Abortion Discussion

old hippy

lazygal wrote: »

And baby Jebus too.

If only Mary had aborted Jesus. I mean, just think. We'd have none of this opposition and piety over simple medical procedures.

Brian Shanahan

TheChizler wrote: »

And the ones without brains or hearts or lungs?

Ah, they'll be our future Special Olympians. If Brian Ó Domhnaill says kids with no brains or no lungs can live therefore it must be true, him being a senator.

aloyisious

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Ah, they'll be our future Special Olympians. If Brian Ó Domhnaill says kids with no brains or no lungs can live therefore it must be true, him being a senator.

That make's me want to shout "asss....ho...ole" at the top of my lungs.

mbiking123

TheChizler wrote: »

And the ones without brains or hearts or lungs?

'I was told to abort my healthy baby': Mother, 38, sues hospital after 'brain dead' son was born kicking and breathing


Mother-of-two Sarah Hagan is suing City Hospitals Sunderland
Says that during her 24-week scan she was told baby Aaron was 'brain dead', had just one eye and had 'no chance of survival'

She claims that doctors advised her to take termination drugs

When they didn't work, she saw another doctor at the hospital who told her the baby needed to be delivered immediately
Aaron was born weighing just 1lb 7oz with both eyes and now, at 15-months-old, he is developing as any other boy his age would
His premature birth has left him with chronic lung problems however


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2409819/Mother-Sarah-Hagan-sues-hospital-brain-dead-son-born-kicking-breathing.html#ixzz2hvO4ctdY

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Ah, they'll be our future Special Olympians. If Brian Ó Domhnaill says kids with no brains or no lungs can live therefore it must be true, him being a senator.

Hospital bosses have apologised after two pregnant women were wrongly told that their unborn babies were dead during routine scans, it was disclosed today.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/women-wrongly-told-unborn-babies-were-dead-2101413.html

old hippy wrote: »

If only Mary had aborted Jesus. I mean, just think. We'd have none of this opposition and piety over simple medical procedures.

According to WLS News, the baby, Noah Guzman, was not alive when his mother and father arrived at the hospital in an ambulance. Jocelyn Robinson, Noah’s mother, was suffering severe pregnancy complications. When doctors performed an ultrasound (twice), they couldn’t find a heartbeat.
“Another doctor came in and said, ‘I’m sorry, your baby passed. We can’t find the heartbeat,’” Jocelyn told ABC 7 news.......................................................................... Noah’s parents couldn’t be more thankful for what they’re calling their miracle baby, who they thought they had lost.

Guess doctors get it wrong - but as they say dead men tell no tales or maybe dead babies tell no tales ?

oldrnwisr wrote: »

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make



So, your post filled with as much emotion and scaremongering as it is, isn't really an argument against legal abortion. In fact, it's not really an argument against anything.

No scaremongering just facts

robindch

mbiking123 wrote: »

Mother-of-two Sarah Hagan is suing City Hospitals Sunderland Says that during her 24-week scan she was told baby Aaron was 'brain dead', had just one eye and had 'no chance of survival'

mbiking - a word to the wise here, but when quoting from a reliable news source, or some tendentious rag like the Daily Mail, it's conventional to put the text you copy in quote marks, just to show that the words aren't yours. Lest people think that you wrote that dreadful "article" yourself and mentally mark you down for it.

mbiking123 wrote: »

Guess doctors get it wrong

No great surprises there, since I expect most of us believe that they do from time to time. That's to assume, btw, that mother-of-two Sarah Hagan is not being economical with the truth.

BTW, I'm wondering what baby Aaron might think in fifteen years time, if he googles for his mother-of-two's name "Sarah Hagan" and finds out that she "almost got rid of him". Seems rather brave of mother-of-two Sarah Hagan to cast herself at the mercy of the Daily Mail and the wider internet like that.

mbiking123

Sarky wrote: »

I have a confession: Whenever I see someone here post something stupid, I skip ahead a few posts to see if oldrnwisr has torn it to shreds already.

Oh, give over

mbiking123

robindch wrote: »

mbiking - a word to the wise here,.

Save it, very obvious what side of the fence your on !

robindch

mbiking123 wrote: »

No scaremongering just facts

And you quote some piece of Daily Mail tat and then say that? There ain't no facepalm big enough.

mbiking123 wrote: »

Save it, very obvious what side of the fence your on!

Interesting you should say that since my post doesn't reference my point of view which I've made clear much earlier in this thread.

.

Turtwig

Because I really do not wish to delete a whole marathon of posts this time and because mbiking didn't heed prior warning and also because he's not contributing any of his replies to users in a manner constructive to discussion he's been given a weeks holidays.

Obliq

mbiking123 wrote: »

Guess doctors get it wrong ...........................................



No scaremongering just facts

Yes, I guess they do sometimes. That's generally why there are 2nd and 3rd opinions sought.

And what are these facts supposed to convey to us, eh? That because of these cases where doctors have been proven wrong, then ALL cases of fatal foetal abnormality could be wrong and therefore the pregnant woman should bring the baby to term (and a MOST probable horrible few minutes/hours/days of uncomfortable life)? Y'know, people are usually kinder to themselves and their potential offspring than that, and going by what information they've been given (and probably sought 2nd opinions on) will do whatever they feel is the right thing for them all. Without your heavy-handed moralising having reached their ears, hopefully. It's a tragic and harsh enough situation without your "help".....

Obliq

Jernal wrote: »

Because I really do not wish to delete a whole marathon of posts this time and because mbiking didn't heed prior warning and also because he's not contributing any of his replies to users in a manner constructive to discussion he's been given a weeks holidays.

Oh. Too late, dammit. Delete away

Brian Shanahan

mbiking123 wrote: »

Hospital bosses have apologised after two pregnant women were wrongly told that their unborn babies were dead during routine scans, it was disclosed today.

Well, if humanity were right more often you wouldn't be religious. But that still doesn't alter the fact that a current Irish senator believes that children can life without the use of organs necessary for life, and that we shouldn't remove foeti which have no chance of life and a significant chance of severley hurting the mother, just in case zombies are real.

Frito

"depriving future Special Olympic athletes of being born"

Sheesh that's another five hoops to jump through before you can get disability benefit. Damn cutbacks.

Cabaal

This is like a Youth Defense wet dream

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24532694

El Salvador has one of the toughest anti-abortion laws in the world. A side-effect is that women who suffer miscarriages are sometimes suspected of inducing an abortion - and can even be jailed for murder.

From the story

It was the first she knew about the pregnancy as her menstrual cycle was unbroken, her weight practically unchanged, and a pregnancy test in May 2012 had been negative.

Four days later she was charged with aggravated murder - intentionally murdering the 38-to-42 week foetus - at a court hearing she was too sick to attend. The hospital had reported her to the police for a suspected abortion.

.......Then last month she was sentenced to 10 years in jail, the judge ruling that she should have saved the baby's life.

....and yet the prosecution....sought a 50-year jail term......

aloyisious

Speaking of the above post, our President (Michael D) is going on a three country trip to that region today, and will apparently be in El Salvador talking at conferences/meeting about human rights there, along with giving awards to people for their civil-rights works.

Morag

There are a few quiet candle lit vigils happening on Monday as it's a year from the death of
Savita Halappanavar, Dublin 6pm at St Stephens green, Cork 6pm at the Opera House and
in Galway. Those wishing to go to the one in Galway should contact Galway Pro Choice.

rainbow kirby

BPAS advertising in the Irish times today - "We'll care for your women until your government does"

link

robindch

^^^

GCU Flexible Demeanour

rainbow kirby wrote: »

BPAS advertising in the Irish times today - "We'll care for your women until your government does"

link

It's a good line, and a welcome development to see a necessary connection being made.

But, when we read it, I think we have to adjust it to see what it should say:

"We'll care for your women until you do"

iwantmydinner

Breaking News posted a link to tthe ad on their fb page. The comments underneath... Smh

mbiking123

rainbow kirby wrote: »

BPAS advertising in the Irish times today - "We'll care for your women until your government does"

link

Ya, same people send British women to Barcelona for late abortions

Bannasidhe

mbiking123 wrote: »

Ya, same people send British women to Barcelona for late abortions

Linky?

mbiking123

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Linky?

as requested http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/1473766/British-Pregnancy-Advisory-Service-helps-women-get-illegal-abortions.html

'British Pregnancy Advisory Service helps women get illegal abortions'

Delirium

mbiking123 wrote: »

as requested http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/1473766/British-Pregnancy-Advisory-Service-helps-women-get-illegal-abortions.html

'British Pregnancy Advisory Service helps women get illegal abortions'

have you any evidence they still engage in this? the story linked to is 9 years old.

mbiking123

koth wrote: »

have you any evidence they still engage in this? the story linked to is 9 years old.

are you looking for some kind of court action evidence, police etc ?

Due to the fact that no law was broken, there is no reason to suggest it no longer happens

Delirium

if no law was broken, how is it illegal?

Turtwig

After long and anguished debate on this, the view of Parliament is absolutely clear, as is the British law. If there is evidence that the will of Parliament is being thwarted and that the law of a fellow European country is being broken by an organisation in receipt of public money, this would be a very serious situation indeed. If The Sunday Telegraph lets me have the material I will ask that this matter is looked into immediately.

So what came of this? If anything. The article isn't greatly written. This was 2004 so surely something more substantial happened on the face of these allegations. Or the allegations were baseless and nothing illegal was occurring.

mbiking123

koth wrote: »

if no law was broken, how is it illegal?

'In late 2004, the British newspaper The Daily Telegraph presented a video to the British government (Health Secretary Dr John Reid and Chief Medical Officer Professor Sir Liam Donaldson) showing BPAS counsellors referring women whose pregnancies were too advanced for legal abortions in Britain (past 24 weeks) to a clinic in Barcelona, Spain.[4] A report filed by the Chief Medical Officer for England, Professor Sir Liam Donaldson, in September, 2005 was critical of some aspects of BPAS counselling, but concluded that, in the matter of BPAS staff referring (in the broad sense, not the strict medical definition) women with late-term pregnancies to the Ginemedex clinic, BPAS had not broken any laws. The report stated unequivocally that BPAS's ability to provide abortion and reproductive counselling and services (within its mandate) had not in any way been compromised, and that no changes in funding should result. It further stated however, that protocol for late-term abortion counselling was sorely lacking, and that the government and interested agencies must develop said protocol with all possible speed. [5]'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Pregnancy_Advisory_Service

Turtwig

BPAS had not broken any laws

So nothing illegal then.

mbiking123

Jernal wrote: »

So nothing illegal then.

Ah come on

I only said they were involved in people going to Spain for a late abortion, I was asked for a link, so I gave one

I gave a link, it backed up what I said ! I never said it was illegal that was the headline- not my headline !!!!!!

first of all you rubbish the daily mail

take it up with the publisher please - Jernal