Abortion Discussion

iwantmydinner · 03-10-2013 1:22pm

Jack Kyle wrote: »

That's a ludicrous question. It's an outrageous practice.

Em, so is sedating and tying up pregnant women to force them to go carry an unwanted or health-threatening pregnancy to term. So too are forced hysterectomies as punishment for having an abortion.

Both of which you want.

Cabaal · 03-10-2013 1:28pm

Jack Kyle wrote: »

I would not view abortion as an option because the unborn child is an innocent party. As is the rape victim.

I would however advocate the castration of rapists if that's of interest to you.

If the rape victim is innocent then why ruin their life?

By forcing them and even holding them down to force them to give birth then you violate their body further and their rights so you are no different to the rapist.

Should we cut off your hands if you are the one that holds them down?

Jack Kyle · 03-10-2013 1:30pm

Cabaal wrote: »

People do it, many for religious reasons.

Kind of the same as people used to think rape victims should have to marry their rapists, for religious reason. The bible made it so.

Since your in the answering mode Jack, care to answer

1. Would you be happy to deny your wife/sister/cousin an abortion if she was raped and beaten and became pregnant and wants to have an abortion? Will you be such a big person as to tell her she must give birth to the rapists offspring?

2 Are you happy with the fetus being created out of a rape?

3 Do you think the women should cherish the rapists offspring being inside her body?

4 Do you think the rapist should have legal rights to see his offspring if it is born? If no, then why would you deny the rights of another human being and the child?

1. Yes. Yes.

2. No but we are where we are.

3. See "2" above.

4. No.

kylith · 03-10-2013 1:31pm

Jack Kyle wrote: »

I would not view abortion as an option because the unborn child is an innocent party. As is the rape victim.

I would however advocate the castration of rapists if that's of interest to you.

So, you would tell a member of your family who had been brutalised and raped that as far as you're concerned she has to carry it to term whether she wants to or not.

Would you disown her if she had a termination anyway?

Nodin · 03-10-2013 2:12pm

Peter "rosary beads" Mathews leaves FG
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1003/478103-peter-mathews-fine-gael/

Can't see too many being sorry about it. Hopefully his next departure will be from the Dail.

Turtwig · 03-10-2013 2:19pm

Nodin wrote: »

Peter "sure we're all going to end up dead anyway" Mathews leaves FG
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1003/478103-peter-mathews-fine-gael/

Can't see too many being sorry about it. Hopefully his next departure will be from the Dail.

Fixed:P

Brian Shanahan · 03-10-2013 2:34pm

lazygal wrote: »

I'm not a theoretical woman. Your opinion is wrong.

Jack needs to believe that you're not really a woman, because his worldview depends on the no true Scotsman fallacy, i.e. his idea is that "no true woman would have an abortion, because I'm against abortions".

kylith · 03-10-2013 2:46pm

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Jack needs to believe that you're not really a woman, because his worldview depends on the no true Scotsman fallacy, i.e. his idea is that "no true woman would have an abortion, because I'm against abortions".

It's the same reason he keeps going on about hedonistic 'free love' lifestyles, he has to believe that normal women; women with families, conscientious, hard-working, reliable women, don't make considered decisions to have abortions. Because if normal, conscientious, hard-working, reliable women have abortions then any woman could have one, even someone in his family.

gaynorvader · 03-10-2013 2:49pm

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Jack needs to believe that you're not really a woman, because his worldview depends on the no true Scotsman fallacy, i.e. his idea is that "no true woman would have an abortion, because I'm against abortions".

kylith wrote: »

It's the same reason he keeps going on about hedonistic 'free love' lifestyles, he has to believe that normal women; women with families, conscientious, hard-working, reliable women, don't make considered decisions to have abortions. Because if normal, conscientious, hard-working, reliable women have abortions then any woman could have one, even someone in his family.

Are you guys strawmanning? I can't find where Jack said either of these things. Though he's kind of implied what kylith attributed to him.

Brian Shanahan · 03-10-2013 2:52pm

Jack Kyle wrote: »

Irish people are forced to the far corners of the world to find children to adopt.

Adoption rather than abortion is a solution.

And yes, perhaps the taxpayer should subsidise the sterilisation of these people.

Jack I think I've asked you this before (it may have been JC), and if you were the questionee then shame on you for not answering.

But how many babies which would have been aborted foetuses otherwise have you personally adopted?

I find it strange most times an anti-abortionist talks about adoption being the answer for all the unwanted foetuses, when put up to them that they should personally adopt they run a mile.

Turtwig · 03-10-2013 2:52pm

Ahh folks.

Please don't add fuel to what is already a volatile and unstable fire.

kylith · 03-10-2013 2:54pm

gaynorvader wrote: »

Are you guys strawmanning? I can't find where Jack said either of these things. Though he's kind of implied what kylith attributed to him.

Re: what Brian quoted:

Jack Kyle wrote: »

I think that it's wrong to murder an unborn baby. Some theoretical woman thinks that it's okay to have that unborn baby butchered. I'm pretty confident that my opinion is right.

And re: my further remarks:

Jack Kyle wrote: »

There are numerous examples of posters basically saying that they want to copulate without consequences.

What makes certain people morally superior is the fact that in the event of an unwanted pregnancy, they'd "get on with it" rather than killing the resulting unborn child.

And if you can't deal with the consequences because of health or financial reasons, then either:

- Abstain, or

- Get sterilised.

Abortion is a consequence of selfish self indulgent hedonistic behaviour.

Jack Kyle wrote: »

You see there's the crutch that the pro abortion side seek to misuse.

This is really about Hedonists who want to copulate to their hearts content safe in the knowledge that they can just dispose of any resulting baby.

But the poor rape victims or Savitas of this world are used as Trojan horses to facilitate the amoral majority to live without consequences or accountability.

Jack Kyle wrote: »

lazygal, your post is facetious in the extreme.

Did you know that an unborn child's heart starts beating at 20 days?

Or that brainwaves can be detected from an unborn baby at 40 days?

But let's legalise the widespread killing of unborn children just so hedonistic adults can rut like beasts with zero accountability...

He went a bit further than implying, I think.

gaynorvader · 03-10-2013 2:56pm

kylith wrote: »

Re: what Brian quoted:
{...}
And re: my further remarks:
{...}
He went a bit further than implying, I think.

Fair enough, I didn't read closely enough it seems. I'm just always wary when I see "Mr.X believes Y".

Turtwig · 03-10-2013 2:58pm

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Jack I think I've asked you this before (it may have been JC), and if you were the questionee then shame on you for not answering.

But how many babies which would have been aborted foetuses otherwise have you personally adopted?

I find it strange most times an anti-abortionist talks about adoption being the answer for all the unwanted foetuses, when put up to them that they should personally adopt they run a mile.

No poster is obligated to answer any question about their own personal lives. So no it's not "shame on them" for not answering. In fact, no poster is being shameful for not answering any post a user posts. Obviously if soap boxing comes into play there are issues. But in general, whether or not your agree with a person's opinion they are giving their free time to post here. So, every poster, including Jack, doesn't have to respond to an individual post if they so wish. There's nothing shameful about that either!

It only becomes shameful if they're responding in a negative manner that is destructive for the discussion in question.

Brian Shanahan · 03-10-2013 2:58pm

Jack Kyle wrote: »

Irish people are forced to the far corners of the world to find children to adopt.

Adoption rather than abortion is a solution.

And yes, perhaps the taxpayer should subsidise the sterilisation of these people.

Jack I think I've asked you this before (it may have been JC), and if you were the questionee then shame on you for not answering.

But how many babies which would have been aborted foetuses otherwise have you personally adopted?

I find it strange most times an anti-abortionist talks about adoption being the answer for all the unwanted foetuses, when put up to them that they should personally adopt they run a mile.

kylith · 03-10-2013 3:00pm

gaynorvader wrote: »

Fair enough, I didn't read closely enough it seems. I'm just always wary when I see "Mr.X believes Y".

No worries. I think this is the #1 forum for encouraging you not to believe everything you hear/see/read!

Obliq · 03-10-2013 3:19pm

Obliq wrote: »

Can't take it on board though, as he's just another extremist from the same mold as the "meat is murder" veggies. He hasn't yet explained what exactly is so special about a human embryo life (at 12 weeks, if you like Jack....) compared to the typical animal life killed for human consumption........

Jack, I'm reposting this from yesterday because I realise I haven't asked you this outright. I would really like to hear your answer to my question in bold, above. Thanks....

Brian Shanahan · 03-10-2013 3:22pm

mbiking123 wrote: »

less of the religious stuff

If you don't want religion brought up, then you shouldn't bring it up!

You're the only one on this thread bringing religion into the discussion.

Turtwig · 03-10-2013 3:22pm

Silvio, sorry Jack, is on a permanent holiday.

Obliq · 03-10-2013 3:33pm

Jernal wrote: »

Silvio, sorry Jack, is on a permanent holiday.

Was that him again? Feck, that's a relief there aren't actually more like him. Phew! Big sigh of relief and bikkies for everyone

Who was it annoyed him so much he crossed the line then? Pleeeease let it be me (but it was probably Kylith - well done you!)!

Turtwig · 03-10-2013 3:37pm

Obliq wrote: »

Was that him again? Feck, that's a relief there aren't actually more like him. Phew! Big sigh of relief and bikkies for everyone

Yeah, I want a couple of hours back. Between a DRP, several long PM exchanges and thread tidying.

Obliq · 03-10-2013 3:38pm

Jernal wrote: »

Yeah, I want a couple of hours back. Between a DRP, several long PM exchanges and thread tidying.

Jaysus, don't fancy your job Jernal :eek:

kylith · 03-10-2013 3:49pm

Obliq wrote: »

Was that him again? Feck, that's a relief there aren't actually more like him. Phew! Big sigh of relief and bikkies for everyone

Who was it annoyed him so much he crossed the line then? Pleeeease let it be me (but it was probably Kylith - well done you!)!

I'd like to think so, but I really don't think I have what it takes. I think it was a collaborative effort

lazygal · 03-10-2013 3:51pm

kylith wrote: »

I'd like to think so, but I really don't think I have what it takes. I think it was a collaborative effort

Yeah I think its a team win.

PopePalpatine · 03-10-2013 3:51pm

Jernal wrote: »

Silvio, sorry Jack, is on a permanent holiday.

I'm unsurprised to hear they're one and the same person, given Jack's comments about same-sex couples adopting children in AH.

robindch · 03-10-2013 3:55pm

Obliq wrote: »

Jaysus, don't fancy your job Jernal

It's a collaborative job -- behind the scenes, all the mods are paddling away furiously underwater, while up above, the swan of state glides by with barely a ripple

Sarky · 03-10-2013 4:09pm

Jernal wrote: »

Silvio, sorry Jack, is on a permanent holiday.

I just *knew* there weren't enough nutters with opinions that insane to account for all of the accounts calling us murder advocates!

Mods/admins with clever muppet-seeking technology ftw. GG shots pld all!

Virgil° · 03-10-2013 4:15pm

Dunno if its against the rules or not to point out(sorry if it is) but hes over in prison either lying his heart out or unaware of his multiple personality disorder.

Should be a good read at any rate.

mbiking123 · 03-10-2013 4:20pm

Nodin wrote: »

Peter "rosary beads" Mathews leaves FG
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1003/478103-peter-mathews-fine-gael/

Can't see too many being sorry about it. Hopefully his next departure will be from the Dail.

Peter never brought religion into it, he voted against the bill because of his conscience

Gloating on others misfortune, no wonder yee approve of ending life, no respect at all

Enda Kenny promised he would never pass such a motion through the Dail and he did. pack of liar's, labour way not Frankfurts way

Peter one of the few that was good to his words

COP ON !

Sarky · 03-10-2013 4:23pm

I bet you also believe the claptrap about Fine Gael having made a "pro life promise" when that's actually a lie perpetuated by the Life Institute/Youth Defence's flying monkeys.

Abortion Discussion

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