Do you think its fair parents bring young babies on flights for a holiday ?

XxMCRxBabyxX

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Also think its a little unfair to bring young babies to very warm climates.

What about babies who are born in warm climates? What are they meant to do?

bumper234

I will be flying out in August with an 18 month old. This is the 4th time he has flown and 1st 3 times were fine, bought ipad and other things to keep him occupied (he like to use the drawing app makes him giggle). We only fly to Liverpool (oh parents live there) but i think as long as you are prepared you should be ok, besides it's not like we can put them in the luggage hold:eek:

Meangadh

It's not so much the flight part with kids, but more that I don't see the point of bringing a small child on a sun holiday or even foreign holidays in general. They won't appreciate or remember it at all. I know the parents might like a bit of sun but I've seen people overseas with small kids on holidays and it looks more like work than a holiday- besides how dangerous the sun is for their delicate skin. Obviously sometimes travel due to emigration etc can't be avoided.

Also I don't mean to sound old fashioned but when we were younger my parents brought us on holidays to places like Wexford, Clare, Cork, Kerry and Galway and to be honest we'd probably have better memories from those than the odd time we went abroad.

I was down in Dunmore East a few summers ago and there was a dad (I assume) with his little girl, she was about 3. The weather was only ok, dry but overcast. She had a little wetsuit on and I've never seen a happier little girl splashing around having a ball- she wouldn't have known or cared whether she was in Waterford or Tenerife. I just think you're better off saving the foreign holidays till they're a little older to appreciate it.

Wabbit Ears

Many of my family and friends live abroad and have kids, they travel to and from Ireland regularly.
Many people are married to non-irish nationals who go home to their families on occasion with the kids.
Many People work abroad and their family come and visit them.

My kid was on 6 different flights before she was 1 year old and none of them for 'holidays'.

How can the OP possibly not understand that Ireland is an Island and flying is by far the easiest and fastest means of transport.

I recently drove to Poland, took 3 days with the kids, a flight from door to door would be about 5 hrs all told..

lazygal

We've brought our lass on a few flights. Once you're organised its not that difficult and shouldn't really be disruptive for others. We don't have a screamer anyway, if our child was very difficult we'd look at other ways of traveling but she's slept most of the flights we've taken. Older children who are let kick seats and run riot are far more irritating.

BobMc

How Strange wrote: »

Maybe you should ask your continental friends if it is 'fair' to bring young babies on a 20 hour car journey to Spain or France or wherever. Personally I'd prefer a 2-4 hour flight with a young baby than a painfully long car journey in an overpacked car.

I've brought my son on a few flights and except for one 6.30am flight he was as good as gold and not a peep out of him. On the other hand, the grumpy f*cker in front of us on one flight who kept kicking his seat back and hitting my son in the head made a complete show of himself and I now feel grumpy f*ckers should be banned from flying.

We met a couple in france (St.Just-Luzac Charente-Maritime France) from holland wives got chatting at the pool as kids where playing together, they were astounded at the cost we incurred just to get to the same holiday destination, they left holland at night time, kids slept in car and 8-10 hrs later they are in the same spot for the price of a couple tanks of petrol, unfair to kids no, as for planes, we've had ours on planes from a young age and someone else stated they are your problem not other passengers, be prepared control them as best you can but have consideration for other passengers and likewise i expect that consideration back, both now 6/9 heading off next week it because its not a new experience they'll be great, own bags, packed lunch and snacks some money to buy a drink onboard tablets with games and movies they wont be a bother to anyone, its the ones who sit and get pissed and extort sure they're only kids what can we do are the out and out assholes and thats coming from a parent

jmayo

keithclancy wrote: »

I've heard mixed opinions on this one.

Basically on the continent (I work in Germany and live in the Netherlands) most people I know wouldn't dream on going on a flight with a young baby (young meaning under a year old), mainly because:

A. Babies can't/don't know how to equalise and it can be very painful even as an adult if you are congested etc when flying.

B. There's plenty of places you can drive to or simply go on a holiday close by with the ferry.

C. They simply stay at home and use their days off to spend time at home doing stuff and organise activities to do in the local area, they'll put off foreign holiday altogether until the kids are old enough to carry their own stuff, understand whats going on.

D. Travelling anywhere with a baby when you don't have a car is a pain in the hole.

In Ireland I've seen the complete polar opposite, with people going off to Mediterranean destinations with babies a few months old.

Why is this the case ?

Myself, I don't see the point, why put yourself and your child through that much hassle just to get a bit of fun in the sun, Ireland has some great spots to go to and enjoy yourself without flying anywhere.

Here sunshine (what an apt term in this case) the reason people in Ireland do this is because we live on a fooking island.
You are on about people in Holland using campervans.
Well bright spark they can drive down to south of France, Italy or even Spain.
We have to take a flight or face a very expensive ferry ride (yes it is damm expensive Ireland to France at height of season) plus a drive of at least 10 plus hours added to it to get to anywhere near the south of France nevermind Spain or Italy.

A lot of Irish people would stay at home if we had any decent weather, as in the last couple of weeks.
But normally we don't and it is never guaranteed.
You know maybe people with families would actually like to see a bit of sun for a week or two of the year.

Come back to us when you live in ireland, have kids and have been looking at pi**ing rain in kerry or Galway for two fooking weeks.

The Backwards Man wrote: »

There are many circumstances where it is necessary for people to fly with young children in my opinion, going on holiday isn't one of them. I'd include children up to at least seven years of age in that.

So people with families should not fly, particularly for holidays.
Is that what you are saying ?
Get this little point through your head, whilst some of the kids may be over 7 others may not.
Are parents meant to wait until all the kids are in their teens before they go on a decent foreign holiday ?

The Backwards Man wrote: »

You could have spent the first year of your life in Disneyworld and you wouldn't remember a single solitary thing about it.

What's the point?

Yeah but the babies siblings may be 5, 10 or 13.
Should they not get a chance to experience it ?

keithclancy wrote: »

Not a theory, its based on having a groups of friends/acquaintances from three different countries.

Also if you saw the amount of Dutch Campervans/Caravans in the summer you'd get the idea.

I never said they should be, simply asked do you think its fair on a young baby when they have no choice.

Do you have a map of Europe or even look up google earth/maps and then see if you can spot the blue stuff that surrounds Ireland but doesn't surrond Holland, Germany, etc.

That is fooking water mate and unless you have a special campervan you would get very wet driving it from Dublin to Nice.
Of course you could take a ferry which only adds €1600 odd to your trip cost.

Let me ask the posters who are anti kids flying if they have any kids ?
And yes it does make a difference and causes one to start thinking about other things rather than your-fooking-selves.

PS I have flown with kids but over last couple of years have taken ferry since you can pack more stuff for them and it is less hassel than airports.
I have always endeavoured to make sure my kids don't annoy other people, but reasoning with 2/3 old is not always easy.
And yes there are those parents that don't give a sh**, just like they are those numpties who seem to think anyone with kids should not be allowed have a life at all.
Just rememebr my kids will probably (hopefully at least) be the taxpayers of the future contributing to your healthcare and nappies you will be wearing when you will be pi**ing in your pants in a dodgy hospital.
Hell I might even hope one of them may even be doctor that is giving you a jab in your wringly old ar**es.

syklops

Meangadh wrote: »

It's not so much the flight part with kids, but more that I don't see the point of bringing a small child on a sun holiday or even foreign holidays in general. They won't appreciate or remember it at all. I know the parents might like a bit of sun but I've seen people overseas with small kids on holidays and it looks more like work than a holiday- besides how dangerous the sun is for their delicate skin. Obviously sometimes travel due to emigration etc can't be avoided.

Why do you think looking after a child in Wexford is easier than looking after a child in Portugal, Spain, or Croatia where food, drink and baby sitters are much cheaper? As i said in my post above, if you think looking after a small child beside a pool with waiters bringing you drinks is hard work, try doing it in Kerry when its raining in June. I'm not being negative towards Ireland, I love this little country, I'm being realistic.

I remember going on sun holidays with my parents. Lets see, my sister wasn't there, so I was 2 at the oldest, and all I needed was a spade and bucket, and the day stretched out in front of me, with wondrous possibility. Now to enjoy the beach I need a Martini in my hand and be surrounded by girls.

keithclancy

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

And im saying based on my circle of friends and people I've met on holiday...bringing babies on flights is the done thing on the continent.
You never asked was it fair on the young baby when they have no choice. You're thread title asked should babies be allowed on flights and your opening post referred to how you think things are done on the continent and whether, for a a variety of reasons a baby should be allowed on a flight. You never asked if it was fair on the child though.

No my thread title said:

Do you think its fair parents bring young babies on flights for a holiday ?

I don't think what you experience on Holidays is valid, if anything your looking at a Microcosm of the people that have done something a certain way rather than a wider majority of people that are from someplace that do something a certain way.

Similarly I wouldn't base my opinion of Dutch people off of Dutch people I have met while on Holidays.

The Germans, people seem to think that they reserve Sun Loungers from 6am with towels.

That's not my experience and I've lived here for 6 years and traveled to quite a few countries by Car/Flights (Including Ireland by ferry)

Whether its right or wrong doesn't really matter to me, I just don't see the point and neither do most German/Dutch friends I know.

Another friend is heading off next month to Eastern Germany with his wife and three kids.

Another German guy I know from Bavaria that lives in Duesseldorf is heading to Ireland on his third trip with the P&O Landbridge to Ireland, spending three weeks down around the south in Kerry/West Cork with his Wife and 2 kids.

What bothers me more, are the people who scowl and moan at the parents as if the parents deliberately set the kids off crying.

I always found that the situation is made worse by grumpy feckers pissing and moaning about a child crying. Lets face it, they do stop ( after a while :pac:)

It usually just ends up flustering the poor parents more, and in turn making the childs behaviour worse.

bumper234

Jake1 wrote: »

What bothers me more, are the people who scowl and moan at the parents as if the parents deliberately set the kids off crying.

I always found that the situation is made worse by grumpy feckers pissing and moaning about a child crying. Lets face it, they do stop ( after a while :pac:)

It usually just ends up flustering the poor parents more, and in turn making the childs behaviour worse.

I find the words **** Off works.:D

keithclancy

jmayo wrote: »

That is fooking water mate and unless you have a special campervan you would get very wet driving it from Dublin to Nice.
Of course you could take a ferry which only adds €1600 odd to your trip cost.

1600 quid ? for my Colleagues that drive to Ireland they only pay around 400-600 euro with the Landbridge or Celtic link from Cherbourg/Irish Ferries from Cherbourg/Roscoff.

You can even bring your Dog if you like these days without hassle.

BizzyC

I have no problem when the child making noise is very small.
They're too small to be spoken to about the noise and in most cases the parent will be doing everything they can to make the child more comfortable.

I only have a problem when a toddler or older is making a tonne of noise and the parent decides to ignore it.

bumper234

BizzyC wrote: »

I have no problem when the child making noise is very small.
They're too small to be spoken to about the noise and in most cases the parent will be doing everything they can to make the child more comfortable.

I only have a problem when a toddler or older is making a tonne of noise and the parent decides to ignore it.

I have NEVER had any issues with children on planes (this includes a lot of long haul flights around Europe, Canada and the US) I have had plenty of reason to complain about loud, drunken obnoxious adults.

Meangadh

syklops wrote: »

Why do you think looking after a child in Wexford is easier than looking after a child in Portugal, Spain, or Croatia where food, drink and baby sitters are much cheaper? As i said in my post above, if you think looking after a small child beside a pool with waiters bringing you drinks is hard work, try doing it in Kerry when its raining in June. I'm not being negative towards Ireland, I love this little country, I'm being realistic.

I remember going on sun holidays with my parents. Lets see, my sister wasn't there, so I was 2 at the oldest, and all I needed was a spade and bucket, and the day stretched out in front of me, with wondrous possibility. Now to enjoy the beach I need a Martini in my hand and be surrounded by girls.

I suppose for me it's more the issue of the heat and the fact that I would definitely have a bias towards holidaying in Ireland. I suppose I just have such positive memories of holidays in Ireland as a child that I'd love my children to have that too. I'm sure others have similar memories of foreign holidays though- I don't have a problem at all if others would rather go abroad, I didn't mean it to come across that way. It's just personally I'd rather holiday more often in Ireland with kids, with the sun holidays being something I'd do with them when they're a little older.

lazygal

Meangadh wrote: »

I suppose for me it's more the issue of the heat and the fact that I would definitely have a bias towards holidaying in Ireland. I suppose I just have such positive memories of holidays in Ireland as a child that I'd love my children to have that too. I'm sure others have similar memories of foreign holidays though- I don't have a problem at all if others would rather go abroad, I didn't mean it to come across that way. It's just personally I'd rather holiday more often in Ireland with kids, with the sun holidays being something I'd do with them when they're a little older.

God I've memories of crap holidays in Ireland. The stand out childhood holidays for me are the ones we spent in France, great weather and loads of fun. I won't take the chance on the Irish weather, we prefer to pack up and head away to where we know we can spend time outdoors without needing a batch of raingear and indoor plans.

syklops

keithclancy wrote: »

I don't think what you experience on Holidays is valid, if anything your looking at a Microcosm of the people that have done something a certain way rather than a wider majority of people that are from someplace that do something a certain way.

I've got news for you. Ireland is a microcosm. We are 4 million people on a small Island on the wesht of europe.

keithclancy wrote: »

Whether its right or wrong doesn't really matter to me, I just don't see the point and neither do most German/Dutch friends I know.

Well of course your German/Dutch friends don't see the point in flying with a small child, because they have good weather and cheap beer in Germany/Holland. They can go to a random town, rent a chalet, and have a ball. Try doing the same in Ireland and there is a decent chance you will be stuck inside playing the worlds longest game of monopoly.

Another friend is heading off next month to Eastern Germany with his wife and three kids.

Is that the East Germany that gets good weather and has the cheap beer?

keithclancy wrote: »

Another German guy I know from Bavaria that lives in Duesseldorf is heading to Ireland on his third trip with the P&O Landbridge to Ireland, spending three weeks down around the south in Kerry/West Cork with his Wife and 2 kids.

Bavaria: Good weather all summer. He doesn't mind if it pours for his 2 weeks in west cork, because he gets guaranteed nice weather at home all summer long, he is going to cork for the culture, and the seeing new places. For a few scoops and plenty of the incorrectly spelt craic. If it rains, he puts on his raincoat which he brought with him just in case because he is German, and gets on with it and has a good time.

shamrock55

I honestly cant see a problem with it we took our little girl to new zealand with us and she had her first birthday there and back obviously no problems

keithclancy

syklops wrote: »

Well of course your German/Dutch friends don't see the point in flying with a small child, because they have good weather and cheap beer in Germany/Holland. They can go to a random town, rent a chalet, and have a ball. Try doing the same in Ireland and there is a decent chance you will be stuck inside playing the worlds longest game of monopoly.

The Weather in the Netherlands/North West Germany is not much better than Ireland.

Summer is maybe a little bit hotter, Winter is definitely colder.

But the frequency of rain is pretty much the same.

For camping trips myself there are some great spots down around West cork (Bantry/Balleylickey)

Its not raining all the time in Ireland

Bavaria: Good weather all summer. He doesn't mind if it pours for his 2 weeks in west cork, because he gets guaranteed nice weather at home all summer long, he is going to cork for the culture, and the seeing new places. For a few scoops and plenty of the incorrectly spelt craic. If it rains, he puts on his raincoat which he brought with him just in case because he is German, and gets on with it and has a good time.

He lives in Duesseldorf, which is in Nordrhein-Westfalen, 'home' is an 8 hour drive in his Campervan.

Frank Black

The Backwards Man wrote: »

There are many circumstances where it is necessary for people to fly with young children in my opinion, going on holiday isn't one of them. I'd include children up to at least seven years of age in that.

Apt username.

syklops

Meangadh wrote: »

I suppose for me it's more the issue of the heat and the fact that I would definitely have a bias towards holidaying in Ireland. I suppose I just have such positive memories of holidays in Ireland as a child that I'd love my children to have that too. I'm sure others have similar memories of foreign holidays though- I don't have a problem at all if others would rather go abroad, I didn't mean it to come across that way. It's just personally I'd rather holiday more often in Ireland with kids, with the sun holidays being something I'd do with them when they're a little older.

I can understand Keiths point in some ways. I was abroad for 4 years and had rose tinted memories of trips back home. I was living slightly south of where keith is, and summer started around May, and slowly transitioned into Autumn around mid september, and it was scorching for those months in between. The only time it rained was for a rainstorm, and there would be heavy rain and thunder and lightening for an hour, and if you were out and about during it you went to the nearest pub and had a few scoops, and when it stopped, it stopped and you went on your way and the streets were dry in 30 minutes and you were back to blue skies. So I can understand him wondering why don't we holiday in Ireland, but once you're home again for a while the reality kicks in. I've had weekends in cork where it started raining during the drive down in Mallow on the Friday evening, and it stopped raining during the drive home in Mallow on the Sunday evening and we spent the weekend in the pub at 4 euros a pint, and on the drive home we calculated that if we had flown to Dusseldorf instead, the journey time would have been the same, price of pints would have been half, price of smokes would have been a third, and we would have been guaranteed sun.

keithclancy

syklops wrote: »

I've got news for you. Ireland is a microcosm. We are 4 million people on a small Island on the wesht of europe.

BTW I think you'll find unless they floated a bit off the Population of the Island is almost 6.4 million.

The Backwards Man

Frank Black wrote: »

Apt username.

Na, I just have no problem telling people what they don't want to hear. There is no rational reason under the sun to take a very young child on a needlessly long journey for a holiday. That's my opinion.

bumper234

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Na, I just have no problem telling people what they don't want to hear. There is no rational reason under the sun to take a very young child on a needlessly long journey for a holiday. That's my opinion.

What you deem to be needless is important to others.

wexie

keithclancy wrote: »

BTW I think you'll find unless they floated a bit off the Population of the Island is almost 6.4 million.

Must have floated off a lot, was about 4.5 million according to the 2011 Census...

Ihatecuddles-old

Brought my son on an 8 hour flight when he was 4 months old. I don't see anything wrong with it to be honest. If he was a difficult baby (can't think of a better way of phrasing that) then I wouldn't have.

keithclancy

wexie wrote: »

Must have floated off a lot, was about 4.5 million according to the 2011 Census...

4.5 Million in the Republic and 1.8 Million in the North.

If you get out the calculator and add those together you'll get the result for the Island.

Frank Black

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Na, I just have no problem telling people what they don't want to hear. There is no rational reason under the sun to take a very young child on a needlessly long journey for a holiday. That's my opinion.

I know, and it's backwards - hence the aptness of your username.

syklops

keithclancy wrote: »

BTW I think you'll find unless they floated a bit off the Population of the Island is almost 6.4 million.

The population was speculated to be about 6.4 million, then the recession hit and the Poles and Latvians went home. The Census in 2011 found there were 4,588,25 living in Ireland. Not counting the ones on holiday.

The Weather in the Netherlands/North West Germany is not much better than Ireland.

Summer is maybe a little bit hotter, Winter is definitely colder.

But the frequency of rain is pretty much the same.

Its not just about the weather. A pint in North West Germany is about 2 to 2.50 euro. A pint in killarney is about 4-5 euros. A packet of smokes in West Germany is about 5 euros, its 9.45 in Ireland. A week in Germany can be done for about 120 euro. You'd barely get a night out in killarney for that.

syklops

keithclancy wrote: »

4.5 Million in the Republic and 1.8 Million in the North.

Very few people in the Republic count the people in the north when they use the term Irish People.

keithclancy wrote: »

If you get out the calculator and add those together you'll get the result for the Island.

There's no need to be like that. You asked the question on After Hours. If you don't like the responses you are getting ask a mod to close the thread.

freedominacup

seamus wrote: »

Sun holidays with a baby (i.e. under 2) - what's the point? You can't go out and sit on the beach all day with the child, you can't go out for dinner and get half sloshed, and they'll be uncomfortable as hell in the heat and won't sleep.

By inference then once they're over two it's party time so?

You're free to go on the tear with kids in tow down whatever fifth circle of hell that serves as the place to be in whatever resort you happen to be staying in. And then spend the following day sleeping it off on the beach while the kids try not to drown?

A family holiday is not a singles holiday with kids thrown in.

The Mulk

syklops wrote: »

I can understand Keiths point in some ways. I was abroad for 4 years and had rose tinted memories of trips back home. I was living slightly south of where keith is, and summer started around May, and slowly transitioned into Autumn around mid september, and it was scorching for those months in between. The only time it rained was for a rainstorm, and there would be heavy rain and thunder and lightening for an hour, and if you were out and about during it you went to the nearest pub and had a few scoops, and when it stopped, it stopped and you went on your way and the streets were dry in 30 minutes and you were back to blue skies. So I can understand him wondering why don't we holiday in Ireland, but once you're home again for a while the reality kicks in. I've had weekends in cork where it started raining during the drive down in Mallow on the Friday evening, and it stopped raining during the drive home in Mallow on the Sunday evening and we spent the weekend in the pub at 4 euros a pint, and on the drive home we calculated that if we had flown to Dusseldorf instead, the journey time would have been the same, price of pints would have been half, price of smokes would have been a third, and we would have been guaranteed sun.

Agree totally, we holidayed in Clonakilty when our youngest was 7 months, oldest was 2 1/2. A week in a hotel in August. It rained for 5 days, windy for the other 2, food and drink were crazy money. It didn't even feel like a holiday.
That was 3 years ago this year and we've gone abroad every year since.
Max. 3 hour flight though and the kids are grand.
Even the photos of that holiday look miserable.

As a kid I always holidayed in Ireland but didn't know any better, one year we went abroad(Wales), on the boat,I think I was about 13 and had a great time. Made me realise the that I was getting a raw deal 'Holidaying' in Ireland

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

They shouldn't be banned from flying but there should be a section for families with small kids so they can all roar and cry away from the rest of the people.

The Backwards Man

bumper234 wrote: »

What you deem to be needless is important to others.

Travelling is important and should be done at every possible opportunity, in my opinion.

Dragging a baby completely unaware of their surroundings along with you is needless. Wait until they are old enough to appreciate it, leave them at home, or don't go. Perfectly practical outlook on life if I say so myself.

keithclancy

syklops wrote: »

The population was speculated to be about 6.4 million, then the recession hit and the Poles and Latvians went home. The Census in 2011 found there were 4,588,25 living in Ireland. Not counting the ones on holiday.

He mentioned the Island not the Republic.

Its not just about the weather. A pint in North West Germany is about 2 to 2.50 euro. A pint in killarney is about 4-5 euros. A packet of smokes in West Germany is about 5 euros, its 9.45 in Ireland. A week in Germany can be done for about 120 euro. You'd barely get a night out in killarney for that.

A packet of smokes in the Netherlands is 6 euros.

They also managed to enforce the smoking ban in May (Thank god) in NRW.

A 500ml glass of something in Dusseldorf will set you back around 3.80 in a Local old man bar and between 4-5 euro in a Modern bar.

IMO there's great value to be had in Ireland at the moment, booze in Supermarkets is much cheaper for a better selection of stuff compared to the Netherlands anyway, its only cheaper if your drinking Amstel/Heineken/Bavaria/Dommelsch.

Lots of restaurants have deals on if you check around the place.

In Germany, German beer is way cheaper in the Supermarkets for sure.

Cost of accommodation varies wildly depending on if an event is on or not, if you hit anywhere around Dusseldorf/Cologne at the wrong time crappy hotel rooms can start at 500 euros and something that is along the lines of the Clarion is around 1100 euros for the night.

But the big cost is the price of owning a car, in the Netherlands is frikkin nuts, Motor tax on a Diesel is over twice what it is in Ireland, if you get a Petrol your paying 1.78 a liter.

Car parts cost a fortune in Germany/The Netherlands for some unknown reason, I get all my bits from the UK.

syklops wrote: »

Very few people in the Republic count the people in the north when they use the term Irish People.



There's no need to be like that. You asked the question on After Hours. If you don't like the responses you are getting ask a mod to close the thread.

Sorry man, didn't mean to come across the wrong way, he and I did say Island, which is not really anything to do with being Irish. Same as in the UK, they wouldn't say population of England = the UK

jmayo

keithclancy wrote: »

Whether its right or wrong doesn't really matter to me, I just don't see the point and neither do most German/Dutch friends I know.

Another friend is heading off next month to Eastern Germany with his wife and three kids.

Another German guy I know from Bavaria that lives in Duesseldorf is heading to Ireland on his third trip with the P&O Landbridge to Ireland, spending three weeks down around the south in Kerry/West Cork with his Wife and 2 kids.

Weather in continental Europe is better than Ireland, or UK.
Yes that guy may bring his kids to Ireland for two weeks and so what if the weather is shi**y, because for the rest of their summer back home they will have good half decent weather.
Whereas the kids here normally do not have that.
This is the first decent summer in years.

keithclancy wrote: »

1600 quid ? for my Colleagues that drive to Ireland they only pay around 400-600 euro with the Landbridge or Celtic link from Cherbourg/Irish Ferries from Cherbourg/Roscoff.

You can even bring your Dog if you like these days without hassle.

Yeah right.
On Irish ferries I have been quoted in July 1600 return for car, 5 passengers and two 4 berth cabins.
Trust me you need a cabin if you have younger kids as you can't sleep in a chair with them.
Even with Celtic the cost was about 1000.

Now I have travelled with Irish ferries in May/Spet and the cost is down around 700/800, but sadly due to school/work I have needed to do it in July/August.

I could of course have done it much cheaper by travelling through Uk, but that involves a late evening ferry (not good idea with young kids as they need sleep or get hyper) and 5/6 hour drive across UK.

There is huge difference between travelling with young kids and older kids nevermind adults.
Young kids do keep asking "are we there yet ?" even if you hav eonly left the house and the drive/ferry is two days long and 700 miles.
I have driven for 12-14 hours straight, but with young kids that is a no no.

Wabbit Ears

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Travelling is important and should be done at every possible opportunity, in my opinion.

Dragging a baby completely unaware of their surroundings along with you is needless. Wait until they are old enough to appreciate it, leave them at home, or don't go. Perfectly practical outlook on life if I say so myself.

This is one of those situations where you know full well how absolutely wrong your point of view is but you'll hold onto it regardless in the face of all reasonable discussion to the contrary.

The Backwards Man

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

This is one of those situations where you know full well how absolutely wrong your point of view is but you'll hold onto it regardless in the face of all reasonable discussion to the contrary.

If it's wrong, tell me how it's wrong and I'll gladly change the error of my ways.

Frank Black

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Travelling is important and should be done at every possible opportunity, in my opinion.

Dragging a baby completely unaware of their surroundings along with you is needless. Wait until they are old enough to appreciate it, leave them at home, or don't go. Perfectly practical outlook on life if I say so myself.

Sounds like someone's hungry.

wexie

keithclancy wrote: »

Sorry man, didn't mean to come across the wrong way, he and I did say Island, which is not really anything to do with being Irish. Same as in the UK, they wouldn't say population of England = the UK

Nope that was just me misreading Island for Ireland.

keithclancy

jmayo wrote: »

Yeah right.
On Irish ferries I have been quoted in July 1600 return for car, 5 passengers and two 4 berth cabins.
Trust me you need a cabin if you have younger kids as you can't sleep in a chair with them.
Even with Celtic the cost was about 1000.

DFDS - With Camper
Calais to Dover, Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 01:00
2 adults & 2 children
Dover to Calais, Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 00:30
2 adults & 2 children
Calais to Dover
Economy £29.00
Dover to Calais
Economy £29.00
Total calculated price £58.00

Pembroke - Rosslare
Departs: Sat 27-Jul-13, 14:45
Crossing Time: 4 Hrs 1 Mins
Arrives: Sat 27-Jul-13, 18:46
Vessel: Isle of Inishmore

2 x Adult
2x Infant
1 x Camper/Motorhome (up to 2.25m high )
£ 213.00 Sailing Price

£ 213.00 Outward Price


Rosslare - Pembroke
Departs: Thu 08-Aug-13, 08:45
Crossing Time: 4 Hrs 1 Mins
Arrives: Thu 08-Aug-13, 12:46
Vessel: Isle of Inishmore

2 x Adult
2 x Infant
1 x Camper/Motorhome (up to 2.25m high )
£ 187.00 Sailing Price

Total
£ 469.00


Combined:
527 pounds = 610 euros.


Although I believe he breaks it up with a Campsite in Wales on the way.

Although sometimes he finds it cheaper going from France if there's a deal on or an ADAC Discount.

syklops

keithclancy wrote: »

He mentioned the Island not the Republic.

Fair enough.

IMO there's great value to be had in Ireland at the moment, booze in Supermarkets is much cheaper for a better selection of stuff compared to the Netherlands anyway, its only cheaper if your drinking Amstel/Heineken/Bavaria/Dommelsch.

Its only cheaper if you are drinking non-imported beer? In ireland we have the situation that most imported beer, is cheaper than our native brands. Bavaria is one of the cheapest.
There is very little value to be had in Ireland full stop. 20% off very expensive, may feel like good value, but it remains expensive.

To be honest, I think you need to pick a country. Comparing Ireland to the best bits of Germany AND the best bits of the Netherlands is just silly.

Lots of restaurants have deals on if you check around the place.

In Germany, German beer is way cheaper in the Supermarkets for sure.

Restaurants can have deals on, but if you dont get change out of a fifty, when you will get change out of a twenty in Spain, people will be inclined to go abroad.

anncoates

On of the only things that mitigates the sound of a crying baby on a long-haul flight is the pleasurable knowledge that some moaning cunt is losing the plot about it somewhere else on the plane.

canyoudigit

I usually just feed mine some weed b4 a long flight, conks the baby right out

jmayo

keithclancy wrote: »

The Weather in the Netherlands/North West Germany is not much better than Ireland.

Summer is maybe a little bit hotter, Winter is definitely colder.

But the frequency of rain is pretty much the same.

I think most of us are talking about summer holidays and I think you are being disenengous claiming the weather is not much better than here.
Are you telling me it drizzels in Germany for a whole day followed by another day and another ?

keithclancy wrote: »

For camping trips myself there are some great spots down around West cork (Bantry/Balleylickey)

Its not raining all the time in Ireland

But it does fecking rain a lot and our weather is pretty unpredicable and that is not what you want in a holiday.
Especially a holdiay with small kids.
What the fook are you going to do with a 2 or 3 year old in a tent when it is raining ?

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Na, I just have no problem telling people what they don't want to hear. There is no rational reason under the sun to take a very young child on a needlessly long journey for a holiday. That's my opinion.

See the word in bold.
That is a rational reason.

May I ask if you went on a foreign holiday last year or the year before ?

LexieOnRale wrote: »

They shouldn't be banned from flying but there should be a section for families with small kids so they can all roar and cry away from the rest of the people.

And lets have a section for the drunks who think singing they are on the way to Santa Ponsa or whatever resort they are going to (had to suffer such on a flight to Majorca years ago) is a good idea.
And lets have a section for the stag and hen parties.
And lets have a section for the fookers who think their seats should roll back more and shove your knees up into your hips.
And lets have a section for the fookers who fart because the pints and grub they have had before boarding is now making it's way through their guts.
And lets have section for the ones with BO.

And lets have a section for you.
Although can't decide if the jacks or tied to the tailplane would be better.

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Travelling is important and should be done at every possible opportunity, in my opinion.

Dragging a baby completely unaware of their surroundings along with you is needless. Wait until they are old enough to appreciate it, leave them at home, or don't go. Perfectly practical outlook on life if I say so myself.

Yeah shure why would families want to experience a break together somewhere decent.
Let them wait until all the kids are grown up, when the oldest ones are in college, the middle ones don't want to be seen with their parents and the youngest ones can't stand their older siblings.

Parents just postpone your life until they have actually left school and are old enough to drive themselves so that our practical friend here is not inconvenienced.

keithclancy

jmayo wrote: »

I think most of us are talking about summer holidays and I think you are being disenengous claiming the weather is not much better than here.
Are you telling me it drizzels in Germany for a whole day followed by another day and another ?

I used to live in the Hague and it rained every second/third day outside the peak summer months/winter.

Slightly less rainfall in Brabant I think since its further inland.

Actually my first few months living there I was a bit surprised that the weather was so crappy.

Also during the hot weather in the Netherlands you'll get hot weather followed by a massive thunder/lightening storm.

The coldest winter was 3 years ago, getting the train home through Duisberg and it was -20 degrees.

This summer has been crap so far, for decent run of sun we've had is for the last week.

http://www.worldweatheronline.com/The-Hague-weather-averages/Zuid-Holland/NL.aspx

http://www.worldweatheronline.com/Cork-weather-averages/Cork/IE.aspx

Average rainfall days is around the same.

anncoates

I'm a parent but I flew plenty of times before I was: It's a pain in the hole to end up beside any crying baby and it's equally a pain in the hole to have to deal with your own crying baby knowing other people are being disturbed.

Shit happens.

Society isn't arranged expressly for your benefit and kids are an important part of society whether or not you have or - more power to you - don't want any yourself.

The day airlines ban parents traveling with babies, that will be a sign that they want your business more than parents so until then they have as much right to go a holiday as you do.

jmayo

keithclancy wrote: »

DFDS - With Camper
Calais to Dover, Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 01:00
2 adults & 2 children
Dover to Calais, Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 00:30
2 adults & 2 children
Calais to Dover
Economy £29.00
Dover to Calais
Economy £29.00
Total calculated price £58.00

Pembroke - Rosslare
Departs: Sat 27-Jul-13, 14:45
Crossing Time: 4 Hrs 1 Mins
Arrives: Sat 27-Jul-13, 18:46
Vessel: Isle of Inishmore

2 x Adult
2x Infant
1 x Camper/Motorhome (up to 2.25m high )
£ 213.00 Sailing Price

£ 213.00 Outward Price


Rosslare - Pembroke
Departs: Thu 08-Aug-13, 08:45
Crossing Time: 4 Hrs 1 Mins
Arrives: Thu 08-Aug-13, 12:46
Vessel: Isle of Inishmore

2 x Adult
2 x Infant
1 x Camper/Motorhome (up to 2.25m high )
£ 187.00 Sailing Price

Total
£ 469.00


Combined:
527 pounds = 610 euros.


Although I believe he breaks it up with a Campsite in Wales on the way.

Although sometimes he finds it cheaper going from France if there's a deal on or an ADAC Discount.

Did you just fail to read the rest of my post or are you acting the pratt ?

I did mention it being cheaper to go through UK, but it also means a 5/6 hour drive from Swansea/Pembroke down to Portsmouth/Southampton.
Going to Dover and then Calais just adds miles if you are going to South of France or Western French coast.

BTW will you ever look up a fooking map.
It gives you an idea what we are talking about.

And I mentioned the problem with ferry times as well.

And look at the ferry times above.
One of those ferries is at midnight and another at 1 in the morning.

That doesn't even work with a campervan as nowadays, since Zeebrugge Herlad of Free Enterprise, you can't stay with vehicle.
So at midnight you have to get your kids out of car and up into ferry proper.
And on short route ferries you are not going to have a cabin.
Wayhay lets try and get the kids to sleep in the wide open space of a ferry corridor.
I can see that being a whole lotta fun.
And even if you get them to sleep you have to wake them to go back down to the car in a couple of hours.
What do you do with kids you are very tired and you are putting them back into a car at 3 or 4 in the morning ?

You haven't a fooking clue what you are talking about and it is patently obvious you haven't kids.

I can get from Galway to Barca in a couple of days on the road but that would only be without kids.
I have driven 900 km straight in Canada (no motorway at all) and about the same in Oz arriving late in the night, but would I do it with young kids.
No way.
Adding kids into the mix changes the whole game.

syklops

keithclancy wrote: »

I used to live in the Hague and it rained every second/third day outside the peak summer months/winter.
.

This is where your whole argument falls down. We are having a fantastic summer in Ireland this year. We have had years where it rained everyday during the peak summer months.

Thats the issue right there. The weather here is unpredictable. On most parts of the continent they get proper seasons, cold winters, hot summers. In Ireland it can be both in the same day.

/thread.

Im stepping out of this thread. Its verging on ridiculous.

Final words, Ireland is an Island. To leave it, you need to either fly, or sail or swim. Flying is the quickest and cheapest. Is it fair to bring young babies on a plane? Fair to whom? A recurring comment on here was young babies won't remember a sun holiday. Well if they won't remember it, they certainly won't remember the 2 hours on a plane or Aer Lingus's plastic chicken.

In the Ireland is better for holidaying than Germany is, where seemingly all Germans holiday in Germany, why dont Irish people holiday in Ireland, Ireland is expensive. It is very hard to deny that. Germany is cheaper, it is also hard to deny that. That is part of it. You can fly to Germany for cheaper than you can get the train to Cork, that is also part of it.

keithclancy

jmayo wrote: »

You haven't a fooking clue what you are talking about and it is patently obvious you haven't kids.
]

Wow .. no ones ever heard someone say this before :pac::pac::pac: