortions performed each year. In 2010 there were 1270 babies who died having survived botched abortions. This means that you are talking about something that happens in just 0.003% of cases. So, here you are making a hasty generalisation.

    As I have said on numerous occasions there is a real debate to be had here and it is a really complex issue. But people like yourself whose arguments are riddled with logical fallacies, misrepresentations, outright falsehoods and the occasional sprinkling of soapboxing don't help to advance this debate. In fact, since this is an issue which can get quite emotive, particularly for women who have been through this experience, contributions such as yours are deeply unhelpful.

    EDIT: Correction to figures above in post#444.


  • Options
    #430
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    God damn it, oldrnwisr, why are you so consistently amazing?


  • Options
    #431
    eireannBEAR
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭eireannBEAR


    oldrnwisr wrote: »
    OK, first of all in your previous posts you have dishonestly misrepresented what actually transpires in the video, to the point of falsely stating that the Planned Parenthood representative says:



    which, of course, she doesn't.

    At no point in the video does the Planned Parenthood representative explicitly support anything relating to post-birth abortion. She is, admittedly recalcitrant and evasive but that's about it.

    However, even if she had explicitly supported post-birth abortion and even if she was doing so in line with Planned Parenthood policy, so what? Do you know what an appeal to authority is? Just because this one woman or this one group may support post-birth abortion, this doesn't mean that you can tar all people who identify as pro-choice with the same brush. That is what is known as the guilt by association fallacy.

    Also, it should be noted that once again an unrepresentative scenario is being used as a stick against abortion. In the USA, for example there are approximately 42,000,000 abortions performed each year. In 2010 there were 1270 babies who died having survived botched abortions. This means that you are talking about something that happens in just 0.003% of cases. So, here you are making a hasty generalisation.

    As I have said on numerous occasions there is a real debate to be had here and it is a really complex issue. But people like yourself whose arguments are riddled with logical fallacies, misrepresentations, outright falsehoods and the occasional sprinkling of soapboxing don't help to advance this debate. In fact, since this is an issue which can get quite emotive, particularly for women who have been through this experience, contributions such as yours are deeply unhelpful.

    this post just shows the people reading that you,dont care about the baby,it would be less harmful to pro-choice if they condemned this,but they wont because that is what the planned parenthood and the clinics want,they want to allow a born live baby to die,they support that,you cant sugar coat this. and your lack of empathy and understanding of the situation is the real offence here.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #432
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Actually, it shows that you lie in your posts. Could you stop doing that, please?


  • Options
    #433
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    I was under the impression lies make baby Jesus cry. Can anyone confirm this?


  • Options
    #434
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    It seems fine as long as your lies are part of enforcing religious or hysterical think-of-teh-chillidrens type nonsense on others. Jesus seems to love that sh*t.


  • Options
    #435
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,416 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    this post just shows the people reading that you,dont care about the baby [...]
    No, it does nothing of the kind.

    If the "pro-life" side actually stopped seething with righteous indignation for long enough to parse out the issues involved, they'd see that much is neither simplistic nor black-and-white. For an honest debate, emotion should follow the facts -- the opposite is dishonest.

    Your empty, emotional response to oldrnwisr's carefully factual post is part of the problem, and not part of any useful response to the issue of abortion.


  • Options
    #436
    eireannBEAR
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭eireannBEAR


    robindch wrote: »
    No, it does nothing of the kind.

    If the "pro-life" side actually stopped seething with righteous indignation for long enough to parse out the issues involved, they'd see that much is neither simplistic nor black-and-white. For an honest debate, emotion should follow the facts -- the opposite is dishonest.

    Your empty, emotional response to oldrnwisr's carefully factual post is part of the problem, and not part of any useful response to the issue of abortion.


    i completely disagree this kind of link etc,shows people on the fence just how dangerous and selfish extremist pro-choicers are. again you cant even bring yourself to condemn these views,it just shows up as a rotten hateful attitude,at some point you have to think about the live born baby boy or girls life.

    i posted a link of a baby boy found alive in an abortion clinic after two days,do you have no views on these practices? do you not understand that these are live born citizens we are talking about??


  • Options
    #437
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    i completely disagree this kind of link etc,shows people on the fence just how dangerous and selfish extremist pro-choicers are. again you cant even bring yourself to condemn these views,it just shows up as a rotten hateful attitude,at some point you have to think about the live born baby boy or girls life.

    i posted a link of a baby boy found alive in an abortion clinic after two days,do you have no views on these practices? do you not understand that these are live born citizens we are talking about??

    No, they are not citizens. Must you rely on such emotive trickery, untruths, fear mongering, hysteria and wilful ignorance?


  • Options
    #438
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,416 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    i posted a link of a baby boy found alive in an abortion clinic after two days, do you have no views on these practices?
    Twenty hours and not "two days". And as koth points out, the article says the police are investigating whether they can press charges of homicide. I hope and trust they succeed in prosecuting the people responsible for this appalling act.
    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    [...] shows people on the fence just how dangerous and selfish extremist pro-choicers are. again you cant even bring yourself to condemn these views,it just shows up as a rotten hateful attitude,at some point you have to think about the live born baby boy or girls life. [...]
    Does my reply here suggest to you that I may not be "dangerous", "selfish" and "extremist" with a "rotten hateful attitude"? If so, would you like to withdraw some of your silly insults?


  • Options
    #439
    Banbh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Banbh


    Response from Planned Parenthood Florida:
    Last week, a panel of Florida state legislators demanded speculation about a vague set of extremely unlikely and highly unusual medical circumstances. Medical guidelines and ethics already compel physicians facing life-threatening circumstances to respond, and Planned Parenthood physicians provide high-quality medical care and adhere to the most rigorous professional standards, including providing emergency care. In the extremely unlikely event that the scenario presented by the panel of legislators should happen, of course Planned Parenthood would provide appropriate care to both the woman and the infant.
    I hope they have replaced that spokesperson who, by refusing to answer a simple question has given such ammunition to the anti-woman brigade.


  • Options
    #440
    eireannBEAR
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭eireannBEAR


    planned parenthood are arguing for post birth abortion,they support the idea of the mothers right to choose if a live baby lives or dies,they are lobbying for it,all this statement says is that ''of course they follow current law'' but they dont support it,and have ignored post birth abortion reports in the past regarding gosnells clinic by mother patients who witnessed it.


  • Options
    #441
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Sarky wrote: »
    There are way better ways to say it. They're less hysterical and lacking in honesty than this latest attempt.

    What he could means is "omg abortion bad, look at what they do in this country! we cant have abortions because for some reason this would be allowed here" but I chose a more sensible, intelligent meaning behind it.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #442
    Daemonic
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭Daemonic


    oldrnwisr wrote: »
    OK, first of all in your previous posts you have dishonestly misrepresented what actually transpires in the video, to the point of falsely stating that the Planned Parenthood representative says:



    which, of course, she doesn't.

    At no point in the video does the Planned Parenthood representative explicitly support anything relating to post-birth abortion. She is, admittedly recalcitrant and evasive but that's about it.

    However, even if she had explicitly supported post-birth abortion and even if she was doing so in line with Planned Parenthood policy, so what? Do you know what an appeal to authority is? Just because this one woman or this one group may support post-birth abortion, this doesn't mean that you can tar all people who identify as pro-choice with the same brush. That is what is known as the guilt by association fallacy.

    Also, it should be noted that once again an unrepresentative scenario is being used as a stick against abortion. In the USA, for example there are approximately 42,000,000 abortions performed each year. In 2010 there were 1270 babies who died having survived botched abortions. This means that you are talking about something that happens in just 0.003% of cases. So, here you are making a hasty generalisation.

    As I have said on numerous occasions there is a real debate to be had here and it is a really complex issue. But people like yourself whose arguments are riddled with logical fallacies, misrepresentations, outright falsehoods and the occasional sprinkling of soapboxing don't help to advance this debate. In fact, since this is an issue which can get quite emotive, particularly for women who have been through this experience, contributions such as yours are deeply unhelpful.
    That number seems very high. Unless I'm reading it wrong (a distinct possibility) this link suggests less than a million per year in the US.
    42m would mean 1 in 4 females of all ages having an abortion each year in the US.


  • Options
    #443
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    planned parenthood are arguing for post birth abortion,they support the idea of the mothers right to choose if a live baby lives or dies,they are lobbying for it,all this statement says is that ''of course they follow current law'' but they dont support it,and have ignored post birth abortion reports in the past regarding gosnells clinic by mother patients who witnessed it.

    Have you ever taken a step back and actually read the stuff you post on this topic?


  • Options
    #444
    oldrnwisr
    Registered Users Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭oldrnwisr


    Daemonic wrote: »
    That number seems very high. Unless I'm reading it wrong (a distinct possibility) this link suggests less than a million per year in the US.
    42m would mean 1 in 4 females of all ages having an abortion each year in the US.

    Yes. Apologies and thank you for that correction. 42 million is the global annual abortion rate. The USA total is slightly unreliable due to the lack of mandatory reporting. From your link it seems that the US figure is approximately 1 million which makes the percentage of botched abortions to be approximately 0.1% so still not something which is at all representative of legal abortion. Furthermore, statistics from Canada from the period 2000-2009 show that there were 491 botched abortions from a total of approximately 900,000 or 0.05%. So basically in western healthcare systems, this is essentially a non-issue.


  • Options
    #445
    UDP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭UDP


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    planned parenthood are arguing for post birth abortion,they support the idea of the mothers right to choose if a live baby lives or dies,they are lobbying for it,all this statement says is that ''of course they follow current law'' but they dont support it,and have ignored post birth abortion reports in the past regarding gosnells clinic by mother patients who witnessed it.
    They are not arguing for post birth abortions, please provide evidence that they are lobbying for it. Nothing you have shown so far even remotely suggests they are lobbying for it.

    Gosnell has nothing to do with Planned Parenthood nor do Planned Parenthood regulate the abortion healthcare sector.

    You are lying.


  • Options
    #446
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,661 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    The papers tell us that the Council of State meet's on Monday next, in consultation with the President, to consider what it's advice to him will be (ref referral or no) of the abortion bill to the Supreme Court.

    Article 26 of the constitution is the law on how long the President has to refer the bill to the SC (7 days) after the bill was given to him by the Taoiseach for signature. I assume the seven days includes the Council's consultation-period. It doesn't give the President and the council much consultation-time as the meeting isn't until Monday.

    The time-limit I'm outlining is based on the assumption that Michael has been asked by Enda to sign the bill, and that's how Michael has been able to start the consultation process. It may yet be some time, say; max 60 days from Tues/Wed next week, before the bill's fate is settled.

    Art 26.3 1° In every case in which the Supreme Court decides that any provision of a Bill the subject of a reference to the Supreme Court under this Article is repugnant to this Constitution or to any provision thereof, the President shall decline to sign such Bill. If provision mean's section, then the bill rises and fall's in it's entirety.

    I'm wondering if it is/would be an offence to approach any member of the council of state in an attempt to prejudice it's advice before the consultation start's next Monday?


  • Options
    #447
    oldrnwisr
    Registered Users Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭oldrnwisr


    Sarky wrote: »
    God damn it, oldrnwisr, why are you so consistently amazing?

    Thank you for the comment, really thank you. I really appreciate it.


  • Options
    #448
    eireannBEAR
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭eireannBEAR


    heres the text of the infamous remarks that planned parenthood and abortion clinics support.

    https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CDsQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Farticles.washingtonpost.com%2F2013-04-08%2Fopinions%2F38362423_1_viable-babies-abortion-survivor-planned-parenthood&ei=UC_xUbSgDY-B7QaCqIHIDw&usg=AFQjCNGRqCtP1XAhH5vXE6UeBEVQ1ZICIg&sig2=XT41MQWT2V6nBe6tDo6KuQ

    i have just learned that footage of this is to be played on tv3.


  • Options
    #449
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,632 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    heres the text of the infamous remarks
    No, no it's not. You can tell, because it's the opinion part of a newspaper site, and is a piece about the remarks. The only quote from the actual piece is:
    “If a baby is born on a table as a result of a botched abortion, what would Planned Parenthood want to have happen to that child that is struggling for life?” She replied: “We believe that any decision that’s made should be left up to the woman, her family, and the physician.”

    If you want to post actual, literal quotes, then do so, but you haven't yet

    Boardsie Enhancement Suite - a browser extension to make using Boards on desktop a better experience (includes full-width display, keyboard shortcuts, dark mode, and more). Now available through your browser's extension store.

    Firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/addon/boardsie-enhancement-suite/

    Chrome/Edge/Opera: https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/boardsie-enhancement-suit/bbgnmnfagihoohjkofdnofcfmkpdmmce



  • Options
    #450
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    eireannBEAR wrote: »
    heres the text of the infamous remarks that planned parenthood and abortion clinics support.

    https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CDsQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Farticles.washingtonpost.com%2F2013-04-08%2Fopinions%2F38362423_1_viable-babies-abortion-survivor-planned-parenthood&ei=UC_xUbSgDY-B7QaCqIHIDw&usg=AFQjCNGRqCtP1XAhH5vXE6UeBEVQ1ZICIg&sig2=XT41MQWT2V6nBe6tDo6KuQ

    That's not a transcript that's an opinion piece. So it is not the text you claim to be linking to.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #451
    eireannBEAR
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭eireannBEAR


    Jernal wrote: »
    That's not a transcript that's an opinion piece. So it is not the text you claim to be linking to.

    what are your views on this video jernal,do you condone planned parenthoods views in this video?


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement