Legal action against Boards.ie forum.

TireeTerror

Im not trying to be a smart ass here, I would just like to properly understand the situation.

Several times Ive seen various posters in threads being warned by a moderator due to a fear that Boards might get into some kind of trouble for allowing members to speak about things such as accessing torrent sites, or avoiding paying taxes, or buying green diesel or whatever.

How likely is it that Boards would get in trouble? Are boards legally responsible for content posted up by its members? I understand that there are laws regarding things like child porn or whatever and they probably would get in trouble for that. But is it actually illegal to talk about ways to avoid taxes, use torrents etc? If it is illegal, what would the charge against Boards be and what could the punishment be if found guilty of breaking said law?

What are the laws in Ireland regarding freedom of speech, and how does it apply to a private forum?

I would imagine if all manner of illegal activities were being discussed, even bragged about, it may well just change the very nature of the site. There are many mods about though, so they could keep conversations in check regarding decency etc. I just find it so weird that I couldnt discuss the best way to access the piratebay website purely because ISPs are now preventing access to the site. I know Im not allowed to post links to mirror sites etc, but I just want to really understand why I cannot do such things, when it wouldnt take anyone more than 5 minutes to learn all about it using Google.

There are loads of dodgy forums out there dealing with all manner of illegal activities, and I dont see them being shut down.

Im sure many people have an opinion on this subject, but if possible, I would like a reply from someone from Boards themselves to give an accurate answer, rather than just assumptions.

Regards

Dravokivich

Boards is seen as a publisher and can be held accountable for libel claims.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Boards can be sued for defamation,prosecuted under Incitement to Hatred, and found in contempt of Court for revealing details of ongoing cases which might be prejudicial,or naming individuals whose identities are protected.
Thats just a few instances where they could be get into legal trouble.

Boards.ie: Nicola

Dravokivich wrote: »

Boards is seen as a publisher and can be held accountable for libel claims.

Technically that's not true, we don't publish any of the content on the site but yes can be held liable if we do not take the correct action when notified of problematic content. Hence why we say we operate on a 'notice and take down basis', in order to take action we need to first be notified.

We get about 5/6 legal threats a week and have to treat every single one as being potentially serious. Generally most alleged issues are defamation (Defamation Act 2009) but we also investigate breaches of copyright and inflammatory content under the Incitement to Hatred Act (1989).

We are the biggest site of our kind in Ireland and as we rank so highly in Google, we are a lot more visible than other sites and as such, something of a target.

This is our official response:

Boards.ie is an information society service provider within the meaning of the Electronic Commerce Directive, which prohibits the imposition of any duty on us to monitor the information which we store. We are not responsible for and do not pre-moderate users’ posts. This is apparent from our Terms of Use. We ask browsers and users of our site to notify us immediately if they believe content on Boards.ie contains defamatory statements or material which infringes their intellectual property rights. We then use all reasonable endeavours to remove the defamatory and/or infringing content complained about within a reasonable period of time. As outlined above this is strictly on a without prejudice basis and without admission of liability.

GLaDOS

OP probably wasn't around for the old days of 'NO DISCUSSION OF MCD'

LoLth

Also, if a mod sees something he/she knows from experience is going to cause problems they have the authority to take it down without legal notification -

eg: I post a picture of a semi-nekkid person. Mod can remove without first being contacted by the subject of the picture to protest against its public exposure.

so, if notified, Mod/admin has to take it down within an acceptable timeframe or boards is basically saying "well we think its ok" and then the legal stuff starts. Also, it should be noted that notification has to come from someone in a position to object to the content. (depending on the situation of course).

if no notification (reported post, PM to mod - that was read by the mod! , etc) then its mods discretion and best judgement. A mod may get it wrong every so often but their ability to make the right call for their forum is central to boards.ie's success and its not something I think any mod or admin likes to be asked to second guess.

LoLth

TireeTerror wrote: »

What are the laws in Ireland regarding freedom of speech, and how does it apply to a private forum?

this is a privately owned forum and as such there is no right to free speech. A user agrees to terms and conditions when they sign up, in return for the ability to post to this site, they agree to abide by those rules and restriction. Even though "freedom of speech" is quite a common argument used by users that cannot or will not abide by the rules, Boards.ie has never , ever , said users have freedom to say whatever they want on this site but we have said the opposite quite often

There are loads of dodgy forums out there dealing with all manner of illegal activities, and I dont see them being shut down.

Im sure many people have an opinion on this subject, but if possible, I would like a reply from someone from Boards themselves to give an accurate answer, rather than just assumptions.

Regards

there are loads of , legal, tasteful-as-possible, pornography sites out there but you dont find it on boards (or at least, not easily).

Its part of what makes boards what it is. some forums have an anything goes policy and they quickly become a stomping ground for trolls and muppets and there's a general race to the bottom in terms of tolerance and civility. Sure, the site is useful, it has links and descriptions and instructions but it also has flame wars, staunch opinions, blind links to unlawful and/or indecent material, aggressive fighting rather than discussion and , more often than not, a user base that resorts to namecalling/insulting/general abuse to "win" and somehow improve their standing within the pack.

By all means, if you want to learn about torrent sites and how to decode the latest version of MP4 codec so X or Y DVDRIP will play on your XBOX, take the 5 minutes and use google to find what you want. Then, when you feel like having a chat and being part of a community, drop in here. Just leave the link at the door

kaimera

ScienceNerd wrote: »

OP probably wasn't around for the old days of 'NO DISCUSSION OF MCD'

In the 'old days' it wouldnt have happened and or mattered.

TireeTerror

ScienceNerd wrote: »

OP probably wasn't around for the old days of 'NO DISCUSSION OF MCD'

Ive only been a member for 2 years since I moved to Ireland. Had to open a new account recently due to having used my company name as my username.

What is the MCD? It sounds exciting!

GLaDOS

TireeTerror wrote: »

Ive only been a member for 2 years since I moved to Ireland. Had to open a new account recently due to having used my company name as my username.

What is the MCD? It sounds exciting!

Basically MCD (The Event Promotor) took legal action against Boards because of posters criticising them regarding Oxegen one year. For the duration of the legal proceedings, all talk of MCD was banned completely and there was a sticky at the top of every forum saying so.

That's my recollection of it anyway, could have gotten some of the details wrong.

ScienceNerd

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Basically MCD (The Event Promotor) took legal action against Boards because of posters criticising them regarding Oxegen one year. For the duration of the legal proceedings, all talk of MCD was banned completely and there was a sticky at the top of every forum saying so.

That's my recollection of it anyway, could have gotten some of the details wrong.

Yeah, that was an interesting time alright.

Overheal

Yeah, even in forums with no moderation like the old feedback and thunderdome. You could personally abuse someone or respond to arguments with nonsense cat pictures but SO HELP ME GOD IF YOU TALK ABOUT MCD!!!

The Hill Billy

I haz fond memrys of Old Feedback... * sigh *

Sparks

LoLth wrote: »

this is a privately owned forum and as such there is no right to free speech.

Or to put it slightly differently, you have a right to free speech under the Irish Constitution, but nowhere in that document is there mention of anyone having a legal duty to either:
(a) provide you (at their own expense and exposure to legal liability) with an internet soapbox to stand on while you exercise that right; or
(b) listen to you

So if a mod deletes your post, it's not an infringment on your right to free speech, unless the mod calls round to your house and cuts off everything you could use to exercise that right (fingers, toes, tongue, eyeballs, etc, etc, etc). You can still go anywhere else and exercise that right. Tweet, Facebook it, start a blog, stand on the corner waving a cat and screaming, or all of the above (though the cat will make it harder to type).

oscarBravo

Sparks wrote: »

...stand on the corner waving a cat and screaming, or all of the above (though the cat will make it harder to type).

It may, however, facilitate screaming if you're waving it.

Sparks

Not to mention that it'll help your youtube video to go viral. Property crisis over -- Irish person finds room to swing a cat...

4zn76tysfajdxp

Please let the cat picture nostalgia die. That and the bloomin' Gathering Cards makes me think that Feedback is also the wizened old Boardsie nursing home forum.

Insect Overlord

Holden Bumpy Tenderloin wrote: »

Please let the cat picture nostalgia die. That and the bloomin' Gathering Cards makes me think that Feedback is also the wizened old Boardsie nursing home forum.

You can't fight it. You've been here since 2006. Accept it!

One of us! One of us!

kaimera

now I miss old feedback. :-(

cast pics used properly were awesome.

amp test

Steve

kaimera wrote: »

now I miss old feedback. :-(

cast pics used properly were awesome.

amp test

I still remember the day they were banned.

RIP longcat.

Overheal

I accept no responsibility for that. Cats made me do it.

Mr. G

TireeTerror wrote: »

Ive only been a member for 2 years since I moved to Ireland. Had to open a new account recently due to having used my company name as my username.

What is the MCD? It sounds exciting!

http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054965633

http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056820593

TireeTerror

Mr. G wrote: »

http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054965633

http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056820593

WOW! Thats some reading. Id love to comment more, but Im sure it will be boring bringing up the past.

Dav

It's not terribly exciting now, but it was a scary time for the site back then because we didn't know where it might go. The reality of course is that MCD didn't have a leg to stand on, they were suing us for someone's identity - these are details that we cannot legally hand over without the correct data protection act paperwork.

Long story short, MCD didn't bring us to court but had filed the initial paperwork to do so. We stopped all discussion of MCD and related events out of a concern that someone would say something defamatory and that they would have further grounds for legal action against us.

Time went on, MCD's management changed, they didn't appear to actually want to pursue the case and then a landmark legal case in Ireland happened; the courts ruled in favour of a website (BetFair) that hosted a forum section in a defamation case by agreeing that they had acted responsibly and as an e-commerce service provider and a conduit for the content were not responsible for it's initial publication.

This was I think the most important internet related legal decision that's been made in Ireland to date - it means that people who post things on websites are responsible for what they say and the website has a responsibility to act when notified of any potentially illegal content rather than to be expected to monitor and approve all it's content.

When that decision was made, we pretty much dropped the MCD discussion ban immediately because we now had a legal defence should anything happen.

It's worth pointing out though that MCD never "stopped" suing us - they have let the statute of limitations expire and didn't follow up their initial filing with the courts.

blah blah whatever

Dav wrote: »

This was I think the most important internet related legal decision that's been made in Ireland to date - it means that people who post things on websites are responsible for what they say and the website has a responsibility to act when notified of any potentially illegal content rather than to be expected to monitor and approve all it's content.

Then why is the site being sanitised to within an inch of it's life and wrapped up tighter than a cats arse when you have this to fall back on??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Have you Usage stats/graphs for the last few years handy there? Throw them up.

Insect Overlord

Jaysus, Merc, you're putting no effort at all into the names these days!

blah blah whatever

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Jaysus, Merc, you're putting no effort at all into the names these days!

SSSSSh, Buffy will be along in awhile.

With regards to that ruling, Dav; could that relate to the discussion of pirated materials and torrent sites? Or does it relate to just defamation? Best I can tell, it's a legal grey area right now.

Dav

Well the founders made a choice many years ago to simply not allow discussion of those sorts of topics on the grounds that there's Google and a million other sites to discuss these things and it helps to show that they were serious about keeping the content of the site legal.

We stick with that these days because we still want to do that and whilst there are those who seem to think that "anything goes" on this site, we know that this couldn't be further from the truth. I often wonder what the people who are scandalised by what they've read would make of /b/?

Sarky

Dav wrote: »

I often wonder what the people who are scandalised by what they've read would make of /b/?

Artist's impression.

Cody Pomeray

Interesting legal question might be

"To what extent are moderators responsible for their own comments, even when commenting outside of their own respective forums?"