Improvements that are needed in GAA

BarryD2

Patww79 wrote: »

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Sure, but how many titles will you accept County Dublin winning in the coming years.. before the inevitable logic sinks in?

Breaking up Dublin County for GAA is a no brainer. It's population is growing and growing and growing with a good age profile, whilst many rural counties are declining and aging.

If not by Local Authority, then simply North and South Dublin as defined by the Liffey. There's a natural rivalry there already.

ProudDUB

BarryD2 wrote: »

Sure, but how many titles will you accept County Dublin winning in the coming years.. before the inevitable logic sinks in?

Breaking up Dublin County for GAA is a no brainer. It's population is growing and growing and growing with a good age profile, whilst many rural counties are declining and aging.

If not by Local Authority, then simply North and South Dublin as defined by the Liffey. There's a natural rivalry there already.

Complete bollocks.

Dublin has always had a much, much bigger population than any other county in the country.

However, in the nearly 30 years from the last Heffo All Ireland to the Pat Gilroy one (1983 to 2011) Dublin won a grand total of one All Ireland. One.

Yet no one gave a two hoots then, about splitting us up.

But they do now? For the good of the game. Yeah right !

nice_guy80

ProudDUB wrote: »

Complete bollocks.

Dublin has always had a much, much bigger population than any other county in the country.

However, in the nearly 30 years from the last Heffo All Ireland to the Pat Gilroy one (1983 to 2011) Dublin won a grand total of one All Ireland. One.

Yet no one gave a two hoots then, about splitting us up.

But they do now? For the good of the game. Yeah right !

The Dubs weren't getting 1 million a year from the Irish sports council before 2000
And huge funding from gaa and Leinster gaa

Never had to develop their own large stadium
Nor develop their own county training grounds

MayoAreMagic

ProudDUB wrote: »

Complete bollocks.

Dublin has always had a much, much bigger population than any other county in the country.

However, in the nearly 30 years from the last Heffo All Ireland to the Pat Gilroy one (1983 to 2011) Dublin won a grand total of one All Ireland. One.

Yet no one gave a two hoots then, about splitting us up.

But they do now? For the good of the game. Yeah right !

I wouldn't consider it funny to be honest with you. For a lot of that time Dublin football was competing with the top teams but just coming up short. They weren't far away. There was no point angling for splitting them up when they were on a par with the other teams. Once the massive population advantage wasn't having any obvious negative effects then people will generally let it slide, mainly because people aren't that mean-spirited.
But clearly, now it is having an effect. And your logic is to say 'well you never complained about it before so cant start now!'? Hardly reasonable now is it?
It isn't simply one good group of players - most of that group didn't start their championship outing this year.
Even if Dublin lose this year for example. It isn't as if they are going to be gone away is it? They can just win the next 3-4 in a row after that. Imagine the apathy that will develop in the rest of the counties by that point?
We are sleepwalking towards a Celtic-SPL situation.

The reality is the moment the gaa went throwing money at Dublin to improve them, they upset the balance that had developed naturally between counties at the top level over the years. That needs to be corrected if the sport is to move forward. If it doesn't happen, the sport will ultimately suffer. I accept that you mightn't want to split Dublin, but can you offer any alternatives that would bring the thing back to something that is acceptable?

mickmackey1

ProudDUB wrote: »

Complete bollocks.

Dublin has always had a much, much bigger population than any other county in the country.

However, in the nearly 30 years from the last Heffo All Ireland to the Pat Gilroy one (1983 to 2011) Dublin won a grand total of one All Ireland. One.

Yet no one gave a two hoots then, about splitting us up.

But they do now? For the good of the game. Yeah right !

If St Vincent's or Ballymun were up against some 2-bob junior outfit in the Dublin championship, you'd be the first to say that's nonsense and meaningless. Funny how people abandon logic when it suits them.

Bonniedog

So split US and China in 5/6 ways for the Olympics.

GAA in Dublin is a minority sport in a city mostly inhabited by non nationals - sorry "New Irish."

MayoAreMagic

Bonniedog wrote: »

So split US and China in 5/6 ways for the Olympics.

GAA in Dublin is a minority sport in a city mostly inhabited by non nationals - sorry "New Irish."

Surely the fact that it is a minority sport, and they are already winning 5 out of 7 all Irelands, only underlines the level of disproportion at play. Non-nationals have children, their children grow up and play the local games. We have nabbed enough soccer players on the granny rule to know that better than anyone. With the drive in Dublin schools to get children playing gaa currently at play, it is only going one way.

If you got an objective outsider to view the thing, I believe that they would come down on the side of splitting the county going forward because it is the most logical, simplest and also best solution. I appreciate you don't want that, but can you offer a better, or at least some way comparable alternative? Because the attitude of 'shoot everything down so we can just carry on as we are' is just going to wear thin on people

Bonniedog

I don't think you are too familiar with the "New Irish"!

MayoAreMagic

Bonniedog wrote: »

I don't think you are too familiar with the "New Irish"!

Feel free to expand on that. Do you mean they refuse to get involved?

Bonniedog

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Feel free to expand on that. Do you mean they refuse to get involved?

They do their own thing. You can hardly force them to play hurling or football, or abide by any other thing, it would seem.

Dublin is a huge city now, vastly disproportionate to rest of the country. And that is not a good thing for all sorts of reasons, but Dublin GAA people are not some omnipotent entity. Most people wouldn't even know the local club.

Success of the current football team is down to exceptional players and backroom. Don't worry, it shall end

ProudDUB

mickmackey1 wrote: »

If St Vincent's or Ballymun were up against some 2-bob junior outfit in the Dublin championship, you'd be the first to say that's nonsense and meaningless. Funny how people abandon logic when it suits them.

You are going to have to explain that one to me, because I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

OldMrBrennan83

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MayoAreMagic

Patww79 wrote: »

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I don't think anyone has disputed that. The discussion was about why that has come to be the case and if that is a positive thing going forward.

Furthermore, do you not see that the rest of the gaa community chose not to take this type of attitude when the decision was taken to fund Dublin to be competitive?

Joe Dog

Bonniedog wrote: »

So split US and China in 5/6 ways for the Olympics.

GAA in Dublin is a minority sport in a city mostly inhabited by non nationals - sorry "New Irish."

GAA at inter county level is mainly their to provide entertainment so comparing it to the Olympics which is elite level international competition and where most of the sports are individual sports is complete nonsense.

78.37% of Dublins population is white Irish, with another 5% being non white irish.

Apparently in Dublin 83% of the population is a minority.

Looks like non-nationals do get involved in GAA http://https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/monrovia-to-moate-boidu-sayeh-s-extraordinary-journey-to-play-for-westmeath-1.3508433?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fsport%2Fgaelic-games%2Fgaelic-football%2Fmonrovia-to-moate-boidu-sayeh-s-extraordinary-journey-to-play-for-westmeath-1.3508433

Bonniedog

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I don't think anyone has disputed that. The discussion was about why that has come to be the case ?

You are implying that it has something to do with funding. It doesn't. Just a great bunch of players and a manager who like Cody nearly knows them since they were in their prams. Unique and probably not happen again,

danganabu

BarryD2 wrote: »

Breaking up Dublin County for GAA is something that people with no brain propose at every possible opportunity rather that take a closer look at their own deficiencies.

FYP

Bonniedog

Joe Dog wrote: »

GAA at inter county level is mainly their to provide entertainment so comparing it to the Olympics which is elite level international competition and where most of the sports are individual sports is complete nonsense.

78.37% of Dublins population is white Irish, with another 5% being non white irish.

Apparently in Dublin 83% of the population is a minority.

Looks like non-nationals do get involved in GAA http://https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/monrovia-to-moate-boidu-sayeh-s-extraordinary-journey-to-play-for-westmeath-1.3508433?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fsport%2Fgaelic-games%2Fgaelic-football%2Fmonrovia-to-moate-boidu-sayeh-s-extraordinary-journey-to-play-for-westmeath-1.3508433

If you believe that only 20% of Dublin population is non Irish, can you send me your credit card details. I am Prince of Cabra :-)

Joe Dog

Bonniedog wrote: »

If you believe that only 20% of Dublin population is non Irish, can you send me your credit card details. I am Prince of Cabra :-)

I think I'll believe the census above believing you.

MayoAreMagic

Bonniedog wrote: »

You are implying that it has something to do with funding. It doesn't. Just a great bunch of players and a manager who like Cody nearly knows them since they were in their prams. Unique and probably not happen again,

Bonniedog wrote: »

If you believe that only 20% of Dublin population is non Irish, can you send me your credit card details. I am Prince of Cabra :-)

Sorry but these obtuse, generalised answers are not going to convince anyone. Provide some facts to back them up at least.

Bonniedog

I shall not be diverted into demographics!

It's a good team. Best ever possibly and Mayo are probably second best. Such is sport.

Bonniedog

Joe Dog wrote: »

I think I'll believe the census above believing you.

The census

If you had been living in New York in 1987 when the census called, would you have said "Oh yeah, I'm an illegal immigrant." Come on now.

Joe Dog

Bonniedog wrote: »

The census

If you had been living in New York in 1987 when the census called, would you have said "Oh yeah, I'm an illegal immigrant." Come on now.

I really doubt that there are 500,000 illegal immigrants living in Dublin.

Something like that (which is what you would need for the majority of people in Dublin to be non-irish) would have made the news by now.


But by all means keep deluding yourself if thats what you want to do.

OldMrBrennan83

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Joe Dog

Patww79 wrote: »

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Which make up 17% of the Dublins population.

I was told the majority of Dublins population is non irish which is almost certainly not the case.

MayoAreMagic

Patww79 wrote: »

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So imagine how strong Dublin will be when their children inevitably start playing gaa with their friends from school?

As for yourself Bonniedog, wasn't it Chemical Ali that was standing in front of a camera denying they were under attack, while a tank rolled by in the background?

danganabu

And another fcukin thread ruined ffs :mad:

Bonniedog

Joe Dog wrote: »

I really doubt that there are 500,000 illegal immigrants living in Dublin.

Something like that (which is what you would need for the majority of people in Dublin to be non-irish) would have made the news by now.


But by all means keep deluding yourself if thats what you want to do.

I'm not the one deluding myself.

MayoAreMagic

danganabu wrote: »

And another fcukin thread ruined ffs :mad:

To get the thing back on track, I'd ask if anyone has any idea for a solution to the Dublin dominance of the intercounty game, and for arguments sake, we will say splitting them is off the table.

OldMrBrennan83

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Joe Dog

Bonniedog wrote: »

I'm not the one deluding myself.

I think you are by claiming that 50% or more of Dublins population are not irish.

MayoAreMagic

Patww79 wrote: »

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But how can they physically do that when operating at such a disadvantage? At what point do you draw the line there and say ok, the gap is now simply too big to surmount?

Also, re the second part, Id point out that the facts suggest Dublin were artificially put up to that level in the first place.

Stoner

Don't feed it men least another thread is taken down his usual road.

OldMrBrennan83

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martingriff

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

To get the thing back on track, I'd ask if anyone has any idea for a solution to the Dublin dominance of the intercounty game, and for arguments sake, we will say splitting them is off the table.

I bet you were not looking for Dublin to be split from 1995 to 2011 were you. Another team will come to the fore. Rather then trying to split Dublin maybe the GAA could allocate there monies from worst counties to best and bringing them up. A novel idea perhaps. This from a Clare man who love to see someone else win it.

MayoAreMagic

martingriff wrote: »

I bet you were not looking for Dublin to be split from 1995 to 2011 were you. Another team will come to the fore. Rather then trying to split Dublin maybe the GAA could allocate there monies from worst counties to best and bringing them up. A novel idea perhaps. This from a Clare man who love to see someone else win it.

No more than I am looking for Cork or Antrim to be split now, for the simple reason that it isn't having an averse massive effect on the premier intercounty competition... You would have to be a pretty mean-spirited individual to want to split up a county just for the sake of it, wouldn't you?

The thing is, the money is being well spent on those who need it in Dublin. So if you allocate the monies elsewhere, the kids in Dublin have to go without... I don't think that is the answer, i.e. choke the game out of kids in Dublin so they aren't as good as the lads down the country... I would consider that a very backward approach.

liogairmhordain

ProudDUB wrote: »

Complete bollocks.

Dublin has always had a much, much bigger population than any other county in the country.

When the GAA was founded, the population of County Cork (495,000) was bigger than the population of County Dublin (419,000).
Source: 1881 census

OldMrBrennan83

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DJIMI TRARORE

The dub cycle of dominance has in leinster probably 3/4 years and All Ireland 1-2,after that some other team will have their time,as regard improvements,less physicality would be a start,it's 80% hits and 20% football at the moment and unfortunately hurling has gone down the same route in the last 5-8 years

BarryD2

martingriff wrote: »

Rather then trying to split Dublin maybe the GAA could allocate there monies from worst counties to best and bringing them up.

The GAA would want to have deep pockets so, because the root of the problem is much wider than simply facilities. When you have local parish teams amalgamating so as to be able to field teams, you're shrinking and in decline. Maybe lads were once happy to stick about but now it's off to Aus and the States.

People in Dublin just don't realise how lopsided the country is getting in all sorts of ways. Sure you can only put 15 out on the pitch, but Dublin seems to have great strength and depth at the moment with a conveyor of talent.

Maybe the Dubs & their supporters will get bored winning in a few years. Then they'll decide to split and subsequent finals will be the Northsiders v Southsiders.

But apart from splitting, another possible solution is an AI open draw, no seeding, straight knockout competition. At least that way if the Dubs had an off day in the 1st or 2nd round, they'd be gone for good. Which would open it up for other counties. As it is, the present competition seems structured to ensure that the top counties don't suffer from any falters and can get back in.

seligehgit

Mod Warning

Can we please cease the descent of this thread into a discussion on the minutiae of Dublin county's demographics,you can consult the 2016 national census re same.This thread is a discussion on "Improvements that are needed in the GAA".

In a similar fashion can we ensure it does'nt descend into the usual fractious tit for tat SOLELY focussing on Dublin GAA.Please keep it civil.

Thanks.

martingriff

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

No more than I am looking for Cork or Antrim to be split now, for the simple reason that it isn't having an averse massive effect on the premier intercounty competition... You would have to be a pretty mean-spirited individual to want to split up a county just for the sake of it, wouldn't you?


The thing is, the money is being well spent on those who need it in Dublin. So if you allocate the monies elsewhere, the kids in Dublin have to go without... I don't think that is the answer, i.e. choke the game out of kids in Dublin so they aren't as good as the lads down the country... I would consider that a very backward approach.

There having an effect cause there the best at the moment as the Ulster teams were in the 90's Kerry teams in there invincible years. You problem is there winning and your team is not. You call it mean spirited to split up a county but that is what you want you want to split a team up for the sake of bringing them down to your level while you should be looking to do the opposite. The way to do that is investment by the GAA by splitting the money up between all counties but helping out those at the bottom a bit more then those at the top

Was not thinking of not spending money in Dublin. Of course you have to keep doing that however instead of doing money top down go top up. Plus I say Dublin get's a fair bit from sponsors more then the smnaller teams. Remember when the GAA wanted to get Dublin hurling up they start initiatives by the GAA and the sport rose up they just need to do that in a country wide scale.

Coillte_Bhoy

BarryD2 wrote: »

The GAA would want to have deep pockets so, because the root of the problem is much wider than simply facilities. When you have local parish teams amalgamating so as to be able to field teams, you're shrinking and in decline. Maybe lads were once happy to stick about but now it's off to Aus and the States.

People in Dublin just don't realise how lopsided the country is getting in all sorts of ways. Sure you can only put 15 out on the pitch, but Dublin seems to have great strength and depth at the moment with a conveyor of talent.

Maybe the Dubs & their supporters will get bored winning in a few years. Then they'll decide to split and subsequent finals will be the Northsiders v Southsiders.

But apart from splitting, another possible solution is an AI open draw, no seeding, straight knockout competition. At least that way if the Dubs had an off day in the 1st or 2nd round, they'd be gone for good. Which would open it up for other counties. As it is, the present competition seems structured to ensure that the top counties don't suffer from any falters and can get back in.

Bollocks, the provincial draws in Munster and Leinster favour the top teams, not so in Connacht and Ulster

martingriff

BarryD2 wrote: »

The GAA would want to have deep pockets so, because the root of the problem is much wider than simply facilities. When you have local parish teams amalgamating so as to be able to field teams, you're shrinking and in decline. Maybe lads were once happy to stick about but now it's off to Aus and the States.

People in Dublin just don't realise how lopsided the country is getting in all sorts of ways. Sure you can only put 15 out on the pitch, but Dublin seems to have great strength and depth at the moment with a conveyor of talent.

Maybe the Dubs & their supporters will get bored winning in a few years. Then they'll decide to split and subsequent finals will be the Northsiders v Southsiders.

But apart from splitting, another possible solution is an AI open draw, no seeding, straight knockout competition. At least that way if the Dubs had an off day in the 1st or 2nd round, they'd be gone for good. Which would open it up for other counties. As it is, the present competition seems structured to ensure that the top counties don't suffer from any falters and can get back in.

Sorry but the decline in GAA in other counties and I see it in mine is not Dublin's fault and should not be split due to that. As for the GAA and there pockets they are pretty deep when they want them to be. I am open for an open draw I have no problem with that. Just remember if you want it back to if you lose your out like it was before then all teams will be playing that way. All I hear is bring them down to our level

BarryD2

Whatever, but I suppose it depends on what is most important to the GAA. If it's the local club teams, then probably all is dandy apart from the oft quoted issue around scheduling fixtures & shrinking numbers.

But if it's the county competitions scene, then clearly any 'improvements that are needed in the GAA' must also consider the relative strength of counties and address any imbalances that are growing.

Without wishing to prolong the discussion, it was to address precisely this problem of growth, that Dublin County and Corporation were split into 4 local authorities a number of years ago. And the same reasons apply to redrawing constituency boundaries and number of TD seats every few years. And the same thing happens in the GAA in reverse, in rural areas with clubs combining. So if it's good enough for everyone else, why not the GAA county structure? It seems a valid question. Though obviously it upsets some who think they're being got at.

And whilst I appreciate the argument of dragging other teams down to a level, surely the better thing is to have a more even level regardless of standards to some extent. That keeps games and competitions interesting and engaging.

martingriff

BarryD2 wrote: »

Whatever, but I suppose it depends on what is most important to the GAA. If it's the local club teams, then probably all is dandy apart from the oft quoted issue around scheduling fixtures & shrinking numbers.

But if it's the county competitions scene, then clearly any 'improvements that are needed in the GAA' must also consider the relative strength of counties and address any imbalances that are growing.

Without wishing to prolong the discussion, it was to address precisely this problem of growth, that Dublin County and Corporation were split into 4 local authorities a number of years ago. And the same reasons apply to redrawing constituency boundaries and number of TD seats every few years. And the same thing happens in the GAA in reverse, in rural areas with clubs combining. So if it's good enough for everyone else, why not the GAA county structure? It seems a valid question. Though obviously it upsets some who think they're being got at.

And whilst I appreciate the argument of dragging other teams down to a level, surely the better thing is to have a more even level regardless of standards to some extent. That keeps games and competitions interesting and engaging.

Because its county teams not Local Authority teams. If your suggestion was taken up if the City or county councils were to come back then Cork, Limerick Waterford Galway and others would have to split. Lets not go on if they brought back town councils. Now you will say I am been ridiculous and yes yes I am but so is yours to slip it by Local authorities

TrueGael

martingriff wrote: »

Because its county teams not Local Authority teams. If your suggestion was taken up if the City or county councils were to come back then Cork, Limerick Waterford Galway and others would have to split. Lets not go on if they brought back town councils. Now you will say I am been ridiculous and yes yes I am but so is yours to slip it by Local authorities

But there such entity as County Dublin anymore, it ceased to exist in the mid 90s( hence the formation of counties Fingal, DLR and South Dublin as well as Dublin City) for the very simple reason that the population was getting too big for just 1 council to take care of and the population is far far bigger now and will continue to do so. Expected to grow to 2 million by 2040 and Hoover up an even greater chunk of the population

If the GAA have any interest in preventing its Golden Goose becoming an irrelevant competition there is only one option. Those 4 teams would all be in the Top 10 on population, resources, economic strength and market capacity so there is no room to suggest that they'd be weak. I mean we're always told of the amazing adminstration up there spmIm sure they'd have no problem of competing in an even playing pitch

martingriff

TrueGael wrote: »

But there such entity as County Dublin anymore, it ceased to exist in the mid 90s( hence the formation of counties Fingal, DLR and South Dublin as well as Dublin City) for the very simple reason that the population was getting too big for just 1 council to take care of and the population is far far bigger now and will continue to do so. Expected to grow to 2 million by 2040 and Hoover up an even greater chunk of the population

If the GAA have any interest in preventing its Golden Goose becoming an irrelevant competition there is only one option. Those 4 teams would all be in the Top 10 on population, resources, economic strength and market capacity so there is no room to suggest that they'd be weak. I mean we're always told of the amazing adminstration up there spmIm sure they'd have no problem of competing in an even playing pitch

So there is 29 counties in the Rep of Ireland?????

TrueGael

martingriff wrote: »

So there is 29 counties in the Rep of Ireland?????

Just read the first sentence in each

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%BAn_Laoghaire%E2%80%93Rathdown

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Dublin

So there you have it 3 county councils and a populous city on top , that is what what everyone is competing against

4 heavily populated counties combined into 1 with all players living within a stones throw of training (No 3/4 hours trek across the country for 8/9 months of the year)

backed by reams of massive companies and most important the GAA itself the supposed custodian of the game nationally

Dyr

Deleted User wrote: »

Will Dublin play off any club games above even in the meantime?

Will they f**k, won't be a hurl swung til September.

nice_guy80

martingriff wrote: »

Sorry but the decline in GAA in other counties and I see it in mine is not Dublin's fault and should not be split due to that. As for the GAA and there pockets they are pretty deep when they want them to be. I am open for an open draw I have no problem with that. Just remember if you want it back to if you lose your out like it was before then all teams will be playing that way. All I hear is bring them down to our level

Nobody ever said that
Other counties deserve equitable funding to Dublin

No other county can bring in a huge sponsorship package like AIG on top of all the money they get direct from HQ
They've every advantage in terms of facilities, players studying and getting jobs in their own county and plenty of money to develop players