Abortion Discussion

Alderwould

Corkfeen wrote: »

It remains a person's choice so your definition of forcing is fairly off.

You're actually correct as neither organisation have the cajones to even try it.

Alderwould

28064212 wrote: »

What sentence should apply to a woman that ends a pregnancy where the foetus can never survive?

Every life is precious and has an equal right to exist. whether that be for 80 years or 80 minutes.

Intentionally killing that life in the womb is still a crime and rightly so.
As for a sentence? Each case is unique. It could be a fine or possibly incarceration. Depending on the mitigating circumstances.

TheChizler

Alderwould wrote: »

Every life is precious and has an equal right to exist. whether that be for 80 years or 80 minutes.

And the considerable pain it will more than likely experience?

Alderwould

TheChizler wrote: »

And the considerable pain it will more than likely experience?

Have you ever heard of Perinatal Hospice care?

A truly noble gift to families who go through the heartbreaking loss just as their beautiful baby is born.

This Youtube clip gets me everytime but it shows how babies who have very short lives and their families can get the necessary love and support.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY7mq1g9pGk

Morag

Nodin wrote: »

.....it's unlikely. It'll take some fuck awful case being dragged through Europe for a few years and resisted every step of the way.

We have already had that happen with the A B & C cases.

http://www.ifpa.ie/Hot-Topics/Abortion/ABC-v-Ireland

It will take a referendum on the 8th amendment and the current government or indeed any of the larger parties seem to have no stomach for it. I reckon we will sooner see a case related to the abortion pill as the number of women taking it here are soaring.

In the mean time in Carlow and Kildare I have heard of prolife gauntlets on the way to secondary and primary schools. They are more then 200 meters from the school gate and so don't need permission from the school, they had posters and were handing out leaflets :mad:

28064212

Alderwould wrote: »

Every life is precious and has an equal right to exist. whether that be for 80 years or 80 minutes.

Intentionally killing that life in the womb is still a crime and rightly so.
As for a sentence? Each case is unique. It could be a fine or possibly incarceration. Depending on the mitigating circumstances.

Diagnosis of Anencephaly at 23 weeks. No chance of survival or consciousness. Healthy mother, who simply doesn't wish to carry a brain-dead foetus for another 4 months. She finds a sympathetic doctor here in Ireland who performs a safe abortion that is regularly carried out in clinics across the world.

How long should she be incarcerated for? How much of a fine? What has she done to deserve a criminal conviction?

gaynorvader

Better lock her up in case she becomes a serial abortionist! She could become addicted to abortions! http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/251915/bad-irene

Alderwould

28064212 wrote: »

Diagnosis of Anencephaly at 23 weeks. No chance of survival or consciousness. Healthy mother, who simply doesn't wish to carry a brain-dead foetus for another 4 months. She finds a sympathetic doctor here in Ireland who performs a safe abortion that is regularly carried out in clinics across the world.

How long should she be incarcerated for? How much of a fine? What has she done to deserve a criminal conviction?

Intentionally killing her unborn baby is criminal.

I've already expressed my view on actual sentence. Depending on mitigating circumstances it could be anything from a fine to incarceration.

Frito

Alderwould wrote: »

I've already expressed my view on actual sentence. Depending on mitigating circumstances it could be anything from a fine to incarceration.

I think 28064212 (aka Numbers) is wanting your opinion on the specific sentence in this specific scenario (assuming you consider it fulfils the criteria of mitigating circumstance).

Jack Kyle

Alderwould wrote: »

Have you ever heard of Perinatal Hospice care?

A truly noble gift to families who go through the heartbreaking loss just as their beautiful baby is born.

This Youtube clip gets me everytime but it shows how babies who have very short lives and their families can get the necessary love and support.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY7mq1g9pGk

And yet there are people who want to see unborn babies aborted in this country as a form of contraception and as a form of women's lib.

Watch that video, shed a tear and then hang your head in shame if you're pro-abortion.

Heartbreaking.

Sarky

Do you have any views not marinated in twee little clichés paid for by US fundies?

I'm very glad abhorrent views such as yours have such paltry representation in this country.

Alderwould

Frito wrote: »

I think 28064212 (aka Numbers) is wanting your opinion on the specific sentence in this specific scenario (assuming you consider it fulfils the criteria of mitigating circumstance).

It depends on the mitigating circumstances, but I certainly wouldn't rule out incarceration.

Alderwould

Jack Kyle wrote: »

And yet there are people who want to see unborn babies aborted in this country as a form of contraception and as a form of women's lib.

Watch that video, shed a tear and then hang your head in shame if you're pro-abortion.

Heartbreaking.

Well said Jack.

28064212

Alderwould wrote: »

Intentionally killing her unborn baby is criminal.

At the moment, in this country, yes. Criminality doesn't have anything to do with whether it's right or not. The question is should she be made a convicted criminal for making that choice

Alderwould wrote: »

I've already expressed my view on actual sentence. Depending on mitigating circumstances it could be anything from a fine to incarceration.

I've laid out a very explicit scenario. There is no other relevant information. How long should she be locked up for?

Obliq

Alderwould wrote: »

Intentionally killing her unborn baby is criminal.
.

Jack Kyle wrote: »

Watch that video, shed a tear and then hang your head in shame if you're pro-abortion.

Heartbreaking.

Ah, g'way and eat a sausage :mad: Then hang your own heads in shame for killing such an intelligent animal as a pig. That pig who was many MANY times more advanced in consciousness, emotional capacity and physical feelings than a 9 or 12 week old human foetus.

What IS it about the human, that makes us think we're so damn special here in the developed world, and so damn expendable in less developed areas? Oh wait.....religion.

Frito

Could you be specific re mitigating circumstances and the sentences you would consider justified?

Bannasidhe

Hmmmmm...Jack and Alderwould.... there's something about those two names when put together....I know = Jake and Elwood :eek:

Alderwould

28064212 wrote: »

At the moment, in this country, yes. Criminality doesn't have anything to do with whether it's right or not. The question is should she be made a convicted criminal for making that choice

For intentionally taking her unborn baby's life? Yes is the answer.

I would be open to incarceration, depending on the circumstances on mitigation. That's the best you're going to get out of me.

Sarky

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Hmmmmm...Jack and Alderwould.... there's something about those two names when put together....I know = Jake and Elwood :eek:

Great. You've ruined the Blues Brothers for me. I hope you're happy.

Obliq

The Blah Brothers. Excellent.




although I think we shall be smited for "personal jibes" eh?

Alderwould

Frito wrote: »

Could you be specific re mitigating circumstances and the sentences you would consider justified?

Mental state of the mother at the time of the crime for one.

Sarky

Alderwould wrote: »

I would be open to incarceration, depending on the circumstances on mitigation. That's the best you're going to get out of me.

Not really very good. Are you sure you can't try harder? Like actually answering the question that was asked? That'd be a real feather in your cap.

Alderwould

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Hmmmmm...Jack and Alderwould.... there's something about those two names when put together....I know = Jake and Elwood :eek:

Cool!!

Bannasidhe

Obliq wrote: »

although I think we shall be smited for "personal jibes" eh?

perhaps if we repent....

sorry mods. My bad.

Frito

Alderwould wrote: »

I would be open to incarceration, depending on the circumstances on mitigation. That's the best you're going to get out of me.

Is it fair to assume you don't consider anencephaly a mitigating circumstance?
If so, what do circumstances do you consider meriting different sentences?
And what sentences would you consider justified?

Alderwould

Bannasidhe wrote: »

perhaps if we repent....

sorry mods. My bad.

Three Hail Marys and a Glory Be.

Obliq

Bannasidhe wrote: »

perhaps if we repent....

sorry mods. My bad.

28064212

Alderwould wrote: »

For intentionally taking her unborn baby's life? Yes is the answer.

Her unborn baby, who has no prospect of life, and no consciousness. The mother should be forced to carry a (for all intents and purposes) dead baby around for 4 months, and go through a painful birth, and for what?

Alderwould wrote: »

I would be open to incarceration, depending on the circumstances on mitigation. That's the best you're going to get out of me.

That's quite sickening, but unsurprising

Alderwould

Frito wrote: »

Is it fair to assume you don't consider anencephaly a mitigating circumstance?
If so, what do circumstances do you consider meriting different sentences?
And what sentences would you consider justified?

Depending on the case a maximum 14 year sentence could be as justifiable as a suspended sentence.

Lets see the first case and take it from there.

Bannasidhe

Alderwould wrote: »

Three Hail Marys and a Glory Be.

The chances of me doing that are the same as the chance of doing three Seig Heils and an Uber Alles.