Abortion Discussion

Nodin

Meanwhile, the acrimony continues, with aggrieved Blue Shirts taking a few pot shots at Peter "Rosary Beads" Mathews

FG members 'go through Mathews for a short-cut'

As the row developed, Mr Mathews made reference to Mr Shatter voting against the party position on hare coursing 20 years ago, without being punished by losing the Fine Gael whip.


"He said he was dealing with 'matters of life and death'. He also said: 'What
about your minister there, it was all well and good for him and the hares,
wasn't it Alan?'," a member at the meeting said.


Sitting up the front of the room, Mr Shatter didn't rise to the bait and was
said to have merely responded: "Peter, we're above this. I'm not going to be engaging in petty name-calling." "Shatter isn't particularly liked, but he has respect," a party member said.

Morag

There are those who hold the same opinions as Peter Mathews who are not pleased that Alan Shatter as minister for Justice and Equality has openly said that the legislation which was passed does not go far enough to safe guard the health of women and that as long as the 8th amendment is in place women once they become pregnant become second class citizens.

Nodin

Morag wrote: »

There are those who hold the same opinions as Peter Mathews who are not pleased that Alan Shatter as minister for Justice and Equality has openly said that the legislation which was passed does not go far enough to safe guard the health of women and that as long as the 8th amendment is in place women once they become pregnant become second class citizens.

....I suspect that somebody with a concealed recorder could gather some rather choice remarks about Mr Shatter amongst the pro-life crowd as regards his ethnicity. I'd also put a few bob that "protestant" and "Irish Times" would come up more than once. However it will probably fall to the foreign media to do such an investigation.

Brian Shanahan

Nodin wrote: »

....I suspect that somebody with a concealed recorder could gather some rather choice remarks about Mr Shatter amongst the pro-life crowd as regards his ethnicity. I'd also put a few bob that "protestant" and "Irish Times" would come up more than once. However it will probably fall to the foreign media to do such an investigation.

If the anti-abortion crowd were clever they'd be saying schande vor de goyim. But then again the only working brain in the likes of Jugend Defence is currently being used to the full extent by their pet goldfish.

Doctor Strange

Oh dear, seems we lost an *ahem* contributor to this thread :pac:

Brian Shanahan

Unforgettable _ Fire wrote: »

Oh dear, seems we lost an *ahem* contributor to this thread :pac:

Who performed the post-natal self abortion?

Turtwig

This guy.

Brian Shanahan

Jernal wrote: »

This guy.

Tsk, tsk. It's always a shame to see anti-abortionists resort to abortion. Pity then that it seems to be rather common.

Nodin

It's with great pleasure I say "Up Yours Father Kevin Doran"...

The Mater Hospital has confirmed it will comply with the law as provided for
in the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act.

Last month, a member of its board said it could not comply with the act.
Fr Kevin Doran had said the Catholic voluntary hospital cannot carry out
abortions because they go against its ethos.
However, in a statement today, the hospital said its "priority is to be at
the frontier of compassion, concern and clinical care for all our patients."
"Having regard to that duty the Hospital will comply with the law as provided for in the act."

Under the act, individual medical practitioners who have a conscientious
objection to abortion cannot be forced to carry out a termination. However,
institutions enjoy no such rights.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0925/476402-mater-hospital/

aloyisious

Plus conscientious objectors will have to ensure the patient concerned is referred on to another medical practitioner for treatment.

Morag

As long as there are guidelines for that to happen in a timely fashion esp in a critical situation.

aloyisious

The IFI is showing a film "After Tiller" about the late-term abortion-providing doctor - Dr Tiller - who was murdered by a person opposed to abortions in the US some years ago. There will (reportedly) be an appearance by Shellet Sella, another late-term abortion-provider. Sella has been accused by a former nurse, Tina Davis, of killing a baby with a scissors during an abortion operation. This might make for an interesting presentation.

aloyisious

Morag wrote: »

As long as there are guidelines for that to happen in a timely fashion esp in a critical situation.

To be honest, the only "guideline" I'd see ensuring a tardy doctor does not waste time ensuring another doctor take's over care of such a patient might be a long prison term awarded to some prior "conscientious Objector" who delayed handover to prevent a legal abortion occurring. Guidelines aren't really worth the paper they are written-on.

Sarky

Well-known arsehole David Quinn is unhappy about the Mater complying with law. What a bunch of bullies! he says.

Not related to abortion, but I particularly liked where he went on to grumble about the recommendations of the Forum on Patronage and Pluralism in Primary Schools. Says he about making the schools more secular: "Does this mean the 'Our Father' or the 'Hail Mary' would be deemed insufficiently inclusive and need to be replaced by generic prayers?"

PopePalpatine

<Any variable of seeing a person next tuesday isn't appropriate.>

Sarky

<this post won't make sense until the one above stops getting edited >

aloyisious

Sarky wrote: »

Well-known arsehole David Quinn is unhappy about the Mater complying with law. What a bunch of bullies! he says.

Not related to abortion, but I particularly liked where he went on to grumble about the recommendations of the Forum on Patronage and Pluralism in Primary Schools. Says he about making the schools more secular: "Does this mean the 'Our Father' or the 'Hail Mary' would be deemed insufficiently inclusive and need to be replaced by generic prayers?"

Does this mean there'll be more "moving Statues" and non-displaying of religious memorabilia (excepting worry-beads of course)?

lazygal

I'd love to know what "generic prayers" are.

Bannasidhe

lazygal wrote: »

I'd love to know what "generic prayers" are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7sF4JzjwTg

aidan24326

aloyisious wrote: »

Plus conscientious objectors will have to ensure the patient concerned is referred on to another medical practitioner for treatment.

It's galling that there should even be such a thing as a 'conscientous objector' when it comes to medical treatment. Call me hardline but I think a doctor who refuses to carry out a legal, ethical medical procedure on nothing other than religious grounds is of very questionable fitness to practise. But as usual religious belief is given this wholly undeserved respect.

The Black Oil

Going to try and see After Tiller in the IFI. A little apprehensive in case the screening is hijacked or something.

The Black Oil

Did anybody else see it?

I heard someone describe it as 'hideous' as I was leaving, so I suspect it'll serve as confirmation bias no matter where you side on this debate. It's a good film, albeit rather one sided since the anti-abortion people are often shown as violent or extremists, though others are peaceful. I thought its main strength was that it was non-judgemental towards the women involved. Some desperately sad situations, really.

Morag

I've seen it and I got the chance to talk to Dr Sella Friday evening at a Speak out event the Abortion Rights Campgain had organized. She is a very interesting person, it was her first ever visit to Ireland and we talked about the way care and access in the USA very much depends if you can travel and have the money much like for Irish women and while the women she see's haven't have to leave the country they live in but it can be just as difficult.

She was interviewed by Pat Kenny as one of 4 drs who do late term abortions in the whole of the USA.
http://www.newstalk.ie/player/podcasts/The_Pat_Kenny_Show/The_Pat_Kenny_Show_Highlights/34085/2/Dr._Shelley_Sella_-_late_term_abortions

The Black Oil

Thanks, will have a listen.

What did you think of the film?

Jack Kyle

I've been keeping track of this thread but deliberately not contributing.

The thread's title is misleading. It is not an "Abortion Discussion Thread" at all. It's a place for people who are pro abortion to promote and endorse abortion and attack anyone who dares to present an opposing argument.

lazygal

Jack Kyle wrote: »

I've been keeping track of this thread but deliberately not contributing.

The thread's title is misleading. It is not an "Abortion Discussion Thread" at all. It's a place for people who are pro abortion to promote and endorse abortion and attack anyone who dares to present an opposing argument.

Well go on then and give us your argument in favour of enforced pregnancy regardless of a woman's wishes.

Jack Kyle

lazygal wrote: »

Well go on then and give us your argument in favour of enforced pregnancy regardless of a woman's wishes.

I've made my position clear.

lazygal

Jack Kyle wrote: »

I've made my position clear.

No, you haven't. Tell me why I should be forced to gestate and birth a foetus regardless of my wishes.

Obliq

lazygal wrote: »

No, you haven't. Tell me why I should be forced to gestate and birth a foetus regardless of my wishes.

....And me. Tell me why too.

Jack Kyle

Obliq wrote: »

....And me. Tell me why too.

Because your right to choose what happens to your own body doesn't supercede your unborn child's right to life.

Medical procedures (such as the one poor Savita should have received) are fine but "lifestyle abortions" (i.e. the use of abortion as a retrospective contraceptive) are a disgrace.