EU votes to ban e-cigs! Tobacco to stay legal!

ardle1

worded wrote: »

Why no just give up smoking and this shi1t. Are you men or mice ?

Some will power is all that's needed.

I wasn't even gonna acknowledge your comment but I will,because hard as it is to believe,some people (like your kind self)still in 2013 don't seem to understand the addiction of tobacco, put it like this.. Would You make a similiar comment to a heroin user who had just entered into a methadone clinic? WELL WOULD YOU! Because that's how hard it is to "give up" for some smokers no actually MOST smokers.

redkid

rock whore wrote: »

"The products covered by EU legislation will be extended and clarified; for example electronic cigarettes containing nicotine over a certain threshold will only be allowed if they have been authorised as pharmaceuticals"

so it would depend on the strength of your juice.

This is not a "ban" or anywhere near it. DON'T PANIC.
e-cigs are not being targeted here in isolation. they are seen a products that are smoking-related, which is what they are.

Read the synopsis of the bill and it should put your mind at rest some.

as said already, the hardware will not be banned. some juices, probably the tastier ones, will be. but not all. and what is left on the market after regulation comes into force will be better labelled, probably ISO9000 standard and we will know better what we are inhaling.

unless this is handled in the very worst possible way, it should have little impact on your vaping

You are correct it is not a outright ban, but for the likes of us who are vaping for quite some time before the regulation comes in, it is in essence an ban on how we vape, with the restrictions juice sizes and nic content and especially flavors it will massively effect the e juice supply chain

worded

I see this vape sh1t as concreting a nicotine addiction. People on these have it almost permanently hanging out of their mouths.

Said it before and will say it again, man up an give it up.

tommy2bad

rock whore wrote: »

"The products covered by EU legislation will be extended and clarified; for example electronic cigarettes containing nicotine over a certain threshold will only be allowed if they have been authorised as pharmaceuticals"

so it would depend on the strength of your juice.

This is not a "ban" or anywhere near it. DON'T PANIC.
e-cigs are not being targeted here in isolation. they are seen a products that are smoking-related, which is what they are.

Read the synopsis of the bill and it should put your mind at rest some.

as said already, the hardware will not be banned. some juices, probably the tastier ones, will be. but not all. and what is left on the market after regulation comes into force will be better labelled, probably ISO9000 standard and we will know better what we are inhaling.

unless this is handled in the very worst possible way, it should have little impact on your vaping

Have to be suspicious of this response! ^

Firstly the TPD as passed yesterday has been amended to cover all ecig regardless of nic content. It dose not depend on the strength of the juice.

This is a BAN, ecigs are not being seen as tobacco related, they are being clasified as medicine. The MHRA have stated that no existing product will get a licence so everything we now use will be removed from sale.

How about you read the full text of the bill, I have oh and do read the important amendments.

Hardware will most likely be included in this as it will become a drug delivery device and as such will also require medical licencing.

Do some research, if this comes into force as it stands it will not just have an effect it will end vaping as we know it.

tommy2bad

P_1 wrote: »

The fact that the directive actually breaks EU law would hopefully ensure that any potential ban will take its sweet time to come in

Rebecca Taylor mep has tweeted that she heard a romour that they intend changing the existing legislation on medicines to make this legal before the next vote.
Big guns are out against us.

tommy2bad

Funny how the anti vaping trolls and the pro regs trolls turn up the day after the vote. Lobbying might be the only tool in the pharma box.

grindle

worded wrote: »

I see this vape sh1t as concreting a nicotine addiction. People on these have it almost permanently hanging out of their mouths.

Said it before and will say it again, man up an give it up.

You "see" this without knowing anything about it. The addiction and severity of the cravings is very much lessened. If it's hanging permanently out of somebody's mouth it's a good sign they've gone for too low a dosage from the off. There's also the probable illusion that they're using it more often because they're taking a puff or two every five minutes rather than a cig every half hour.

You're ignoring the fact that most of us like the habit.
You sound like a nanny, should I man up and give up alcohol as well?

Pique

Thinking about it again, 0mg nic flavours will be exempt. The hardware will be OK, so all we need it nic base.

grindle

Exactly. And there'll always be someone willing to send it to us, but it's a major inconvenience to newbies.

Mr. Chrome

Im not too worried about this....yet. As said.. stock up on nic base, and Im sure there will still be ways of getting your hands on the stuff. Where theres a will theres a way!
Cant see how the can ban pg/vg and flavorings, seriously, how can they ban a flavour?!
As for mods and egos, stick a bulb on the end and its a torch. Attys could become electronic incense dispensers ;-)
I know of a head shop that sell crack pipes, not bongs but actual crack pipes, but if you ask what they are you will be told there ornaments!


Im kinda worried about how guards will treat them, as in what happens if your vaping in public. Cops will have to uphold the law wether they agree with it or not.
I know ill be breaking the law but its just one more for the naughty list.
Are cops gonna be raiding houses, busting people for nic base? It would look pretty stupid in front of a judge, but then again...it would be law so who knows.

Im sure if I went to my doc he would give me a prescription for nic which should cover me for vaping in public.

I could be talking out my arse but thats how I see it atm. Besides, if it does happen, its years away and we have time to figure out what to do.
I think the people that really should be worried are the vendors that make most of their money from selling juice.

Its too nice of a day to be worrying about this bull**** ban. :-)
Sorry, started writing this before I saw the top two posts :-)

tommy2bad

Pique wrote: »

Thinking about it again, 0mg nic flavours will be exempt. The hardware will be OK, so all we need it nic base.

Again this is wrong. As things stand their is no mention of nic limits and the possibility of including 0% nic is there as the vendor will have to prove 0%nic.
Also once nic is a medicine then the delivery device becomes a drug delivery system and had to be licensed as such.
The wording of the TPD is such that only sealed units consisting of a disposable battery with an non refillable non removable carto will be the only ones to get a licence. This is the design that is currently undergoing the process.

Obviously a mod that comes without any carto or juice will not be included, nor will PG or VG but getting nic could be classed as smuggling. How much do you think you will need to stock up to last your now longer life?

tommy2bad

Im sure if I went to my doc he would give me a prescription for nic which should cover me for vaping in public.

He'll give you a prescription for a licensed ecig, not nic, he cant prescribe something that isn't legal.
It is too nice a day to be worrying about this, that's why they do it in the summer just before their holidays. Managing this kind of thing is what Linda McAvian is good at.
And too nice to be stuck in front of this PC but needs must, rescission paupers cant be choosers. We can wast time on the bosses dime though.

redkid

Think fully about this and the implications of this so called regulation, it will actually harm people's health not improve it and these are the elected people responsible for our welfare and they are actually clueless and in many cases being influenced by big tobacco industries which is actually who e cigs hurt most, them and the revenue commissioners. Don't be so naive to think theese people give a fcuk about anyone or their health.


It's actually laughable

Who agrees.

Green Hornet

Right - so does that mean that for example we can still get all of the hardware like blank or filled with 0 nic cartos, clearo's etc and RBA's and mods from the usual vendors (if they still have a market obviously)? I'm sure demand will drop sugnificantly though and supply of consumables will diminish until no longer viable for vendors. Probably a good idea for people who don't have mech mods or RBA's to think about getting them then because even cartos etc will need to be imported if local vendors disappear.

redkid

Green Hornet wrote: »

Right - so does that mean that for example we can still get all of the hardware like blank or filled with 0 nic cartos, clearo's etc and RBA's and mods from the usual vendors (if they still have a market obviously)? I'm sure demand will drop sugnificantly though and supply of consumables will diminish until no longer viable for vendors. Probably a good idea for people who don't have mech mods or RBA's to think about getting them then because even cartos etc will need to be imported if local vendors disappear.

No effectively all these devices will be deemed illegal because as earlier pointed out they will be used for the delivery of drugs so will not be legally available.

Myrddin

worded wrote: »

I see this vape sh1t as concreting a nicotine addiction. People on these have it almost permanently hanging out of their mouths.

So if 'politicians' are so concerned about health, why isn't nicotine being banned? Oh thats right, they generate huge amounts of money from the sale of it, the ecigs are cutting into revenue generation & the Tobacco lobby is up there with Big Oil for being some of the most powerful lobbies on the planet. Silly me.

According to an RTE tv advertisement, one in two smokers will die of a smoking related disease. So essentially, there's a 50% chance smoking will kill you. If you want to ban something, you ban that.

And no I'm not a smoker, nor a vaper...just someone who can see the bigger picture.

Green Hornet

redkid wrote: »

No effectively all these devices will be deemed illegal because as earlier pointed out they will be used for the delivery of drugs so will not be legally available.

In the case of an RBA though, all you need is some wire and cotton wool or wick. They can't ban those. If you have a mech mod you just need batteris and they can't ban those.

I suppose what I'm saying is that if you have a good quality RBA and mech mod you will be fine in terms of PV.

Consumables like cartos, clearo's will become obsolete though.

Pique

redkid wrote: »

No effectively all these devices will be deemed illegal because as earlier pointed out they will be used for the delivery of drugs so will not be legally available.

Rubbish. a vapouriser can have many different things in it. That nebuliser in the hospital? Same thing. If they are gonna get medieval on vapers, then the law could accidentally include those things also.
Bongs are legal as you 'can' use it for legal purposes.
e-cigs are the same. You can use flavoured pg (like half of SoCal seem to be doing apparently) with no nic and it's like a portable hookah.

tommy2bad

Pique wrote: »

Rubbish. a vapouriser can have many different things in it. That nebuliser in the hospital? Same thing. If they are gonna get medieval on vapers, then the law could accidentally include those things also.
Bongs are legal as you 'can' use it for legal purposes.
e-cigs are the same. You can use flavoured pg (like half of SoCal seem to be doing apparently) with no nic and it's like a portable hookah.

The neutralizer is a licensed device, like the asthma inhalers. The law already covers those things. Ever wonder why an asthma inhaler costs so much, it's just a pez dispenser really? In fact it would be better in some cool colors and shapes except that cool colors and shapes are not aloud under licencing law. Like NRT is in boring colors and shapes and limited flavors. It's a condition of licencing.

This is the whole point, regulation is good if it regulates the product for what it is. medicine as medicine and toasters as electrical goods. Ecigs are not medicines and should be regulated as general goods. The reason for medicine regulation is because it's so restrictive it will efectly kill of the ecig market or reduce it's appeal to the level of NRT and probably it's effectiveness.

redkid

Pique wrote: »

Rubbish. a vapouriser can have many different things in it. That nebuliser in the hospital? Same thing. If they are gonna get medieval on vapers, then the law could accidentally include those things also.
Bongs are legal as you 'can' use it for legal purposes.
e-cigs are the same. You can use flavoured pg (like half of SoCal seem to be doing apparently) with no nic and it's like a portable hookah.

It's not rubbish, read the proposal. Nebulisers and inhailers are not being bought and used for things other than their medicinal purpose there is no comparison.

Sam Kade

deco nate wrote: »

feck off will ya!:)we enjoy it
if you dont fair play.
but dont tell us what to do,
we can make our own minds up,
and we chose to vape.
no harm to anyone else.
do you know what you are
talkin about?i dont think so...

I thought this was going to be a rhyme until I realized none of the words rhymed

grindle

Sam Kade wrote: »

I thought this was going to be a rhyme until I realized none of the words rhymed

deco's an avant-garde poet, you just don't get it maaaaaan. *snaps fingers*

P.I.T.A

Cant see what all the fuss is about, even their own legal committee advised them that the EU plans were illegal.
Twill be kicked out when it gets to court.

scamalert

dont see any fuss about this at all,firstly all stuff comes from china,except some fancy devices and liquids,and since most e cigs are made of at least two parts battery and (liquid tank) dont see how that could be banned,and since liquids come from abroad its matter of packing them correctly.Might cause a lil bit of trouble but nothing too big of a fuss if it happens.

Pique

Sure there may be workarounds, but why should there need to be?

If a smoker switches to e-cigs, and inhales thousands less of the potentially deadly chemicals in cigarettes, that can only be a good thing.
There is no good health reason why they should be banned or 'regulated' to the benefit of the tobacco companies who are releasing their own disposable e-cigs now too. No doubt, they will have the money to have the relevant licences and choice will drop for the newer converts.

It's interesting that James Reilly, our fabulous minister for health, met with the tobacco companies recently.
Why would a health minister meet with the manufacturers of one of the deadliest products on the market only a couple of months before an EU vote on something that threatens their profits and yet reduces harm to the users?

I'm disgusted, but, alas, Jack's total lack of surprise.

scamalert

No doubt that cig companies have people paid to get e cigs of the market,considering that to make 100 cigarettes costs less tan 1$,
Only argument would be that there isn't enough research on long term vaping,same as with cigarette smokers most people can smoke 20-30 years risk free some last lifetime,but its up to genes,and now we know most stuff what causes cancer in them.But yes if anything should be banned or restricted is normal cigarettes should be sold in pharmacies or the likes.But since e-cigs are most evolving market now and poses huge risk towards tobacco companies,who are known to work together in such matters and have millions if not billions on their disposal to bribe and stop any new acts or laws towards their share.

redkid

I'm a firm believer in nothing should be banned, let people make their own choices.

Oh except d1ckheads that ban the wrong things....... They should be banned.

tommy2bad

scamalert wrote: »

No doubt that cig companies have people paid to get e cigs of the market,considering that to make 100 cigarettes costs less tan 1$,
Only argument would be that there isn't enough research on long term vaping,same as with cigarette smokers most people can smoke 20-30 years risk free some last lifetime,but its up to genes,and now we know most stuff what causes cancer in them.But yes if anything should be banned or restricted is normal cigarettes should be sold in pharmacies or the likes.But since e-cigs are most evolving market now and poses huge risk towards tobacco companies,who are known to work together in such matters and have millions if not billions on their disposal to bribe and stop any new acts or laws towards their share.

This no long term research bullspit again! All of the ingredients in ecigs except the flavorings have been tested for long term use including use by inhalation.
Pg is approved for long term inhalation, even if it wasn't we have 50 years of data from fog machines to use to estimate the risk. Nicotine is safe for long term use and is already medically approved for such. That is not to say that they are 100% safe just that on a population level their is no statistical health risk.
Flavors are another kettle of fish, some are not safe and in fact proven cancer causing*, google popcorn lung.
After 7 years and millions of users without any recorded fatality or serious medical report attributed to ecigs, I think we can safely say that the risk associated with ecigs is so small as to be negligible. As to comparing ecigs with smoking? Come on, do I need to answer that?
And the argument that it took years to discover that smoking caused helth affects is null as the level and capability of testing was so far behind what we have now that that argument is irrelevant and frankly just scaremongering or clutching at straws for a cautious approach.

In other words your right!

* Damn spellcheck wont throw up anything for carsenonegenic!

Lucutus

I found the timing of this announcement to be interesting.

drunkmonkey

Lucutus wrote: »

I found the timing of this announcement to be interesting.

Maybe they've developed a form of champix to get people off Vape..