J4/J5 [Social Rugby] Season 2013/14

Teferi

hungry hippo 4 wrote: »

is there an age limit

Nope, once you're over 18 you're fine. I've seen and played against lads in their late 50's although I know a few teams take part in an over 35 league if that is more your pace.

hungry hippo 4 wrote: »

also can you be a bit **** to play j4?

Yep, what we lack in skill we make up for in passion and enthusiasm. If you haven't played in a few years or you have never played before consider joining a j5 team which is more of a development league.

GavMan

Eoin wrote: »

Yep, you summed them up perfectly; a much improved back line from the last 2 seasons. Solid back as to be expected; lots of runners around the fringes and off 10.

Cool. Are DLSP still a hardy bunch too. Sounded like a close one you guys had there

Eoin

GavMan wrote: »

Cool. Are DLSP still a hardy bunch too. Sounded like a close one you guys had there

Yeah, big pack with strong runners, and some quick guys in the backs. You'd want to be awake around the 10/12 channel.

stephen_n

bigred100 wrote: »

Tbf we were a J4 team from the old league setup.

We being?

bigred100

stephen_n wrote: »

We being?

CYM, should have made that clearer.

stephen_n

bigred100 wrote: »

CYM, should have made that clearer.

Yeah but I was saying that you didn't really load your team, your number 8 I'd say played higher but compared to Bective and Monkstown who played 3 players that had played AIL last year and one of their first team players respectively, you were very much a j4 team. We beat Clontarf the week before we played you, who had in turn hammered you, so you see where the question arises, but I honestly didn't feel you were dishonest as a team at this level. You were well drilled and played to your strengths on a narrow pitch, we collectively and individually failed to perform, that's rugby at this level. I don't remember the last time I played as badly as I did last weekend, playing three positions and being awful at all of them.

.ak

stephen_n wrote: »

Yeah but I was saying that you didn't really load your team, your number 8 I'd say played higher but compared to Bective and Monkstown who played 3 players that had played AIL last year and one of their first team players respectively, you were very much a j4 team. We beat Clontarf the week before we played you, who had in turn hammered you, so you see where the question arises, but I honestly didn't feel you were dishonest as a team at this level. You were well drilled and played to your strengths on a narrow pitch, we collectively and individually failed to perform, that's rugby at this level. I don't remember the last time I played as badly as I did last weekend, playing three positions and being awful at all of them.

To be fair when we (Clontarf) beat them we just had a really good day, and I think CYM had a bit of an off day. Also, we nullified their attack fairly quick once we figured it out but in the first 20 it looked like it was CYM's day.

Worth noting a few of our good forwards picked up injuries in that game and we struggled in the couple of games after that. I suppose that's the key point - at this level the little things make a big difference.

stephen_n

.ak wrote: »

To be fair when we (Clontarf) beat them we just had a really good day, and I think CYM had a bit of an off day. Also, we nullified their attack fairly quick once we figured it out but in the first 20 it looked like it was CYM's day.

Worth noting a few of our good forwards picked up injuries in that game and we struggled in the couple of games after that. I suppose that's the key point - at this level the little things make a big difference.

For the most part junior rugby is like that, consistency is a rarity.

Pudsy33

That's the fun of it My tallaght team are sitting 2nd in division 7, a couple of points off belvadere. Belvo hammered us in our match a few weeks back, but just this weekend we beat AIB, who beat belvo earlier in the year. Its looking like an exciting 3 horse race for the 2 playoff spots.

Anyone else playing division 7?

cloneslad

stephen_n wrote: »

Yeah but I was saying that you didn't really load your team, your number 8 I'd say played higher but compared to Bective and Monkstown who played 3 players that had played AIL last year and one of their first team players respectively, you were very much a j4 team. We beat Clontarf the week before we played you, who had in turn hammered you, so you see where the question arises, but I honestly didn't feel you were dishonest as a team at this level. You were well drilled and played to your strengths on a narrow pitch, we collectively and individually failed to perform, that's rugby at this level. I don't remember the last time I played as badly as I did last weekend, playing three positions and being awful at all of them.

We (Clontarf) also played terribly against you guys and the two tries involved shocking missed tackles by a number of players. We were without 3-4 forwards against you too, and your out half played really well to keep putting us back into our own 22 whenever we had the ball turned over in attack.

The CYM game was our first game of the season, from what I remember and we were getting destroyed for the first 20 mins. We managed to turn it around and get our game flowing in the 2nd half.

.ak

Have a game against Mary's this saturday - best way of getting there from town? The 15 Bus goes by there doesn't it?

dave13

15 goes kinda close, 54A from Trinity stops outside the club.

Winters

Halfway though the season and commencing the reverse fixtures now. Anyone here Metro 9? We (Malahide) are 6 from 6 after running Milmount close last season. We have Gorey at home this Saturday.

dregin

Is Matty Forde not with Gorey this season? His kicking was their main strength in seasons passed.

LeinsterDub

dregin wrote: »

Is Matty Forde not with Gorey this season? His kicking was their main strength in seasons passed.

No Matty Forde this season , could actually get hands on the ball when we played then this year instead of it been kicked from one 22 to the other . Frustrating games they were

LeinsterDub

Christmas break already. Hard to believe. In saying that I've a few knocks that will enjoy the rest.

.ak

Ah I was looking forward to one more game before the break but CYM conceded the game.

Teferi

.ak wrote: »

Ah I was looking forward to one more game before the break but CYM conceded the game.

Your fourths obviously called in a favour from CYM in order to strengthen themselves for our top of the table clash! :P

.ak

Teferi wrote: »

Your fourths obviously called in a favour from CYM in order to strengthen themselves for our top of the table clash! :P

Ha I doubt any of us would help - they're a good step up from us and pretty well stocked. I'll still be there to heckle you from the sidelines though!

Losty Dublin

.ak wrote: »

Ah I was looking forward to one more game before the break but CYM conceded the game.

We didn't concede.

We declined :pac:

.ak

Losty Dublin wrote: »

We didn't concede.

We declined :pac:

Of course, my bad.

Eoin

With Blackrock losing 2 matches in a row, Div 8 has really opened up.

Seapoint beat Terenure 26-17. Am quite surprised they haven't picked up a win yet; some handy players.

stephen_n

One last game before xmas, be interesting to see how strong this railway team are.

gaius c

.ak wrote: »

Ah I was looking forward to one more game before the break but CYM conceded the game.

Div 10?
They've withdrawn from the league now.

chris85

gaius c wrote: »

Div 10?
They've withdrawn from the league now.

Thats a real pain half way through a season. Does anyone know if teams withdrawing from a league are penalised in any way by means of points deducted next year, relegation to different division? Just wondering!

.ak

gaius c wrote: »

Div 10?
They've withdrawn from the league now.

chris85 wrote: »

Thats a real pain half way through a season. Does anyone know if teams withdrawing from a league are penalised in any way by means of points deducted next year, relegation to different division? Just wondering!

Ah that's a pity, they had some decent players. Makes the league a bit shorter now I presume?

gaius c

chris85 wrote: »

Thats a real pain half way through a season. Does anyone know if teams withdrawing from a league are penalised in any way by means of points deducted next year, relegation to different division? Just wondering!

Don't see why they should be. A lot of teams are struggling for players and withdrawing from the league is a lot better than "played 2 conceded 12" or bringing in ringers just to avoid the walkover.

Eoin

I think the only problem is if it affects the league table somehow - that's not an issue if they've lost all their games though.

stephen_n

They hammered us, pity that they couldn't continue, hate seeing clubs struggle to field teams.

Can't wait to get back this weekend, Away to Bective, which ironically is the closest I get to a home game, travel wise. Hope they don't field the ringers they did the last time we played them.

gaius c

Eoin wrote: »

I think the only problem is if it affects the league table somehow - that's not an issue if they've lost all their games though.

Well it's fairer that none of their results are standing because some of their players were definitely not J5 players.

Eoin

But you could find that one team has lost 1/won 1 against the team that's withdrawn, while another team has lost 2, so if they're removed from the league, then one team loses 4 league points and the other team doesn't lose any. That kind of thing (not to mention points difference etc) could mess up a tight league, when it's more than halfway through.

gaius c

Hasn't messed this one up as they were rooted firmly to the bottom of the table.

I've much more of an issue with teams like Lansdowne in Div 6 putting out their "all stars" in the first game because they were technically eligible for that game and needed a "warmup" before they played at J3 & up and then throwing the league for all remaining fixtures while continuing to actually play the fixtures.
And yes, I do know that they started the league on minus points because of last year's shenanigans.

chris85

gaius c wrote: »

Don't see why they should be. A lot of teams are struggling for players and withdrawing from the league is a lot better than "played 2 conceded 12" or bringing in ringers just to avoid the walkover.

Early in the season I can understand a team coming forward and withdrawing as they dont have numbers but half way through a league is annoying though and should have withdrawn earlier when they knew the team werent getting the numbers they want. I hate to see teams struggling for numbers but club must make call early if they arent getting players down to withdraw a team I feel.

Eoin

Blackrock's J4/Div 8 team have had points deducted twice now, because they haven't been able to field a team at a higher level. Bit crap for the team as they've fulfilled all their fixtures, but I suppose it's to stop clubs from stacking the lower teams first.

stephen_n

Sure Monkstown have only fulfilled half their fixtures so far and played one of the first team against us in one the fixtures they did fulfill, it's junior rugby fair doesn't really come into it.

gaius c

Eoin wrote: »

Blackrock's J4/Div 8 team have had points deducted twice now, because they haven't been able to field a team at a higher level. Bit crap for the team as they've fulfilled all their fixtures, but I suppose it's to stop clubs from stacking the lower teams first.

Blackrock's troubles probably deserves a thread of it's own tbf.

gaius c

stephen_n wrote: »

Sure Monkstown have only fulfilled half their fixtures so far and played one of the first team against us in one the fixtures they did fulfill, it's junior rugby fair doesn't really come into it.

Why didn't you raise a complaint?

chris85

gaius c wrote: »

Blackrock's troubles probably deserves a thread of it's own tbf.

True, last few years seem to be a big struggle for numbers. Seem to be stuggling a bit with debt. However they are making inroads as read recently they have done a deal with a local GAA club for land.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/blackrock-rfc-agrees-to-sell-land-to-cuala-to-ease-debt-1.1612361

stephen_n

gaius c wrote: »

Why didn't you raise a complaint?

Whats the point? Branch won't do anything about it anyway, it's junior rugby, this has always been the way and always will, you just get on with it. End of the day, we play the game we love and thankfully there is the structure there to do that, we are never going to win the league anyway, so it's more a poor reflection of clubs like Moonkstown than anything else.

chris85

stephen_n wrote: »

Whats the point? Branch won't do anything about it anyway, it's junior rugby, this has always been the way and always will, you just get on with it. End of the day, we play the game we love and thankfully there is the structure there to do that, we are never going to win the league anyway, so it's more a poor reflection of clubs like Moonkstown than anything else.

In fairness the branch have taken some action on this in recent seasons. Lansdowne this year had point deductions in div 6 from fielding illegal players last season.

gaius c

Branch will do something if you go about it the right way. Bring a camera to your games for starters.
Ref DLSP in the J5 cup a few years back when eyebrows got raised after they blitzed the Emerald Warriors 99-0 and then beat Clontarf after doing nothing special in the league.

Eoin

Is it even that hard to play ringers legally? If a club isn't interested in developing players and wants to stack lower teams to get a few league titles, it's probably quite easy to do it within the rules.

chris85

gaius c wrote: »

Branch will do something if you go about it the right way. Bring a camera to your games for starters.
Ref DLSP in the J5 cup a few years back when eyebrows got raised after they blitzed the Emerald Warriors 99-0 and then beat Clontarf after doing nothing special in the league.

That game DLSP game against Tarf came to mind! They got kicked out of the cup. Some of the players fielded was shocking.

stephen_n

chris85 wrote: »

In fairness the branch have taken some action on this in recent seasons. Lansdowne this year had point deductions in div 6 from fielding illegal players last season.

Yes but it isn't changing the issue, sporadic punishments don't change things, sure the week before we played Bective and they had three players who played AIL last season and one Development player from their under 20's, it's junior rugby and that's just how it is. In fairness I would say what Monkstown did was bordering on dangerous though.

chris85

stephen_n wrote: »

Yes but it isn't changing the issue, sporadic punishments don't change things, sure the week before we played Bective and they had three players who played AIL last season and one Development player from their under 20's, it's junior rugby and that's just how it is. In fairness I would say what Monkstown did was bordering on dangerous though.

Agree but ultimately no reporting of it means nothing can possibly be done. I would imagine the branch struggle with proving illegal players there. The club may put one team on paper and another show up. Proof needed to show illegal players i think is key problem.

gaius c

chris85 wrote: »

That game DLSP game against Tarf came to mind! They got kicked out of the cup. Some of the players fielded was shocking.

Technically speaking, they didn't get kicked out. They "withdrew", partly because their explanations re the J5 team were causing the branch to start looking at teamsheets for their other teams.

Losty Dublin

stephen_n wrote: »

Whats the point? Branch won't do anything about it anyway, it's junior rugby, this has always been the way and always will, you just get on with it. End of the day, we play the game we love and thankfully there is the structure there to do that, we are never going to win the league anyway, so it's more a poor reflection of clubs like Moonkstown than anything else.

A teamsheet should include a players name and ID number and is dealt with on the day. If players are fielded outside of their home league then it needs to be pulled up; the Branch don't comb through sheets for spot checks. All it takes is for a query to go in and a check shouldn't take too long; if there are issues then they will be chased up.

On AIL players and the like, some players hold a dual status which allows them to play in two different leagues under certain circumstances. I don't think that this actually extends to fielding 3 or 4 players at once nor for minor level teams. Certainly, if I was an AIL or Colt's team coach I wouldn't be happy if my first team players were risking injury playing the Unidares and Parkmore's of the world and I'd take steps to prevent it happening.

Eoin

Losty Dublin wrote: »

On AIL players and the like, some players hold a dual status which allows them to play in two different leagues under certain circumstances. I don't think that this actually extends to fielding 3 or 4 players at once nor for minor level teams.

Yeah, I think that just means a J1 player can also play at AIL level for another club - but they're primarily registered to the Junior club.

LeinsterDub

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Certainly, if I was an AIL or Colt's team coach I wouldn't be happy if my first team players were risking injury playing the Unidares and Parkmore's of the world and I'd take steps to prevent it happening.

Are the mean boys from Finglas and Ballymun to rough for you?

Losty Dublin

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Are the mean boys from Finglas and Ballymun to rough for you?

No but the retro Jews that are Parkmore are :pac:

The point here is that a senior squad may player hurt himself playing minor level ball and end up out of action. It has happened many a time before