J4/J5 [Social Rugby] Season 2013/14

Bort Ort

Like to the look of the new format.

Should lead to a far more even split across the standards.

Will be very interested to see how they regulate how high / low players can move between teams - e.g. if a club has a team in Div 2 and their next team is division 7/8 can players move between them.

Should be able to come up with rules around this though so overall looking forward to it.

shoutman

I assume nothing has come into play to stop a load of ex high level players coming back down the bottom of the ladder for a post christmas cup run?

Bort Ort

shoutman wrote: »

I assume nothing has come into play to stop a load of ex high level players coming back down the bottom of the ladder for a post christmas cup run?

What would you propose to counter this?

stephen_n

Bort Ort wrote: »

What would you propose to counter this?

A rating system where players who have played at a high level can't play below say division 6 for at least 5 years after there last high level game.

Eoin

stephen_n wrote: »

A rating system where players who have played at a high level can't play below say division 6 for at least 5 years after there last high level game.

That sounds a bit drastic. What would you consider a high level? J1?

.ak

Yeah, and who'd rate the players?

Losty Dublin

Such a ban would need to be very carefully thought out before it could be brought in as it can do a lot more harm than it can good if it's done wrong. Players who made a couple of appearances on a team that is over and above their normal skill level, say to cover for injuries or player shortages, are very common in most clubs.

Then there are those who are dropping down a level or three from old age or injury; there are plenty of them who would be affected. Also, what about the guys who have player coach roles with teams? Again, these guys are common in the metro/junior game and it makes life a lot harder for them if playing whilst obtaining coaching badges is out of the question.

Lastly, there are guys for whom playing on a given day is out of the question and who have no choice but to change squads or even clubs to get a run out.

There are definite issues with players playing for their club at too low a squad for their level. However the solution is a little more complex than banning players from moving up or down and it needs to be done right if it's to be done.

Eponymous

I agree that something has to be done, but I think the key issue isn't a lad who plays J4 or J5 and is pulled up to bench or start a couple of games for J3 or higher and then comes back to his normal level.

The issue is teams playing at J4 and J5 and come cup time there's lads who must wake way for players who have clearly come down from much higher levels to aid the clubs quest for silverware... I'm sure there's many of us who've played in J4 or J5 cup competitions and wondered where the hell some of the players have appeared from!

jamesbondings

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

haha, not sure what it is tbh, physio in my club at home told me three or four different things and its never really cleared up, can be fine some days and horrible the next

Would each squad in Clontarf train together?

Training for j4s and j5s in tarf starting on the 19th of august as far as i know.
j4s and 5s train together on occasion only mostly separate though depends mainly on the turn out for a session

Eoin

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Such a ban would need to be very carefully thought out before it could be brought in as it can do a lot more harm than it can good if it's done wrong. Players who made a couple of appearances on a team that is over and above their normal skill level, say to cover for injuries or player shortages, are very common in most clubs.

Then there are those who are dropping down a level or three from old age or injury; there are plenty of them who would be affected. Also, what about the guys who have player coach roles with teams? Again, these guys are common in the metro/junior game and it makes life a lot harder for them if playing whilst obtaining coaching badges is out of the question.

Lastly, there are guys for whom playing on a given day is out of the question and who have no choice but to change squads or even clubs to get a run out.

There are definite issues with players playing for their club at too low a squad for their level. However the solution is a little more complex than banning players from moving up or down and it needs to be done right if it's to be done.

Also, what if the club doesn't even have a lower team in a league that the player would be eligible for? e.g. someone dropping down from J1 to a div 7 J4 team.

Losty Dublin

Eoin wrote: »

Also, what if the club doesn't even have a lower team in a league that the player would be eligible for? e.g. someone dropping down from J1 to a div 7 J4 team.

When you mention that, there was a Metro J 4 club who had an ex international playing for them some years back. While the lad in question was not capped by a major nation he had still played to a very high level in a top tier national club some years ago before the professional game arrived. He moved here to work and had given up playing through injury and apathy before returning at J 4 level, albeit in his late 30's and was loving it again. Numerous big clubs approached him but he stayed put for several years; I reckon he was well retired by now

Tim Robbins

Losty Dublin wrote: »

When you mention that, there was a Metro J 4 club who had an ex international playing for them some years back. While the lad in question was not capped by a major nation he had still played to a very high level in a top tier national club some years ago before the professional game arrived. He moved here to work and had given up playing through injury and apathy before returning at J 4 level, albeit in his late 30's and was loving it again. Numerous big clubs approached him but he stayed put for several years; I reckon he was well retired by now

If nearly every J4 team there are players who either have played at a way higher level or could. In the last few seasons I remember seeing a super 10 playing for Barnhall and some body builder dude playing for Tallaght. The Tallaght lad has the physicality to play at a much higher level - super tackler.

Losty Dublin

Tim Robbins wrote: »

If nearly every J4 team there are players who either have played at a way higher level or could. In the last few seasons I remember seeing a super 10 playing for Barnhall and some body builder dude playing for Tallaght. The Tallaght lad has the physicality to play at a much higher level - super tackler.

I saw the body builder guy play before; he wasn't up to much when I saw him though he sure was strong.

The super 10 guy; I can't remember his name but wasn't the deal with him was that he was limited to junior leagues as couldn't get clearance to play AIL or some such complication?

Pudsy33

Losty Dublin wrote: »

I saw the body builder guy play before; he wasn't up to much when I saw him though he sure was strong.

The super 10 guy; I can't remember his name but wasn't the deal with him was that he was limited to junior leagues as couldn't get clearance to play AIL or some such complication?

The "bodybuilder" guy has moved on to a higher level with a different club, but at the time he was in our strongest team in Tallaght. He could only play about 20mins at full pelt when I played with him, his aerobic fitness lacked.

stephen_n

Eoin wrote: »

That sounds a bit drastic. What would you consider a high level? J1?

.ak wrote: »

Yeah, and who'd rate the players?

J1 or senior players


Not rated on ability but on the highest standard achieved i.e. regularly playing at J1 or above


It's not ban they could still play but just at a more suitable level. The practice is unfair both to the players in these clubs who turn out all year and the smaller cubs who don't have ability to call on these players. My first yera at senior level, coming off the 19's I played in the then J8 cup our team had two ex internationals in it, admittedly they were in their 40's at that stage but the gulf in class was silly.

phil devlin

love to get back playing again. Anyone on any teams that are recruiting new players.

Losty Dublin

phil devlin wrote: »

love to get back playing again. Anyone on any teams that are recruiting new players.

They all are, Phil and that not's being smart Where are you based and what level of rugby are you capable of playing?

chippers

phil devlin wrote: »

love to get back playing again. Anyone on any teams that are recruiting new players.

Wanderers fc ( the current j4 cup holders who only had members of their j4 squad playing in the cup!) are meeting up on saturday at merrion road at 11:30 for some social tip. Afterwards the plan is to have a few pints and watch the seniors play.

Itll be a mix of the j3 and j4 squads so the standard should be fine for anyone to take part. New recruits will be warmly welcomed so dont hesitate to come down. It should be a good laugh and a nice introduction to a few lads you'll be training with.

the grounds are off the Merrion roadin ballsbridge between the bewleys hotel and the merrion shopping center. Any questions let me know.

Itll

.ak

Gonna have to wait til payday to get a custom gumshield made, but in the meantime can anyone recommend any decent cheap gumshields to buy around town? Need it by Monday...

Eponymous

.ak wrote: »

Gonna have to wait til payday to get a custom gumshield made, but in the meantime can anyone recommend any decent cheap gumshields to buy around town? Need it by Monday...

Elvery's have Shock Doctor gumshields.

I have used these in the past and found them great. Just need to be careful during the moulding process.

.ak

Yep, I bought a cheap opro gumshield and messed up the moulding process! Left it a wee bit too long in the hot water and bit right through it! :P

dregin

Any measure to control player movements between levels must include photo ID, which shouldn't be too hard in this day and age.

Any player can tell the ref another player's name - the ref won't know any better without a list of players with photos beside names.

phil devlin

Losty Dublin wrote: »

They all are, Phil and that not's being smart Where are you based and what level of rugby are you capable of playing?

played j3 a few years ago, based in south west dublin

shoutman

dregin wrote: »

Any measure to control player movements between levels must include photo ID, which shouldn't be too hard in this day and age.

Any player can tell the ref another player's name - the ref won't know any better without a list of players with photos beside names.

Agree with this, don't know why this hasn't been brought in before.
Everybody in this day and age has some form of ID, doesn't have to be official rugby club cards, just need all players to be registered and a quick check of id's before hand... wouldn't take more than a minute.

To the poster wondering about clontarf social rugby. It starts back this Monday, and will be monday's and wedensdays from 7.

Generally both teams train together, possibly splitting up on the Thursday to do team runs etc. Would imagine the first few weeks will be fitness work and not too much physical contact.
I'm absolutely dreading it as I am about as unfit as I've ever been!

shoutman

phil devlin wrote: »

played j3 a few years ago, based in south west dublin

South West Dublin - I'd suggest Tallaght or Clondalkin. Both have decent teams at junior levels.

Losty Dublin

dregin wrote: »

Any measure to control player movements between levels must include photo ID, which shouldn't be too hard in this day and age.

Any player can tell the ref another player's name - the ref won't know any better without a list of players with photos beside names.

Referees are told to just referee the game on the day; no more no less. Who plays for what team on a given day isn't our business to sort out, that's for teams to deal with themselves.

ColmH81

Pudsy33 wrote: »

The "bodybuilder" guy has moved on to a higher level with a different club, but at the time he was in our strongest team in Tallaght. He could only play about 20mins at full pelt when I played with him, his aerobic fitness lacked.

He wouldn't happened to have moved to Clondalkin by any chance.. They have someone that mat hes thia description..

ColmH81

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Referees are told to just referee the game on the day; no more no less. Who plays for what team on a given day isn't our business to sort out, that's for teams to deal with themselves.

Am I right in saying most clubs now have to submit teamsheets online before games?? If so, why not have a player profile pic beside the names..

Pudsy33

ColmH81 wrote: »

He wouldn't happened to have moved to Clondalkin by any chance.. They have someone that mat hes thia description..

Nah think he's with the guards man.

.ak

Looking forward to breaking my J4/5 cherry with training on monday. Should be good! What's training like on the first few sessions?

Pudsy33

.ak wrote: »

Looking forward to breaking my J4/5 cherry with training on monday. Should be good! What's training like on the first few sessions?

Depends on the club, but tallaght are currently making us drag tyres around the field and running us into the ground :pac:

.ak

Clontarf.

That sounds delightful...

jamesbondings

.ak wrote: »

Clontarf.

That sounds delightful...

Word in the club today was circuit training no contact for two to three weeks

dregin

.ak wrote: »

Looking forward to breaking my J4/5 cherry with training on monday. Should be good! What's training like on the first few sessions?

We've been working cardio mostly for the last few weeks. After half a year out it's been pretty hellish >_<

Losty Dublin

ColmH81 wrote: »

Am I right in saying most clubs now have to submit teamsheets online before games?? If so, why not have a player profile pic beside the names..

Not sure, man. ARLB's pre season seminar is tomorrow so it may get a mention; if it does I'll report back to you.

MeTV

Full pre-season training for Wanderers FC's Juniors (J3/J4) gets underway tonight at half 7 in Merrion Road (serviced by both buses and DARTs going to & from town).

New players -whether transferring from another club, taking rugby up again after a break or completely new to the game - are more than welcome to come down and get involved.

If you've any questions, feel free to PM me.

shoutman

.ak wrote: »

Looking forward to breaking my J4/5 cherry with training on monday. Should be good! What's training like on the first few sessions?

I'll see you up there!
I'll be the one puking after five minutes. I've never been so unfit and am still recovering after the weekend....

.ak

Great, I won't be alone in the unfit category then.

Bort Ort

On the suggested format of the leagues, it mentioned only 1 team up and down from each league with that one team decided by a play-off. Presumably this is seriously open to abuse - perhaps more so than stacking a team for a cup run...

Would prefer simple league format with no play-offs. Also, think two up two down would be better for teams to find their level quicker, leagues to settle down and maintain interest of all teams right to the end.

ColmH81

Bort Ort wrote: »

On the suggested format of the leagues, it mentioned only 1 team up and down from each league with that one team decided by a play-off. Presumably this is seriously open to abuse - perhaps more so than stacking a team for a cup run...

Would prefer simple league format with no play-offs. Also, think two up two down would be better for teams to find their level quicker, leagues to settle down and maintain interest of all teams right to the end.

This is true.. A well put together team could end up finishing second in the league and become disinterested the next season.. No play off would be fairer..

Teferi

So how did the first day back treat you .ak? Did you die?

.ak

Teferi wrote: »

So how did the first day back treat you .ak? Did you die?

Ha, in bits all right! Actually it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, I faired alright.

Have to say anybody thinking of joining a club to start playing and haven't made up their mind, I couldn't recommend it enough. The banter was great, I spent most of the evening doubled over with laughter. Great work out without thinking about it really.

My feet are in bits though! Literally. Blisters and sores! I'm hoping that's just because my boots are new, or maybe the cheap socks, also I found because the ground was quite firm that my studded boots wrecked my joints and felt quite cumbersome... Hope the pitch gets softer!

dregin

.ak wrote: »

Hope the pitch gets softer!

You're in Ireland. Come December, you'll be wearing armbands to training

.ak

That's what I was thinking. Might but a set if FG studs in the meantime. It felt like the studs were going up through my soul of my foot!

dregin

Probably a wise move. It's pretty **** picking up an injury this early in the season. Did my ankle in this time last year and could never really get back into it for the rest of the season.

ScissorPaperRock

Played my first game on Saturday, and three days later I can barely move. I was pretty surprised, since I'd be relatively fit anyway, but I've never been so crippled after a physical activity in my life. I'm thinking heavy squats and deadlifts the previous day might have been a bad idea! Even pulled a quad muscle while sprinting during the match, but at least it seems to have healed itself to the extent that that leg doesn't feel much worse than my other leg now.

Can't wait for more!

.ak

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

Played my first game on Saturday, and three days later I can barely move. I was pretty surprised, since I'd be relatively fit anyway, but I've never been so crippled after a physical activity in my life. I'm thinking heavy squats and deadlifts the previous day might have been a bad idea! Even pulled a quad muscle while sprinting during the match, but at least it seems to have healed itself to the extent that that leg doesn't feel much worse than my other leg now.

Can't wait for more!

I'm in bits today! Funnily enough my work out sessions are generally more intense, but I'm not used to putting so much pressure on my joints. Think I'll be concentrating on building strength in my legs from now on, my knees and ankles feel like a 40 year old's today!

shoutman

.ak wrote: »

I'm in bits today! Funnily enough my work out sessions are generally more intense, but I'm not used to putting so much pressure on my joints. Think I'll be concentrating on building strength in my legs from now on, my knees and ankles feel like a 40 year old's today!

Reckon you're best off wearing runners or astroturf boots for the first few weeks, especially when there is no contact yet.

Last night was definitely an easing back in session, they'll certainly be ramping it up in the coming weeks but thankfully we shouldn't return to the days of just constant sprints and no ball work.

Glad you enjoyed it anyway!

.ak

I only have a crappy pair of runners, so would something like this do the trick?

http://www.elverys.ie/Product/Adidas-F10-TRX-Astro-Boot-NavyPurple/220074/0000000983

Losty Dublin

.ak wrote: »

I only have a crappy pair of runners, so would something like this do the trick?

http://www.elverys.ie/Product/Adidas-F10-TRX-Astro-Boot-NavyPurple/220074/0000000983

You are better off getting an actual pair of runners; that way you will have something to wear should you have indoor sessions.