Time for Leinster to stay at Lansdowne road?

stpaddy99

at the moment they sell out the RDS nearly every match
when they play at Lansdown they always get big crowds, the derby is a sell out 50,000 plus Heineken they always top 30,000 plus

so why not stay at Lansdowne?

as it is theyre one of the best supported teams in Europe
but still behind Toulouse and Leicester ....because the ground is smaller, their average gate is probably 17000 at rds

if they stayed at lansdown over a whole season what would that average be over a whole season?

Id guess well over 25,000?

your thoughts?

Clareman

Because they have already signed a lease on the RDS, they wouldn't be able to fill (or even get half capacity) for the majority of games and because if they were to have the Aviva as their home ground they wouldn't be able to play a semi-final there. Their current setup of a ground they can sell out regularly along with the Aviva when they need a larger ground is ideal for them.

Podge_irl

That semi final rule is gone.

Lansdowne is simply too big. It's a fantastic resource to have for Leinster to move to when needed but they certainly don't sell out nearly every game in the RDS. They sell out the HEC games and a couple Rabo ones but I doubt the move would make financial sense for the majority of games. Also playing in a half full stadium constantly would be awful for players and fans.

The RDS is bring upgraded to about 22k which is perfect for now and for the foreseeable future. If they have the demand to move in 15 years when the lease is up then that's the time to do it. They should definitely try and negotiate a better lease deal with the RDS though

stpaddy99

when is this expansion to 22000 meant to be happening....as it stands theyre losing 8000 to 10000 ticket sales per match by not playing at Lansdowne road.....even if they don't move, they should play more matches there and yes leinster do get close to or sell out nearly every home match

Cookiemunster

stpaddy99 wrote: »

when is this expansion to 22000 meant to be happening....as it stands theyre losing 8000 to 10000 ticket sales per match by not playing at Lansdowne road.....even if they don't move, they should play more matches there and yes leinster do get close to or sell out nearly every home match

Where are you getting these extra 8-10 thousand supporters from? Leinster pull respectable crowds, but only posted full houses in the Pro 12 at the RDS against Connacht and Ulster. They got just over 13000 to the semi final against Glasgow. There isn't a hope of them pulling an extra 8000 supporters against the likes of Zebre or the Dragons.
A big heineken cup fixture is always going to put extra bums on seats, but walk over league games aren't.

LostArt

stpaddy99 wrote: »

when is this expansion to 22000 meant to be happening....as it stands theyre losing 8000 to 10000 ticket sales per match by not playing at Lansdowne road.....even if they don't move, they should play more matches there and yes leinster do get close to or sell out nearly every home match

where are you getting 8-10k from? and it also does cost Leinster to rent Lansdowne road for a game.

phog

stpaddy99 wrote: »

at the moment they sell out the RDS nearly every match
when they play at Lansdown they always get big crowds, the derby is a sell out 50,000 plus Heineken they always top 30,000 plus

so why not stay at Lansdowne?

as it is theyre one of the best supported teams in Europe
but still behind Toulouse and Leicester ....because the ground is smaller, their average gate is probably 17000 at rds

if they stayed at lansdown over a whole season what would that average be over a whole season?

Id guess well over 25,000?

your thoughts?

To get an average of 25k in the Aviva you'd have peaks and troughs, I hate to be in the Aviva for the trough. Leinster can manage the gate receipts quite well by having the bigger games in the Aviva, they might prefer to hold a few more but they seem to be contracted to hold X number of games in the RDS.

Their lowest attendance this season was 13K, imagine that in the Aviva, even double it could look poor.

stpaddy99

LostArt wrote: »

where are you getting 8-10k from? and it also does cost Leinster to rent Lansdowne road for a game.

I realise theres a rental charge.....every time they play there they get at least 10,000 more sometimes 30,000 more ...obviously this varies....but fans simply prefer attending a world class stadium like Lansdowne with greta viewing positions too.....its the same when the London clubs play at Twickenham or Cardiff at millennium stadium....the venue itself adds thousands sometimes tens of thousands.....some indoor gigs don't sell out, but the same acts get 30.000 40,000 plus crowds when they turn up at a world class stadium...the test stadiums have greater access to everything, booze, food, hats, scarves, toilets etc etc and of course way better viewing ....youll find also women and children prefer the comfort and feel safer in a modern stadium.its the way of the modern world people want and demand luxury....

stpaddy99

phog wrote: »

To get an average of 25k in the Aviva you'd have peaks and troughs, I hate to be in the Aviva for the trough. Leinster can manage the gate receipts quite well by having the bigger games in the Aviva, they might prefer to hold a few more but they seem to be contracted to hold X number of games in the RDS.

Their lowest attendance this season was 13K, imagine that in the Aviva, even double it could look poor.

looking poor? 26000 ? who cares about looking poor? an extra 13000 tickets at £30 is £390,000 plus 13000 extra buying food, hats , booze, scarves, programmes, coach tickets, maybe theyd be tempted to retun and buy more tickets etc yes wed need to share it with the IRFU but so what its all profit

Id expect 130000 extra to net us £500,000 plus pretty sure that would cover the rent

personally id play there a lot more....lets become the biggest supported club in europe

.ak

Good God no. People will stop going when they feel the stadium offers no match day experience and Leinster start losing because they don't have their usual 'blue army' vocal fan base.

stpaddy99

.ak wrote: »

Good God no. People will stop going when they feel the stadium offers no match day experience and Leinster start losing because they don't have their usual 'blue army' vocal fan base.

I have no idea what youre talking about now

ArmaniJeanss

stpaddy99 wrote: »

looking poor? 26000 ? who cares about looking poor? an extra 13000 tickets at £30 is £390,000 plus 13000 extra buying food, hats , booze, scarves, programmes, coach tickets, maybe theyd be tempted to retun and buy more tickets etc yes wed need to share it with the IRFU but so what its all profit

Id expect 130000 extra to net us £500,000 plus pretty sure that would cover the rent

personally id play there a lot more....lets become the biggest supported club in europe

In fairness if the economics of the situation were as incredibly simple and straightforward as you make out then I'm sure the IRFU/Leinster board (who I suspect include the odd person familiar with business, accountancy, supply + demand etc) would be on the case already.

phog

stpaddy99 wrote: »

looking poor? 26000 ? who cares about looking poor? an extra 13000 tickets at £30 is £390,000 plus 13000 extra buying food, hats , booze, scarves, programmes, coach tickets, maybe theyd be tempted to retun and buy more tickets etc yes wed need to share it with the IRFU but so what its all profit

Id expect 130000 extra to net us £500,000 plus pretty sure that would cover the rent

personally id play there a lot more....lets become the biggest supported club in europe

Ask yourself why haven't Leinster full houses for all their games before thinking it's so easy to half fill the Aviva not to mind filling it for the majority of the games.

I think the RDS holds about 18k without the extra capacity seating being installed, why haven't Leinster used the extra seating for all their games?

Off the 15 games in the RDS this season nine of them had less than 17k one of these was the Pro12 s/final, maybe harder to sell due to short notice.

swiftman

stpaddy, your putting the donkey before the horse!

the supporters are going to the aviva because its a big game, ie heineken vs clermount or pro12 vs munster. there not going to the aviva because the game is played there.
as pointed out, leinster have great numbers average 19k or so, most games arent sold out. they didnt play the semi vs glasgow there because there was no need.


you worked the maths out there with 30k people, it doesnt work at €30 due to kids and value of season ticket.
doesnt the aviva cost 500k per game? leinster rugby wouldnt be making much, if any more profit then the RDS

Skid X

stpaddy99 wrote: »

at the moment they sell out the RDS nearly every match

Not true.

It is a bad idea, just look at Edinburgh.

They have the right idea at the moment, the RDS for every match bar a handful of high profile games.

Swiwi.

Love the little grounds, no need to leave RDS. Should be treasured not shunned.

.ak

stpaddy99 wrote: »

I have no idea what youre talking about now

People are already giving out about the lack of atmosphere in Aviva. And that's when it's full! Imagine it only being half full? I don't mind it personally, but I would miss being in the RDS for the pre and post match banter and atmosphere. I'd imagine the average fan would too. In the Aviva you're in and out, places like Slattery's is too busy to go into after the game so you just end up skipping from bar to bar until you find one more closer to the city centre then you'd like. People would get sick of it after a while. The numbers would drop, and that would be that.

Also, the elephant in the room is the fact the RDS, whilst almost always nearly 80% full, rarely sells out.

Podge_irl

The RDS is also a lot more family friendly with the huge open areas for kids to mess around in and the unreserved seats in the north and south stands. Its a great stadium.

Plus you're steadfastly ignoring the main point that the RDS sells out for less than half the games. The aviva games are Munster which always be the biggest draw and the top HEC game played near Christmas when people go for the event. And they STILL don't sell out.

Aidric

Not being smart but Leinster aren't likely to be as dominant as they have been over the last few years. This will see a drop off in the casual supporter. The same thing happened in Munster.

Therefore the question posed in your thread would make little sense.

thomond2006

stpaddy99 wrote: »

I have no idea what youre talking about now

Diehards like to go to matches with other diehards.

stpaddy99

Skid X wrote: »

Not true.

It is a bad idea, just look at Edinburgh.

They have the right idea at the moment, the RDS for every match bar a handful of high profile games.

it is true
why compare to Edinburgh? theyre one of the poorest supported teams in Europe whereas we are on of the best at leinster....we average 20,000 (inc Lansdowne) Edinburgh average less than 5000 so your comparism is worthless

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

This would not work at all. Imagine Leinster vs Dragons in the middle of a six nations window, it'd be a ghost town

stpaddy99

thomond2006 wrote: »

Diehards like to go to matches with other diehards.

so stay small and only cater to the so called die hards and don't encourage thousands od new fans? that's hardly the attitude of a genuine fan who wants whats best for leinster

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

stpaddy99 wrote: »

so stay small and only cater to the so called die hards and don't encourage thousands od new fans? that's hardly the attitude of a genuine fan who wants whats best for leinster

You're completely ignoring the fact that although Leinster have a healthy fan base, they simply don't have the numbers to justify the move. The vast majority of Raboo games would make the stadium look vastly empty

That's not something the players, province or fans want

Skid X

If Leinster were selling out every game at the RDS and there were thousands of people desperate to get tickets, this might be a runner.

But they don't, and it isn't.

There were very few sellouts at the RDS last year.

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/team/results/results_leinster.php#.UeGS8I3ql3U

stpaddy99

Skid X wrote: »

If Leinster were selling out every game at the RDS and there were thousands of people desperate to get tickets, this might be a runner.

But they don't, and it isn't.

There were very few sellouts at the RDS last year.

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/team/results/results_leinster.php#.UeGS8I3ql3U

as Ive said many times, more fans would turn up at a world class venue like Lansdowne, the quality of the venue compared to rds would net thousands more as has already been proved. this is an experiemtn worth taking as the upside outweighs the downside massively. its only the cynical views of people who want to keep leinster small that prevent this experiement happening. this narrow minded view is sad and is part reason why rugby hasn't grown to a world sport to challenge football

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

stpaddy99 wrote: »

as Ive said many times, more fans would turn up at a world class venue like Lansdowne, the quality of the venue compared to rds would net thousands more as has already been proved. this is an experiemtn worth taking as the upside outweighs the downside massively. its only the cynical views of people who want to keep leinster small that prevent this experiement happening. this narrow minded view is sad and is part reason why rugby hasn't grown to a world sport to challenge football

You're still completely missing the point

It's not viable at all, even people have no insight into Leinsters intake of ticket money and tickets sold could tell your that by just looking at a less than capacity RDS for most rabo games

If it was viable, it would happen, but it's not at all

Basically your whole argument is "if they build it, they will come".

swiftman

stpaddy99 wrote: »

as Ive said many times, more fans would turn up at a world class venue like Lansdowne, the quality of the venue compared to rds would net thousands more as has already been proved. this is an experiemtn worth taking as the upside outweighs the downside massively. its only the cynical views of people who want to keep leinster small that prevent this experiement happening. this narrow minded view is sad and is part reason why rugby hasn't grown to a world sport to challenge football

this is a forum or ive no idea what college and coarses you have done.
leinster rugby pay people who have masters from top colleges good money to expand the club. they know what there doing.

how can you explan how leinster will pay 500k per game?
if you cant answer this, then your point is invalid

overshoot

stpaddy99 wrote: »

so stay small and only cater to the so called die hards and don't encourage thousands od new fans? that's hardly the attitude of a genuine fan who wants whats best for leinster

as has been said REPEATEDLY if leinster were selling out every game you may have a point but they are not! and looking to a future without BOD, sexton, darcy etc, and a rising ulster where they may not be the dominent force and have the same crowd pulling capacity.
the RDS is expanding anyway so there will be extra capacity.
they move game to the aviva as they are glamour fixtures, the games the bandwagoners and neutrals have an interest in and the games where fans tight on money, who work weekends will make an extra effort to go.

if its all about a shiny building with extra capacity, why can ospreys not half fill the liberty stadium and edinburgh... where's the 38,000 who was at the toulouse QF now?

and all thats just about addressing bums on seats, never mind the extra cost in using the stadium! plus give me a cosy atmospheric 90% full stadium over a half full wake house even if it is the same numbers at both

edit if its all about capacity why did Juventus knock their 69,000 capacity stadium and reduce it to 41,000?

Aidric

stpaddy99 wrote: »

as Ive said many times, more fans would turn up at a world class venue like Lansdowne, the quality of the venue compared to rds would net thousands more as has already been proved. this is an experiemtn worth taking as the upside outweighs the downside massively. its only the cynical views of people who want to keep leinster small that prevent this experiement happening. this narrow minded view is sad and is part reason why rugby hasn't grown to a world sport to challenge football

This isn't 'Field of Dreams'.

P_1

A comparable enough situation would be to look at the likes of the Blues and Tahs in the Super 15. They regularly play games in stadia the same size as Lansdowne, do well to half fill them and generally the atmosphere is dire.

I'd rather not see that happen with Leinster to be honest

Swiwi.

P_1 wrote: »

A comparable enough situation would be to look at the likes of the Blues and Tahs in the Super 15. They regularly play games in stadia the same size as Lansdowne, do well to half fill them and generally the atmosphere is dire.

I'd rather not see that happen with Leinster to be honest

Absolutely! Seeing the Crusaders play at a sold out Addington stadium is much preferable to the old Jade Stadium, which was a pretty soulless beast. The new stadium will be built right in town, and follow Dunedin's lead with being covered etc. Should be fab.

stpaddy99

P_1 wrote: »

A comparable enough situation would be to look at the likes of the Blues and Tahs in the Super 15. They regularly play games in stadia the same size as Lansdowne, do well to half fill them and generally the atmosphere is dire.

I'd rather not see that happen with Leinster to be honest

and they take in way more money which pays the bills and wages and the crowds get a chance to grow year on year

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

stpaddy99 wrote: »

and they take in way more money which pays the bills and wages and the crowds get a chance to grow year on year

But they don't. The Aviva is only profitable if they can more or less fill it everytime, which wouldn't happen in a millions years, it would be empty half the time

P_1

stpaddy99 wrote: »

and they take in way more money which pays the bills and wages and the crowds get a chance to grow year on year

I'd imagine that the reason they do so is because they don't have to shell out a half million a pop to rent the ground for each match

copacetic

stpaddy99 wrote: »

as Ive said many times, more fans would turn up at a world class venue like Lansdowne, the quality of the venue compared to rds would net thousands more as has already been proved. this is an experiemtn worth taking as the upside outweighs the downside massively. its only the cynical views of people who want to keep leinster small that prevent this experiement happening. this narrow minded view is sad and is part reason why rugby hasn't grown to a world sport to challenge football

Rubbish, the vast majority of Leinster fans prefer the RDS. It's a better athmosphere, it's better located, easier to get in and out of and has better facilities. No-one goes to a game because it's in a bigger stadium if they wouldn't in a smaller one. In fact Leinster have to spend weeks promoting even the big games in Aviva just to get the numbers up.

Apart from that it costs a fortune to rent the aviva, it's not available for a lot of the games, and we have to use RDS.

So, thread is mind boggingly ill thought out. Possibly even a piss take?

irishbucsfan

stpaddy99 wrote: »

and they take in way more money which pays the bills and wages and the crowds get a chance to grow year on year

They don't take more money

swiftman

copacetic wrote: »

Apart from that it costs a fortune to rent the aviva, it's not available for a lot of the games, and we have to use RDS.

So, thread is mind boggingly ill thought out. Possibly even a piss take?

between this thread and the one about gavin henson and a poster saying its ok to break a glass over someones head, there is more realistic thread going on in after hours

overshoot

copacetic wrote: »

Rubbish, the vast majority of Leinster fans prefer the RDS. It's a better athmosphere, it's better located, easier to get in and out of and has better facilities. No-one goes to a game because it's in a bigger stadium if they wouldn't in a smaller one. In fact Leinster have to spend weeks promoting even the big games in Aviva just to get the numbers up.

Apart from that it costs a fortune to rent the aviva, it's not available for a lot of the games, and we have to use RDS.

So, thread is mind boggingly ill thought out. Possibly even a piss take?

so given that the above was the only person who thanked the OP, i think that leaves him well and truly on his own with this opinion!

if the op can somehow provide a way of actually getting actual bums on seats for the likes of zebre or how leinster could afford an extra 500k per home match i will bow.... but we have been waiting a long time!

have to say it, definitely a thread i wish i hadnt clicked on

nc6000

Every game at the RDS is a sell-out? No it's not, not by a long way.

phog

stpaddy99 wrote: »

as Ive said many times, more fans would turn up at a world class venue like Lansdowne, the quality of the venue compared to rds would net thousands more as has already been proved. this is an experiemtn worth taking as the upside outweighs the downside massively

OK, give me the facts?

How much us the rent for the RDS?
What does Leinster make from ticket sales?
How much is the rent for the Aviva
What has Leinster made from their games there so far?
Would the IRFU allow Leinster use the Aviva Stadium for all their home games?

thomond2006

stpaddy99 wrote: »

as Ive said many times, more fans would turn up at a world class venue like Lansdowne, the quality of the venue compared to rds would net thousands more as has already been proved. this is an experiemtn worth taking as the upside outweighs the downside massively. its only the cynical views of people who want to keep leinster small that prevent this experiement happening. this narrow minded view is sad and is part reason why rugby hasn't grown to a world sport to challenge football

So basically people who disagree with your suggestion that isn't backed up with any facts are cynical and narrow minded. Great argument.

The RDS seems to be universally praised as a rugby venue, any move would have to be very advantageous as I imagine many Leinster fans would be against moving from a full small stadium to a half empty big stadium.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

thomond2006 wrote: »

So basically people who disagree with your suggestion that isn't backed up with any facts are cynical and narrow minded. Great argument.

The RDS seems to be universally praised as a rugby venue, any move would have to be very advantageous as I imagine many Leinster fans would be against moving from a full small stadium to a half empty big stadium.

Or biased! don't forget biased !

[Jackass]

If the sport keeps growing the way it has, I'd say the idea might be a runner in 15 / 20 years, but for now, absolutely no way. Some Pro12 games get a generous attendance figure of 15,000 - imagine that in a 52,000 stadium...and good luck creating an atmosphere with those numbers too - it's hard enough to get the atmosphere going in Lansdowne Road when it's a full house!

I also think you're overstating the significance of the venue in boosting attendance. Whilst it definitely would have buzz factor at first, that may last a season or two, that would ware thin after a while and the realistic fact is that there just aren't 52,000 people or even 30,000 people around the province who would turn up every week.

Look at Thomond Park in the season just gone - when they were flying high in Europe and when the stadium first opened you saw a full house most of the time, even for league games. Now they're lucky if they can get the place half full in the league. Terraces look entirely bare and "Munster" writing in the stands is often still visible. There's nothing to say the same couldn't happen Leinster after the novelty of Lansdowne wore off and if performances fell off also - Leinster would be in a worse position of potentially not able to fill a quarter of the stadium, let alone half.

CIARAN_BOYLE

stpaddy99 wrote: »

when is this expansion to 22000 meant to be happening....as it stands theyre losing 8000 to 10000 ticket sales per match by not playing at Lansdowne road.....even if they don't move, they should play more matches there and yes leinster do get close to or sell out nearly every home match

When the RDS finds a naming rights sponsor. They have explansion plans but no cash and no appetite to borrow.

Dravokivich

How often do you go to those matches OP? A lot of RDS matches from Nov - April tend to be nowhere near sell outs. A lot of the attendance figures aren't exactly accurate for that period as they still count season ticket holders that don't show up.

Eponymous

I must say, the idea of going to regular games at Lansdowne Road fills me with dread. Imagine playing at home to Zebre on a cold and wet Sunday afternoon in January!

The atmosphere is dire, the intensity of the crowd at the RDS gets diluted there between the sheer size of the venue and the number of day-trippers who seem more intent on tweeting, facebooking (if that's a valid verb) and moaning about the actual fans who are trying to get the support going.

Honestly, I hate going to Leinster games in Lansdowne Road. I still believe we'd have beaten ASM if we'd played in RDS, but instead we were outgunned by their travelling support who found tickets very easy to get. When you consider the only other really vocal fans we met last season were those from Exeter and it was relatively easy to drown them out because their numbers were kept small at the RDS.

.ak

Eponymous wrote: »

I must say, the idea of going to regular games at Lansdowne Road fills me with dread. Imagine playing at home to Zebre on a cold and wet Sunday afternoon in January!

The atmosphere is dire, the intensity of the crowd at the RDS gets diluted there between the sheer size of the venue and the number of day-trippers who seem more intent on tweeting, facebooking (if that's a valid verb) and moaning about the actual fans who are trying to get the support going.

Honestly, I hate going to Leinster games in Lansdowne Road. I still believe we'd have beaten ASM if we'd played in RDS, but instead we were outgunned by their travelling support who found tickets very easy to get. When you consider the only other really vocal fans we met last season were those from Exeter and it was relatively easy to drown them out because their numbers were kept small at the RDS.

Just to note, there actually wasn't that many ASM fans in LR. They just made themselves heard, and the Leinster support couldn't get going because for every Leinster fan there was about 20 people there for the scoops.

Podge_irl

Leinster didn't lose to Clermont because of the support. Clermont were the better team in nearly every facet.

jamiedav2011

Leinster can create a great atmosphere in Lansdowne. The Toulouse and Leicester games and the first Clermont game there good examples (even though it was literally Baltic).

However, it does definitely attract the bandwagon, the lads home for Christmas going for a few scoops, and the people who attend the RDS weekly are not heard. The Clermont game this year was dire.

On the other hand, that's exactly what they're trying to attract, and I'd imagine these games are a huge money spinner, both in terms of actual on the night revenue, and the amount of people turned onto the game after a good night out.

Btw, the atmosphere in the RDS can be awful too at times, just as it can be thunderous (that Clermont QF is still one of my fave Leinster games to have attended)

thetl

Most matches in the Rds aren't sell outs you only have to hear the laughs from supporters when the announcer try's to tell everybody that tonight's attendance / ticket sales are 165000 when clearly there would be nowhere near that . There would be virtually no atmosphere with 14000 people rattling around the aviva stadium and why would anybody bother buying a season ticket when you would be guaranteed a ticket for any game