Abortion Discussion

shruikan2553

Is a child provided for you to wave at people?

Bannasidhe

Turtwig wrote: »

Now, now ban forum rules prohibit apple worship. A & A is exclusively android and Windows.

Be a cool gran and get a her android. The forum won't ostracise you for it.

Oh I would never ever purchase an Apple product but if peeps are giving them away like.... I could sell it and buy her a kindle fire...

Turtwig

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Oh I would never ever purchase an Apple product but if peeps are giving them away like.... I could sell it and buy her a kindle fire...

robindch

In a predictable, but still disappointing decision, the US Supreme Court has asserted that a corporation has religious beliefs which should be respected. In the specific case, this refers to whether a family-owned corporation should be able to force its employees to adhere to the religious beliefs of its owners.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/01/us/supreme-court-ruling-in-contraceptive-case-is-awaited.html

Words, etc, fail, but I can't see this ruling resulting in anything positive for anybody.

Cabaal

robindch wrote: »

In a predictable, but still disappointing decision, the US Supreme Court has asserted that a corporation has religious beliefs which should be respected. In the specific case, this refers to whether a family-owned corporation should be able to force its employees to adhere to the religious beliefs of its owners.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/01/us/supreme-court-ruling-in-contraceptive-case-is-awaited.htm

Words, etc, fail, but I can't see this ruling resulting in anything positive for anybody.

Link not working,

So say you worked a large corp with 5k employee's and its bought by a Muslim, they decide no pig products in the canteen/vending machines and none should be eaten on premises by anyone.

That would be ok based on this outcome....again don't have working link to actually read into it more

robindch

Linky fixy above. In summary:

Knasher

Cabaal wrote: »

Link not working,

So say you worked a large corp with 5k employee's and its bought by a Muslim, they decide no pig products in the canteen/vending machines and none should be eaten on premises by anyone.

That would be ok based on this outcome....again don't have working link to actually read into it more

The ruling did say that it only applied to contraceptives, and to companies controlled by a religious group (so probably not LLCes). That being said, you'd imagine that just means that the lower courts will apply the reasoning broadly but that the issue could be referred back up to the supreme court at some point for clarification.

Some members of the SC (mostly Scalia), seem to vote according to their religious views though, so it would be pretty interesting what way he would go if an non-christian religious group had a case.

Also I'd imagine it would be legal for a Muslim owner to decide that their company wouldn't be selling pork products anyway. What would be interesting though is if they tried to impose Ramadan fasting on their employees and shut down the canteens.

Brian Shanahan

robindch wrote: »

In a predictable, but still disappointing decision, the US Supreme Court has asserted that a corporation has religious beliefs which should be respected. In the specific case, this refers to whether a family-owned corporation should be able to force its employees to adhere to the religious beliefs of its owners.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/01/us/supreme-court-ruling-in-contraceptive-case-is-awaited.html

Words, etc, fail, but I can't see this ruling resulting in anything positive for anybody.

Much as I hate the man, Andrew Jackson was right on one thing, give the corporations an inch, and they'll end up ruling you, and perverting your justice.

Well done America, you've given up liberty for (literal) slavery.

Delirium

robindch wrote: »

In a predictable, but still disappointing decision, the US Supreme Court has asserted that a corporation has religious beliefs which should be respected. In the specific case, this refers to whether a family-owned corporation should be able to force its employees to adhere to the religious beliefs of its owners.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/01/us/supreme-court-ruling-in-contraceptive-case-is-awaited.html

Words, etc, fail, but I can't see this ruling resulting in anything positive for anybody.

and....

iwantmydinner

Person person unit of labour

Person person walking womb

but definitely not foetus corporation human being, nope

Sulla Felix

Not really all that shocking. Churches and religious run schools, hospitals, care providers etc etc were all exempt already. Small businesses don't have to provide any cover at all.

Whacky way of providing coverage in the first place.

Delirium

George Takei has blogged about the Hobby Lobby mess

The ruling elevates the rights of a FOR-PROFIT CORPORATION over those of its women employees and opens the door to all manner of claims that a company can refuse services based on its owner’s religion. Think about the ramifications: As Justice Ginsberg’s stinging dissent pointed out, companies run by Scientologists could refuse to cover antidepressants, and those run by Jews or Hindus could refuse to cover medications derived from pigs (such as many anesthetics, intravenous fluids, or medications coated in gelatin).

In this case, the owners happen to be deeply Christian; one wonders whether the case would have come out differently if a Muslim-run chain business attempted to impose Sharia law on its employees.

As many have pointed out, Hobby Lobby is the same company that invests in Pfizer and Teva Pharmaceuticals, makers of abortion inducing-drugs and the morning after pill. It also buys most of its inventory from China, where forced abortions are common. The hypocrisy is galling.

Hobby Lobby is not a church. It’s a business — and a big one at that. Businesses must and should be required to comply with neutrally crafted laws of general applicability. Your boss should not have a say over your healthcare. Once the law starts permitting exceptions based on “sincerely held religious beliefs” there’s no end to the mischief and discrimination that will ensue. Indeed, this is the same logic that certain restaurants and hotels have been trying to deploy to allow proprietors to refuse service to gay couples.

We are a nation that respects religious beliefs, but also the right not to have those beliefs imposed upon you by others. Our personal beliefs stop at the end of our noses, and we should therefore keep it out of other people’s business — and bedrooms.

Cabaal

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/detailed-guidelines-on-legal-abortion-released-1.1853331

Assessment
“If a woman has completed her first assessment with a psychiatrist and [is] found to satisfy the requirements of the Act, but the second psychiatrist disagrees or does not give an opinion, then the second psychiatrist must inform the woman in writing that she has a right to apply for a formal review of her case.”

If both psychiatrists agree she needs a termination she will then be referred to an appropriate obstetrician/ gynaecologist for the procedure.

The guidelines say that “where practicable” the woman’s GP should be consulted. “However, this consultation can only take place if the woman consents to it,” they say.

The guidelines say decisions should be made expeditiously and relayed to the patient. If the psychiatrists do not believe the woman needs a termination to save her life they will set out other options.

If I was a women I'd just travel to the UK rather then put myself through what they propose.

iwantmydinner

Cabaal wrote: »

If I was a women I'd just travel to the UK rather then put myself through what they propose.

+1

What about disadvantaged women who can't afford to go or who can't leave other children to go to the UK

What about women living under the control of their partners

What about young women or teenagers who don't have the wherewithal to go

This proposal does nothing to alleviate their crises

lazygal

Cabaal wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/detailed-guidelines-on-legal-abortion-released-1.1853331



If I was a women I'd just travel to the UK rather then put myself through what they propose.

I'm guessing that's what the powers that be were hoping when the put up all those hoops.

Cabaal

lazygal wrote: »

I'm guessing that's what the powers that be were hoping when the put up all those hoops.

without a doubt, thats exactly the planned outcome.

Make it so difficult that nobody will opt for the option,

Its hard enough seek help if you are feeling suicidal, but then to be pushed through what they propose is unreal.

shruikan2553

Surprised it doesn't include a 9 month cooling period so you can make sure you want an abortion.

robindch

SW wrote: »

George Takei has blogged about the Hobby Lobby mess

Just on a separate, but related thing, in the last couple of years, George Takei has built a hugely impressive public profile and I can't help but wonder what would happen if he ran for public office.

Granted, he's fairly old, but if he's even half as good as he comes across -- and I'd like to think he'd be twice as good -- he'd be a credit to the people who elected him.

Go, George!

aloyisious

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Surprised it doesn't include a 9 month cooling period so you can make sure you want an abortion.

Was wondering what the time-line was to be between Psychiatric consultations myself, when the doctors can refuse to take part, given that it's supposed to be cases when the woman is/claims to be suicidal. Open-ended guidelines again... nothing of actual law insistence on co-operation with the pregnant woman.

rainbow kirby

I would wonder if people like Patricia Casey would deliberately try and get themselves involved in the process to block things up, I wouldn't put it past them...

PopePalpatine

robindch wrote: »

Just on a separate, but related thing, in the last couple of years, George Takei has built a hugely impressive public profile and I can't help but wonder what would happen if he ran for public office.

Granted, he's fairly old, but if he's even half as good as he comes across -- and I'd like to think he'd be twice as good -- he'd be a credit to the people who elected him.

Go, George!

The Tea Party would have a fit - he's gay, of Japanese descent and probably atheist (or at the very least, not a Christian).

MrPudding

PopePalpatine wrote: »

The Tea Party would have a fit - he's gay, of Japanese descent and probably atheist (or at the very least, not a Christian).

All the more reason.

MrP

Delirium

Ireland’s abortion law breaches human rights law

In questioning yesterday, Mr Shany said that while the committee had in the past accepted varied practices among member states on abortion, there were circumstances where abortion must be available under the Covenant – “and certainly not criminalised”.

These included serious risk to the life or health of the mother, fatal foetal abnormalities and rape or incest.

“While the 2013 Act represents some improvement on the previous situation it does not address many of the committee’s concerns and has left in place the criminalisation of abortion even in circumstances in which we deem (member) states to be under an obligation to allow safe and legal abortion.”

It was “disappointing” to hear Ireland had no plans to remove Article 40.3.3 of the Constitution, which guarantees to vindicate as far as possible the equal rights to life of the mother and unborn, “notwithstanding the statement made by the previous Minister for Justice, Alan Shatter, that the current regime results in ‘unacceptable cruelty’.

“Can the delegation explain how it reconciles its current laws on abortion with its obligations under article 6, and in particular, article 7 of the Covenant – which is, I may remind you – an absolute right?” he asked.

Article 6 guarantees the individual’s right to life while Article 7 prohibits torture and cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment.

alaimacerc

PopePalpatine wrote: »

The Tea Party would have a fit - he's gay, of Japanese descent and probably atheist (or at the very least, not a Christian).

I understand that he's an atheist Buddhist. Which actually makes reasonable sense as a belief system, as against the numerous atheist/agnostic/gnostic/deist "Christians" out and about.

robindch

EWTN keeping it classy the other day. Strange thing was that these two people just couldn't stop smiling while discussing how awful abortion was.



Five minutes later. The counter was going up something like one every second.

Mr. CooL ICE

Nice way to counter protest

Johnny Be Goode

The irony that is always missed is that 100% of the mother's of pro-choice individuals,pro abortion polititions,abortion doctors/nurses etc are/were indeed pro-life! The proof is in the fact that they were born safely into this world to become pro-choice ambassadors! What if their mothers for whatever reason said No,Im not having this one, then the pro-choice people wouldnt have lived to know what it like to have children,friends,to be in love,to govern a country,assist in restoring someones health.....

rainbow kirby

Johnny Be Goode wrote: »

The irony that is always missed is that 100% of the mother's of pro-choice individuals,pro abortion polititions,abortion doctors/nurses etc are/were indeed pro-life!

Wrong. Plenty of mothers are pro-choice, including my own mother and grandmother. They chose (or had the choice made for them) to have children, but believe fundamentally in a woman's right to make her own reproductive choices.

Delirium

Johnny Be Goode wrote: »

The irony that is always missed is that 100% of the mother's of pro-choice individuals,pro abortion polititions,abortion doctors/nurses etc are/were indeed pro-life! The proof is in the fact that they were born safely into this world to become pro-choice ambassadors! What if their mothers for whatever reason said No,Im not having this one, then the pro-choice people wouldnt have lived to know what it like to have children,friends,to be in love,to govern a country,assist in restoring someones health.....

:rolleyes:

what if their parents never met?

Johnny Be Goode

They should thank fate or whatever!